And even more Erdogan bravado

[ayin jade]

For my son the Messiah shall be revealed with those who are with him, and those who remain shall rejoice four hundred years. After those years my Messiah shall die, and all who draw human breath. Then the world shall be turned back to primeval silence for seven days, as it was at the first beginnings, so that no one shall be left. 2 Esdras 7:28-30

The above is false for the following reasons:

1. We know the Messiah was not here for 400 years, after which he died (Luke 3:1, 23; 23:1).

2. When the Messiah did die, everyone else ("all who draw human breath") did not die also (Matthew 27-28).

This book is not scripture. It is not the word of God.

[Ezra]

On 10/27/2016 at 6:01 PM, WilliamL said:

And your authority for this statement is...?

Christ Himself limited the Scriptures to the Old Testament itself.  The canon -- inspired Scriptures -- was limited to just the 24 books of the Hebrew Tanakh. Those correspond to our Old Testament, the only difference being in the grouping and arrangement. 

[WilliamL]

20 hours ago, ayin jade said:

For my son the Messiah shall be revealed with those who are with him, and those who remain shall rejoice four hundred years. After those years my Messiah shall die, and all who draw human breath. Then the world shall be turned back to primeval silence for seven days, as it was at the first beginnings, so that no one shall be left. 2 Esdras 7:28-30

The above is false for the following reasons:

1. We know the Messiah was not here for 400 years, after which he died (Luke 3:1, 23; 23:1).

2. When the Messiah did die, everyone else ("all who draw human breath") did not die also (Matthew 27-28).

This book is not scripture. It is not the word of God.

All reputable scholars recognize that 2 Esdras is a composite book made of three separate sections, most likely written by three different authors. What you write here is not only irrelevant to what is in chapters 15, being of a totally different origin, it is also pejorative, because you only quote one translation of this passage, which is disputed in the various texts found in different languages and manuscripts.

Why are you so intent on distracting from the topic? ignoring the substance of my previous post and its evidence, you go off on more side trails. The topic is Turkey's role in the End Times. What an ancient author wrote about the subject is as potentially valid as the current news articles I posted, which are not scriptural either -- but you haven't objected to them one whit.

16 hours ago, Ezra said:

Christ Himself limited the Scriptures to the Old Testament itself.

Another side trail, and not provable anyway. Jesus worked from what was accepted, but one cannot conclude from that that he did not accept writings other than those the Jews accepted.

[Ezra]

15 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Another side trail, and not provable anyway.

Yes, provable. See Luke 24:25-27;44,45.

[WilliamL]

8 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Yes, provable. See Luke 24:25-27;44,45.

Which prove nothing beyond what I said above: "Jesus worked from what was accepted, but one cannot conclude from that that he did not accept writings other than those the Jews accepted."

[WilliamL]

Istanbul should be the center of the United Nations, President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has said in a written statement on the 71st year of its foundation. 

After consistently increasing its contributions to the U.N. budget over recent years, Turkey has also been exerting strenuous efforts to turn Istanbul, which is located at the intersection of continents and civilizations, into a U.N. center, Erdoğan said, adding that Istanbul would accomplish the “U.N.’s mission and goals.”

“We believe that Istanbul, with its ancient history, cultural richness, strategic location and natural beauties, will provide critical contributions to the U.N.’s mission and goals as a center of the organization,” he said.
Repeating the phrase he often uses, Erdoğan said that “the world is bigger than five.”

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/istanbul-should-be-center-of-un-president-erdogan.aspx?PageID=238&NID=105336&NewsCatID=338

-- "than five" : that is, the five permanent members of the UN Security Council. He wants Turkey to have a seat.

On 10/26/2016 at 8:45 AM, WilliamL said:

60 As they pass by they shall crush the hateful city, and shall destroy a part of your land and abolish a portion of your glory, when they return from devastated Babylon.

Does "the hateful city" = Istanbul? I think yes.

[ayin jade]

3 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Why are you so intent on distracting from the topic? ignoring the substance of my previous post and its evidence, you go off on more side trails. The topic is Turkey's role in the End Times. What an ancient author wrote about the subject is as potentially valid as the current news articles I posted, which are not scriptural either -- but you haven't objected to them one whit.

 

Im not intent on distracting (as you put it) from the subject. But since you called 2 esdras scripture and put it on equal weight with the bible, that needed to be addressed. If any part of it is false, then its clearly NOT the word of God and NOT on equal weight with the bible. 

[WilliamL]

1 hour ago, ayin jade said:

you called 2 esdras scripture and put it on equal weight with the bible,

This is false witness on both counts. I never called it scripture, and I never put it on equal weight with the Bible.

 

[ayin jade]

14 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

This is false witness on both counts. I never called it scripture, and I never put it on equal weight with the Bible.

 

See below. You gave it equal weight. I have shown that it is a false book and not to be given credibility.

On 10/30/2016 at 8:09 AM, WilliamL said:

Whether of not you accept it as the word of God is irrelevant to whether or not it is true. If you say that all truth is restricted solely to 66 books of the Bible, then you are saying that there are no more gifts of the Holy Spirit, including the gift of prophecy.

What 2 Esdras 15 describes, in part, is a Last Days war between the land of Iran and "the nations of the dragons of Arabia." The current Sunni-Shia contentions in Iraq, Syria, Yemen and elsewhere are then merely coincidence in the light of this prophecy? I don't think so.

 

On 10/28/2016 at 7:33 AM, WilliamL said:

" To this date, the Apocrypha is "included in the lectionaries of Anglican and Lutheran Churches."^[4] Moreover, the Revised Common Lectionary, in use by most mainline Protestants including Methodists and Moravians, lists readings from the Apocrypha in the liturgical kalendar...^[5]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_apocrypha

"A lectionary is a book or listing that contains a collection of scripture readings appointed for Christian or Judaic worship on a given day or occasion."  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lectionary

 

 

 

 

[WilliamL]

Have you lost contact with reality? Nothing you posted above proves what you assert. The latter quote is from sources that indicate that some denominations include 2 Esdras in their lectionaries. My opinion is not included at all.

As far as the former quote, you once again ignored the issue I brought up, that being whether there can be post-biblical revelation of the Holy Spirit. Have the gifts of revelation and prophecy ceased -- and if so, then all other gifts of the Spirit must be presumed to have ceased also --or, are they still active? What say you?

All available evidence indicates that 2 Esdras 15-16 was written after the Apostolic Era, to which era most but not all Christian denominations have limited what they recognize as scripture. However, not being "official scripture" is not necessarily the same as not being inspired by the Holy Spirit.