Do you view life through the "either/or" or the "both/and" lens?

[GoldenEagle]

On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 2:48 PM, Ezra said:

GE,

Perhaps we can have fellowship with old earth creationists up to a point.  

But then the question will arise for them to answer "Do you believe that the Ten Commandments were literally written by the finger of God?"  Let's say they agree.  

Then the next question would be "If you agree, then why do you deny what is in the fourth commandment (Exodus 20:8-11)?" since the fourth commandment demolishes old earth creationism.  

So they either abandon their belief, or fellowship is not possible. To question the validity and veracity of the Ten Commandments is to question the whole of Scripture. I trust you can see that there are no *non-essentials*, and genuine fellowship is based upon unity of doctrine as well as unity of faith.

 

On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 2:52 PM, Ezra said:

To love God and to serve Him is to firstly believe Him and trust Him.  If we cannot trust Him for the creation account, then we have a problem with loving and trusting God in all other areas. Christ accepted the creation account as totally historical and correct.  So must all His disciples.

At what point do we not have fellowship with other Believers because of their view of creation? What does that mean exactly? Not having fellowship...

People must all believe as we do or we cannot have fellowship with them?

Do you not discuss or engage those who believe differently than you?

No, I'm sorry but I do not see there being no non-essentials. What I do see is that everyone must agree with me to be a true Believer in Jesus. Perhaps a misunderstand you?

Must all His disciples accept the creation account as totally historical and correct? I'm not so sure. How do you account for the millions of Believers who do not have a Young Earth Creationist view then?

God bless,
GE

[GoldenEagle]

On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 2:54 PM, *Deidre* said:

I think it depends on the topic. And it also depends on how people state things...if someone states something as ''I believe that Jesus is not the Lord and Savior.'' I can accept that statement, because it's their opinion. If someone were to say ''You are wrong, Jesus is not the Lord and Savior,'' then I'd point out why I feel they are wrong. So, I think context is everything, and so are the subjects you are speaking about. 

Hiya D  

At what point do we say "I cannot be around you or talk to you"?

God bless,
GE

[GoldenEagle]

On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 2:10 PM, GoldenEagle said:

How do you view the term accept? How do you define the term?

How do you view the term unity? How do you define the term?

Because from what I can tell we clearly have different views of the the use of the term "legalism". It occurred to me we may not have the same definition of these words. 

God bless,
GE

@Butero see questions above.

[FresnoJoe]

1 hour ago, GoldenEagle said:

@Butero see questions above.

Legally

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; Romans 3:25

God Is Love

To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Romans 3:26

And Without His Love

Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:27-28

We Are Done

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:35-36

[Dr3ams]

I see things as black or white, right or wrong. An example is when I'm asked to rate something, choosing a number between 1 and 10. I can't, just not wired that way. Either I like something or I don't...that means I choose a 1 or a 10, nothing in between. 

[Ezra]

2 hours ago, GoldenEagle said:

At what point do we not have fellowship with other Believers because of their view of creation? What does that mean exactly? Not having fellowship..

Fellowship means walking in God's light (1 John 1:1-10). God's light is not only His presence but also His written Word -- "thy Word is Truth" and "the entrance of thy Word giveth Light".  

If someone comes along and says Adam or Jonah were not real historical persons, or Moses was not really the writer of the Torah, in spite of what the Bible says, then they have departed from the truth. Therefore Christians cannot have fellowship with those who pick and choose what they will believe and what they will not.

2 hours ago, GoldenEagle said:

Do you not discuss or engage those who believe differently than you?

We can engage in discussions but at some point there will be a parting of the ways. "Can two walk together, unless they be agreed?" (Amos 3:3). 

2 hours ago, GoldenEagle said:

How do you account for the millions of Believers who do not have a Young Earth Creationist view then?

I doubt very much that there are millions who question the creation account if they are genuine believers. Even in the general population, most people do not really believe in evolution. And old earth creationists are probably a minority.

[*Deidre*]

16 hours ago, GoldenEagle said:

Hiya D  

At what point do we say "I cannot be around you or talk to you"?

God bless,
GE

Unfortunately, I back away from people a lot, without maybe giving them a fair chance to explain things. I’m getting better at that. I think it’s fair to avoid people who don’t treat us well, and it’s obvious that they never will. It’s not like they’re having a bad day or something, but their behavior is such that they treat us like doormats or are mean spirited. I have a few Christian friends who treat me poorly, while some of my atheist friends treat me far kinder. I’m learning that saying one is a Christian doesn’t mean much – if those words aren’t backed up, then I tend to steer clear of those people. If we cross paths, I’m kind…but I don’t think that we need to keep people in our lives who are toxic or destructive to our well being.

[SHINY4UJESUS]

Golden, I do get your perspective on this; and I applaud your redirection to those things that proomote unity rather than disunity and discord. This is indicative of the denominational walls of separation amongst the Body in general. It is odd how often we can ignore Jesus' response when the disciples complained that others not of their group were preaching Christ. Jesus replied," Whoever is not against us is for our part." Folks this is the "same team concept," being presented here. Sure some have different traditions, different methods, but so long as it is the Word of God and message of Jesus as Lord and Savior being preached then the format is not an issue worth risking causeing even more separation.

I recommend that folks struggling to avoid debates over methodology and differing tradition, try prayerfully and meditatively reading: Romans 14 & 15; 1 Corinthians 8, 10, & 11:17-34. All these passages talk of how some worship differently, have differing focus in tradition and processes; but all equally have the same principle: to not judge or argue with others who see things differently, but to simply make effort to promote unity rather than discord.Paul said virtually the sme thing; that the worldly details matter little, so long as it is the message of Christ being crucified and risen that is being preached. Truly as a body we have swallowed the camel here while we strain at the gnat.

[FresnoJoe]

17 minutes ago, SHINY4UJESUS said:

Golden, I do get your perspective on this; and I applaud your redirection to those things that promote unity rather than disunity and discord. This is indicative of the denominational walls of separation among the Body in general. It is odd how often we can ignore Jesus' response when the disciples complained that others not of their group were preaching Christ. Jesus replied," Whoever is not against us is for our part." Folks this is the "same team concept," being presented here. Sure some have different traditions, different methods, but so long as it is the Word of God and message of Jesus as Lord and Savior being preached then the format is not an issue worth risking causeing even more separation.

I recommend that folks struggling to avoid debates over methodology and differing tradition, try prayerfully and meditatively reading: Romans 14 & 15; 1 Corinthians 8, 10, & 11:17-34. All these passages talk of how some worship differently, have differing focus in tradition and processes; but all equally have the same principle: to not judge or argue with others who see things differently, but to simply make effort to promote unity rather than discord.Paul said virtually the same thing; that the worldly details matter little, so long as it is the message of Christ being crucified and risen that is being preached. Truly as a body we have swallowed the camel here while we strain at the gnat.

The Sharpest

Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another. Proverbs 27:17 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)

Knife In The Drawer

Let us consider how to provoke one another to love and good works, Hebrews 10:24 (New Heart English Bible)

[GoldenEagle]

17 hours ago, Dr3ams said:

I see things as black or white, right or wrong. An example is when I'm asked to rate something, choosing a number between 1 and 10. I can't, just not wired that way. Either I like something or I don't...that means I choose a 1 or a 10, nothing in between. 

Hiya Dr3ams! I tend to look at things black or white as well. Even right or wrong too. Perhaps that is human nature?

Yet is this the best way to engage the world around us? Are those who believe differently than us simply to be discarded as wrong?

If I can only be either a brother or an enemy to those around me am I missing out on showing other's love and grace that can only come from God?

God bless,
GE