sabbath day

[JohnD]

1 hour ago, WailingWall said:

Trumps it?

EPH.2  [8] FOR BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED THROUGH FAITH;

You see whats in the writings of Paul

REV.14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND THE FAITH OF JESUS.

 

The law does not trump grace. They go together like a horse and carriage

Then we should be keeping the sacrificial law plus believing in Christ?

 

[coheir]

1 hour ago, WailingWall said:

I see ya left out the good stuff before verse 11

EPH.2  [5] Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)[6] And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:[7] That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.[8] FOR BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED THROUGH FAITH; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast. [10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which GOD HATH BEFORE ORDAINED THAT WE SHOULD WALK IN THEM.

It is by the grace of God that we are saved. Period. It is a free gift. But to whom is this free gift given? Verse 10 says that those people who will receive the free gift of grace will be walking in good works. What are these good works which GOD HATH BEFORE ORDAINED that "we must walk in"?

2 JOHN 1 [4] I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father. [5] And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. [6] And this is love, that WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, AS YE HAVE HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING, YE SHOULD WALK IN IT.

Youve heard it from the beginning {before ordained}. Its the 10 commandments that we should walk in. But we will fall short. We will sin. No one but Jesus has kept the 10 commandments perfectly.

PSALM 78  [1] Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth.[2] I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN A PARABLE: I will utter dark sayings of old:[3] Which we have heard and known, and our fathers have told us.[4] We will not hide them from their children, shewing to the generation to come the praises of the LORD, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he hath done.[5] FOR HE ESTABLISHED A TESTIMONY IN JACOB, AND APPOINTED A LAW IN ISRAEL, WHICH HE COMMANDED OUR FATHERS, that they should make them known to their children:[6] That the generation to come might know them, even the children which should be born; who should arise and declare them to their children:[7] That they might set their hope in God, AND NOT FORGET THE WORKS OF GOD, BUT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS:[8] And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God.[9] The children of Ephraim, being armed, and carrying bows, turned back in the day of battle.[10] THEY KEPT NOT THE COVENANT OF GOD, AND REFUSED TO WALK IN HIS LAW;[11] AND FORGAT HIS WORKS, and his wonders that he had shewed them.

We all know who opened his mouth in parables and who established a testimony in Jacob. Yup, its JESUS CHRIST. So according to Eph.2 Gods people who recieve the free gift of grace, will be walking in the “WORKS” that God ordained {verse 7}. But...verse 9 and 10 prophecies of what will happen to the “many”, because they refuse to walk after the 10 commandments.

TITUS 1 [14] Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.[15] Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.[16] THEY PROFESS THAT THEY KNOW GOD; BUT IN WORKS THEY DENY HIM, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

 

I feel many try to skip the latter

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Clearly says Gentiles were not part of the old covenant, we alien to Israel and strangers from the covenant. Gentiles never had any part of the old covenant and it was done away with.

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

this means he removed ALL of the old covenant not part like the sda'ers want us to believe but ALL. its gone it died when Christ died. God did not write the 10comandments to the gentiles nor did he make a covenant with the gentiles before he came to earth born of a woman.

we Gentiles are under the new Covenant which has most everything the old had but not all.

Jesus is at peace with having removed the complete old covenant and so can we be at peace.

 

Edited December 11, 2016 by coheir
correction

[JohnD]

18 minutes ago, JohnD said:

2 hours ago, WailingWall said:

Trumps it?

EPH.2  [8] FOR BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED THROUGH FAITH;

You see whats in the writings of Paul

REV.14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND THE FAITH OF JESUS.

 

The law does not trump grace. They go together like a horse and carriage

Then we should be keeping the sacrificial law plus believing in Christ?

John 6:28–29 (NASB95)
28 Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Revelation 14:12 is either:

1. stating the same thing in two different ways for emphatic effect
2. defining another way to be saved / stay saved

Just to remind you of the full verse you partially quoted:

Ephesians 2:8–10 (NASB95)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

 

[WailingWall]

25 minutes ago, JohnD said:

Then we should be keeping the sacrificial law plus believing in Christ?

 

Course not. Read Col.2{16}

COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY, or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS:

No more meat and drink offerings are to be done on those days

EZEKIEL 45 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and MEAT offerings, and DRINK offerings, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

Heres a scripture, same exact order as Col.2{16}, meat, drink, holy days (feast days), new moons, sabbaths. No doubt what so ever these 2 scriptures are speaking of the same thing. 

HEBREWS 13 [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] WHEREFORE JESUS ALSO, THAT HE MIGHT SANCTIFY THE PEOPLE WITH HIS OWN BLOOD, suffered without the gate.

We are no longer under the law of Moses concerning the meat and drink offerings of Gods holy days, new moons and the sabbaths.  Jesus fulfilled the law. We are now under grace.

JOHN 6 [53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For MY FLESH IS MEAT INDEED, and MY BLOOD IS DRINK INDEED.

see

 

 

[WailingWall]

30 minutes ago, coheir said:

I feel many try to skip the latter

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Clearly says Gentiles were not part of the old covenant, we alien to Israel and strangers from the covenant. Gentiles never had any part of the old covenant and it was done away with.

 

Read the very next verse coheir

EPHES. 2 [11] Wherefore remember, that ye being IN TIME PAST GENTILES in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANTS OF PROMISE, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

We {gentiles}were once STRANGERS from Gods covenants of promise, having no hope. BUT NOW in Christ, should we take hold of those covenants, we have hope

ISAIAH 56 [6] Also the sons of THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and TAKETH HOLD OF MY COVENANT; [7] EVEN THEM WILL I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL PEOPLE.

And heres the proof that Eph.2 says and means what it says. Even them (us gentile STRANGERS mentioned in Ephes.2) will He bring to His holy mountain, if we should take hold of His sabbath covenant. Jesus will bring us to the kingdom rest

[coheir]

1 hour ago, WailingWall said:

Read the very next verse coheir

EPHES. 2 [11] Wherefore remember, that ye being IN TIME PAST GENTILES in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANTS OF PROMISE, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

We {gentiles}were once STRANGERS from Gods covenants of promise, having no hope. BUT NOW in Christ, should we take hold of those covenants, we have hope

ISAIAH 56 [6] Also the sons of THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and TAKETH HOLD OF MY COVENANT; [7] EVEN THEM WILL I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL PEOPLE.

And heres the proof that Eph.2 says and means what it says. Even them (us gentile STRANGERS mentioned in Ephes.2) will He bring to His holy mountain, if we should take hold of His sabbath covenant. Jesus will bring us to the kingdom rest

we do not take hold of and old covenant that is replaced with a new. keep all the old law if you keep any at all or join us in the new covenant

[WailingWall]

1 hour ago, Giller said:

It is not grace , faith plus works, but rather it is grace and faith period, which will produce works, but it will produce the works of Christ.

 

Giller....i believe that you are sincere in what yu say

[WailingWall]

20 hours ago, JohnD said:

Acts 15:1–20 (NASB95)
That was the point of the Law. We cannot keep it. It is futile to try. Even if we keep it perfectly, we are sons and daughters of Adam and Eve and therefore unable to actually keep it perfectly. Yeshua / Jesus is the last Adam. He does not have that sin nature we inherited from A&E. He alone was able to keep the Law to qualify to be the Lamb of God.

IF one wishes to keep Shabbat as a practice or as (in their mind and heart) a means to honor God then that's wonderful... but any day of the week can be done this way. If we are willing to accept it, we live in the day of the Sabbath rest of the Lord (every day for 2k years now).

 

Acts 15:1-20 (KJV)
1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
 

As i said before. The "many" will take scriptures which are talkin bout circumcism and then claim those scriptures are talking bout the 10 commandments. Yikes!

[WailingWall]

7 minutes ago, Giller said:

I can see that you see that the drink offerings etc, are no longer to be done under the new covenant, but what about the days?

Because you were not really specific on this.

I personally believe that all the ceremonial laws have been done away, including the ceremonial laws that were part of the 7th day.

And of course the 7th day itself.

Hey Giller.

COL.2 [14] Blotting out THE HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.[16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Jesus blotted out “only” the handwriting of the ordinances.

2 KINGS 17 [36] But the LORD, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt with great power and a stretched out arm, him shall ye fear, and him shall ye worship, and to him shall ye do sacrifice.[37] And the statutes, AND the ordinances, AND the law, AND the commandment, which he wrote for you, ye shall observe to do for evermore; and ye shall not fear other gods.

The “many” have come in the name of Christ and would have you to believe the law, the ordinances and the commandments are all lumped together as one. They do this so they can point out a scripture which talking about the law of circumcision (which was nailed to the cross) and then apply that scripture to the ten commandments. But as you can see in above scripture, the ordinances, the law, and the commandments are all separate. And it was not the law nor the ten commandments that Jesus nailed to the cross. It was the law contained in the ordinances.

EXODUS 12 [11] And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is THE LORD'S PASSOVER. [12] For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord. [13] And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt. [14] And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations; ye shall keep it A FEAST BY AN ORDINANCE FOR EVER.

Theres one of the feast days (holy days) which are to be kept by ordinance. The Lords passover

NUMBERS 28 [16] And in the fourteenth day of the first month is THE PASSOVER OF THE LORD. [17] And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten. [18] In the first day shall be an holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work therein: [19] But ye shall offer a sacrifice made by fire for a burnt offering unto the Lord; two young bullocks, and one ram, and seven lambs of the first year: they shall be unto you without blemish: [20] And their MEAT OFFERING shall be of flour mingled with oil: three tenth deals shall ye offer for a bullock, and two tenth deals for a ram; [21] A several tenth deal shalt thou offer for every lamb, throughout the seven lambs: [22] And one goat for a sin offering, to make an atonement for you. [23] Ye shall offer these beside the burnt offering in the morning, which is for a continual burnt offering. [24] After this manner ye shall offer daily, throughout the seven days, the meat of the sacrifice made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the Lord: it shall be offered beside the continual burnt offering, and his DRINK OFFERING.

Here we see the Lords passover and the meat and drink offering which are in the handwriting of that ordinance

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary...... [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

[WailingWall]

15 hours ago, Giller said:

 

It is not grace , faith plus works, but rather it is grace and faith period, which will produce works, but it will produce the works of Christ.

 

 

JUDE 1 [4] For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. [5] I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT, afterward DESTROYED THEM THAT BELIEVED NOT.

So Giller, who are these ungodly people who turned the GRACE of God into lasciviousness and who the Lord destroyed due to unbelief? Jude1 and Hebrews 3 and Zeke 20 are speaking of the same event. Alls we gotta do is go look at scripture that tells us why they were destroyed in the wilderness

HEBREWS 3 [12]Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you AN EVIL HEART OF UNBELIEF, in departing from the living God. [13] But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [14] For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; [15] WHILE IT IS SAID, TO DAY IF YE WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS, AS IN THE PROVOCATION. [16] For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came OUT OF EGYPT by Moses. [17] But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, WHOSE CARCASES FELL IN THE WILDERNESS? [18] And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? [19] So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief

Scripture above (out of Egypt - into the wilderness - those that believed not - destroyed them)

Scripture below (out of Egypt - into the wilderness - polluted HIS SABBATHS - destroyed them)

EZEK.20 [10] Wherefore I caused them to go forth OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT, and brought them INTO THE WILDERNESS. [11] And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.[12] Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.[13] But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and MY SABBATHS THEY GREATLY POLLUTED: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them IN THE WILDERNESS, TO CONSUME THEM.

There it is. They were destroyed in the wilderness because they were not keeping Gods sabbath day. Dont walk with an evil heart of unbelief {Hebrews3v12}. Keep Gods sabbath day. Today hear His voice!