Wanting to fact-check Flu vaccine claim

[missmuffet]

15 minutes ago, other one said:

you should read up on it for you will find that there are different mercury compounds used for different things in the world and they are not all harmful to humans or animals.

Mercury is a naturally occurring element found in the earth's crust, air, soil, and water.  Two types of mercury to which people may be exposed -- methylmercury and ethylmercury -- are very different.

Methylmercury is the type of mercury found in certain kinds of fish. At high exposure levels methylmercury can be toxic to people. In the United States, federal guidelines keep as much methylmercury as possible out of the environment and food, but over a lifetime, everyone is exposed to some methylmercury.

Thimerosal contains ethylmercury, which is cleared from the human body more quickly than methylmercury, and is therefore less likely to cause any harm

I've gotten a flue shot every year since I was in the military in 1968 and have had no problems with the mercury in the vaccines.

I got mine yesterday(high dose). Everyone over 65 should have a high dose. Your protective immunity does not take place until 2 weeks after you have been immunized. So you need to be careful because in that time frame you can get the flu.

[other one]

Just now, missmuffet said:

I got mine yesterday(high dose). Everyone over 65 should have a high dose. Your protective immunity does not take place until 2 weeks after you have been immunized. So you need to be careful because in that time frame you can get the flu.

we will get ours this week for we are going on a travel in October and we need the protection....

[missmuffet]

4 minutes ago, other one said:

if you are perfectly healthy that might be ok, but if you have any kind of respiratory problem or immune deficiency, that is not wise.  It is estimated that over 36,000 people die each year from complications that come about from having the flu.....  not the flu itself, but asthma attacks, flu that ends up with Pneumonia or people with COPD problems....    One never knows what bacteria or other serious virus will attack you when you are down with the flu.....

You are more likely to have a reaction to the egg proteins in it than harm from the mercury....   many many people are allergic to eggs and they can't take the vaccines at all.

A couple of months ago I got the Prevnar pneumonia vaccine. It is strongly recommended for those over 65. I have had pneumonia three times so I am also more vulnerable.

[missmuffet]

1 minute ago, other one said:

we will get ours this week for we are going on a travel in October and we need the protection....

Yes, good idea.

[nebula]

1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

Are you for or against flu vaccine nebula?

Uncertain.

[nebula]

What about the other things besides Mercury?

2. People with egg allergies are contraindicated.

*Are people warned about this? 

3. "Safety and effectiveness have not been established in pregnant women, nursing mothers and children under four. There are no adequate and well-controlled studies in pregnant women. This vaccine should be used during pregnancy only if clearly needed. It is not known whether fluvarin is excreted in human milk."

*Are pregnant woman informed of this?
*Are parents encouraged or discouraged from administering flu vaccine to children under four?

4. "Fluvarin has not been evaluated for carcinogenic or mutagenic potential, or for impairment of fertility."

*Creepy

5. "Antibody response is low in the geriatric population."

*Does that mean the geriatric population has a greater chance of becoming ill off of the vaccine? Or not?

6. "Serious reactions, including anaphylactic shock, have been observed."

*Are people warned of this?

8. "The vaccine has been associated with an increased frequency of Guillain-Barre syndrome."

*Are people warned about this?

[missmuffet]

4 minutes ago, nebula said:

What about the other things besides Mercury?

2. People with egg allergies are contraindicated.

*Are people warned about this? 

3. "Safety and effectiveness have not been established in pregnant women, nursing mothers and children under four. There are no adequate and well-controlled studies in pregnant women. This vaccine should be used during pregnancy only if clearly needed. It is not known whether fluvarin is excreted in human milk."

*Are pregnant woman informed of this?
*Are parents encouraged or discouraged from administering flu vaccine to children under four?

4. "Fluvarin has not been evaluated for carcinogenic or mutagenic potential, or for impairment of fertility."

*Creepy

5. "Antibody response is low in the geriatric population."

*Does that mean the geriatric population has a greater chance of becoming ill off of the vaccine? Or not?

6. "Serious reactions, including anaphylactic shock, have been observed."

*Are people warned of this?

8. "The vaccine has been associated with an increased frequency of Guillain-Barre syndrome."

*Are people warned about this?

Oh yes. When you get your flu shot their are several forms to be read and filled out. They make it very clear who and who should not get the flu shot.

[ayin jade]

2 hours ago, nebula said:

Me: "May I please have the package insert for the flu vaccine?"
Rite-Aid Pharmacist: "Why?"
Me: "So I can read it."
P: "Which one?"
Me: "The one advertised with the little banners on every aisle."
P: "I will print you the information sheet."
Me: "No, that's not the same thing."
P: "What do you want to know? I can tell you."
Me: "I would just like to read the whole thing before I consider getting one...side effects, contraindications, effectiveness, ingredients like mercury."
P: "I don't think I have any. Let me check. (checks) Sorry, I can't give you one until the box is empty, because it has to stay in the box. And there isn't any thimerisol in the single dose flu shot any more. I can print you the information sheet."
Pharmacy co-worker with big smile at me: "Hi, I found one." (hands insert to P, hands to me).
***
Here are some things in the insert not on the store's sheet:
1. The single dose vial contains mercury at 1mcg (This is called a "trace amount" by the industry.) (The multi-vial contains 25 mcg.)
2. People with egg allergies are contraindicated.
3. "Safety and effectiveness have not been established in pregnant women, nursing mothers and children under four. There are no adequate and well-controlled studies in pregnant women. This vaccine should be used during pregnancy only if clearly needed. It is not known whether fluvarin is excreted in human milk."
4. "Fluvarin has not been evaluated for carcinogenic or mutagenic potential, or for impairment of fertility."
5. "Antibody response is low in the geriatric population."
6. "Serious reactions, including anaphylactic shock, have been observed."
7. "There are no data to assess the concomitant administration of flu vaccine with other vaccines."
8. "The vaccine has been associated with an increased frequency of Guillain-Barre syndrome."
9. "In some studies, fluvarin protected up to 50% of subjects."

Yes, I went back and showed the pharmacist the trace amount and he was genuinely puzzled, kept staring at it and scratching his head, thanked me for the information.

With love to those who read this far. Please share.

This womans "testimony" sounds more like an "I hate pharmaceutical industry". 

Ok lets start with the package insert. The pharmacist needs to keep it handy as long as he is dispensing it so he can look up something on it when he needs to. But you can get package insert online on the fda website. 

Lets take each one by number. #1 That is a miniscule amount of mercury. There is more mercury, far more, in a can of tuna fish that people eat regularly than in the vaccine. If you are truly concerned about the mercury in the multidose vial, there is a single dose available without mercury in it. 

#2 The pharmacist will ask about allergies prior to vaccinating someone, to prevent problems with egg allergies. Thats because the vaccine is made using eggs. 

#3 To make the claim that it is safe and effective, they would have to do a study with kids and pregnant women. Virtually no medication on the market can claim that they are safe and effective in kids or pregnant women. No one is willing to do a study on kids or pregnant women. 

#4 Again, the manufacturer would have to undertake a study in people for those conditions. Few are willing to do it, especially for a seasonal vaccine. 

#5 Commonly known. Its why elderly usually get high dose vaccine. They are also more susceptible to death by various infections such as pneumonia or flu. 

#6 Anaphylaxis could happen with an egg allergy if someone either doesnt know it or neglects to mention it when asked about an egg allergy. By law, they have to mention this even if the rate of occurrence is one person in a million. 

#7 Again, no one has undertaken to have a study done to show if getting this with another vaccine alters its effectiveness. 

#8 A miniscule increase. But taking nsaids with the flu can increase the rate of guillian barre syndrome. 

#9 Its clear that getting the flu vaccine helps more than hurts. Look at the swine flu from a few years ago. Mortality rates in mexico were much higher (they were not vaccinated) than they were in the us. 

 

[other one]

16 minutes ago, nebula said:

What about the other things besides Mercury?

2. People with egg allergies are contraindicated.

*Are people warned about this? 

3. "Safety and effectiveness have not been established in pregnant women, nursing mothers and children under four. There are no adequate and well-controlled studies in pregnant women. This vaccine should be used during pregnancy only if clearly needed. It is not known whether fluvarin is excreted in human milk."

*Are pregnant woman informed of this?
*Are parents encouraged or discouraged from administering flu vaccine to children under four?

4. "Fluvarin has not been evaluated for carcinogenic or mutagenic potential, or for impairment of fertility."

*Creepy

5. "Antibody response is low in the geriatric population."

*Does that mean the geriatric population has a greater chance of becoming ill off of the vaccine? Or not?

6. "Serious reactions, including anaphylactic shock, have been observed."

*Are people warned of this?

8. "The vaccine has been associated with an increased frequency of Guillain-Barre syndrome."

*Are people warned about this?

My doctor warned me about all this many years ago.....    I usually get the shots at the VA or Walgreens and both places have me sign a form that I understand those things you are mentioning Neb.

 

I don't have a problem with people not wanting to take the vaccine shots, but I do have a problem with people telling everyone that they shouldn't.   It's like any other drug with side effects, one has to guage the good with the possible bad...

[ayin jade]

11 minutes ago, nebula said:

What about the other things besides Mercury?

2. People with egg allergies are contraindicated.

*Are people warned about this? 

Jade says: Yes they are at the time of administration, before its given. 

3. "Safety and effectiveness have not been established in pregnant women, nursing mothers and children under four. There are no adequate and well-controlled studies in pregnant women. This vaccine should be used during pregnancy only if clearly needed. It is not known whether fluvarin is excreted in human milk."

*Are pregnant woman informed of this?

Jade says: see my earlier post about the lack of studies done on pregnant women or kids. However their ob's recommend it. 

*Are parents encouraged or discouraged from administering flu vaccine to children under four?

Jade says: the pediatrician makes the recommendations. Kids die from the flu just as much as elderly die from it. 

4. "Fluvarin has not been evaluated for carcinogenic or mutagenic potential, or for impairment of fertility."

*Creepy

Jade says: see above response. Doing studies cost money as well as ethical considerations. To perform these studies, they have to administer in doses to deliberately try and prove carcinogenicity or mutagenicity (genetic changes). No one will undertake those studies for ethical reasons. Since the studies are not done, they have to mention the lack of it. 

5. "Antibody response is low in the geriatric population."

*Does that mean the geriatric population has a greater chance of becoming ill off of the vaccine? Or not?

Jade says: no, it only means they should get the high dose version. Vaccines work by getting your body to have an immune response to it. If someone has a low antibody response, then the vaccine doesnt work as well. Hence, the higher dose vaccine.  

6. "Serious reactions, including anaphylactic shock, have been observed."

*Are people warned of this?

Jade says: Sigh. Yes. You do realize that any med you take, any food you eat, even the water you drink, can cause serious reactions. 

8. "The vaccine has been associated with an increased frequency of Guillain-Barre syndrome."

*Are people warned about this?

Jade says: It is part of the warnings given at the time of administration. I just asked my hubby, who routinely gives flu vaccines.

If it makes any difference to you, my hubby and I get flu vaccines. We are both pharmacists. I have known folks, young ones in their 20s, who have died or almost died from the flu. Its not something to take lightly. Certain professions or populations of people are considered high risk for getting the flu. You are a teacher. You are considered high risk. Especially with other health issues. Discuss with your doctor.