SavedOnebyGrace Posted November 17, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,058 Content Per Day: 14.86 Reputation: 5,191 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 1 hour ago, other one said: I think you are taking these scriptures way beyond what they were meant.... I do recall one day when his mother and brothers were at the door to see him and he told them that these people with him was his mother and brothers..... While Mary is blessed, but not to the point that your church puts her.... This is from the website, Catholic Answers: Mary, Mother of Salvation Quote Mary’s Mediation Originates with Christ The Church knows and teaches that all the saving influences of the Blessed Virgin on mankind originate . . . from the divine pleasure. They flow forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rest on his mediation, depend entirely on it, and draw all their power from it. In no way do they impede the immediate union of the faithful with Christ. Rather, they foster this union. This saving influence is sustained by the Holy Spirit, who, just as he overshadowed the Virgin Mary when he began in her the divine motherhood, in a similar way constantly sustains her solicitude for the brothers and sisters of her Son. In effect, Mary’s mediation is intimately linked with her motherhood. It possesses a specifically maternal character, which distinguishes it from the mediation of the other creatures who in various and always subordinate ways share in the one mediation of Christ, although her own mediation is also a shared mediation. In fact, while it is true that no creature could ever be classed with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer, at the same time the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise among creatures to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this unique source. And thus the one goodness of God is in reality communicated diversely to his creatures. . . With the redeeming death of her Son, the maternal mediation of the handmaid of the Lord took on a universal dimension, for the work of redemption embraces the whole of humanity. Thus there is manifested in a singular way the efficacy of the one and universal mediation of Christ between God and men. Mary’s cooperation shares, in its subordinate character, in the universality of the mediation of the Redeemer, the one Mediator. —Redemptoris Mater (Mother of the Redeemer), 40 Neither Taking Away nor Adding Anything [T]he Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix. This, however, is so understood that it neither takes away anything from nor adds anything to the dignity and efficacy of Christ the one Mediator. No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source. —Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, 62 There’s a memorable line in a movie where a boy is breaking up with a girl, and she feels used. She cries out, "I am not a tissue! You can’t just throw me away!" To have used Mary to accomplish the Incarnation and then forget about her is to treat her like a tissue. God doesn’t work like that. When Catholics recognize Mary as Mediatrix and Co-Redemptrix, we acknowledge that God’s work in a person’s life transforms them eternally. Mary was given a new name at the Annunciation: Full of Grace. The new name indicates an ontological change. She was changed into a new person with a new role forever. — Fr. Dwight Longenecker The double talk is amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted November 17, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,132 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,858 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted November 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said: This is from the website, Catholic Answers: Mary, Mother of Salvation The double talk is amazing. it is isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMatrixHasU71 Posted November 17, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,573 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 723 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 17, 2016 2 hours ago, Hoddie said: Then maybe you'd like to give your thoughts on 1Cor. 1:23. where Paul says, "...but we preach Christ crucified..." Why does Paul preach Christ crucified? Doesn't he know Jesus has been raised from the dead? Or....1Cor. 2:2, "For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified." Again, didn't Paul know that Jesus had risen from the dead? Nobody else I asked seems to want to address them, will you? Yes Paul knew full well that He was raised from the dead. But the point here is Jesus isn't STILL dead and to portray Him as still dead rather than risen and glorified is a blasphemy not to mention the fact that it goes against God's commandments against graven images Isaiah 30:22 Ye shall defile also the covering of thy graven images of silver, and the ornament of thy molten images of gold: thou shalt cast them away as a menstruous cloth; thou shalt say unto it, Get thee hence. Isaiah 42:8 I [am] the LORD: that [is] my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Isaiah 42:17 They shall be turned back, they shall be greatly ashamed, that trust in graven images, that say to the molten images, Ye [are] our gods. Jeremiah 8:19 Behold the voice of the cry of the daughter of my people because of them that dwell in a far country: [Is] not the LORD in Zion? [is] not her king in her? Why have they provoked me to anger with their graven images, [and] with strange vanities? That's just to name a few out of the hundreds of passages against graven images Show me where it is taught in all of Catholicism that it says that they can. (relics, scapulars, ect.) Sheesh!!! Good golly girl all you gotta do is look up all the instances of these demonic Mary apparitions that speak of scapulars, magic medals etc etc. Things that the Roman Catholic church honors expressly or at least doesn't object to them. AS for relics in particular... On Invocation, Veneration and Relics of Saints, and on Sacred Images: “… the saints, who reign with Christ, offer up their prayers to God for men; and that it is good and useful to invoke them suppliantly and, in order to obtain favors from God through His Son JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD, WHO ALONE IS OUR REDEEMER and Savior… Council of Trent session 25. I am sure I could find more to support this but don't have a lot of time Sure, only if you promise not to bring up 2 Tim. 3:16–17, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteous- ness; That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." as your reasoning for Sola Scriptura. Yeah....all Scripture. Scripture alone, not tradition Look up pagan religions, btw, especially ancient pagan religions and you will find plenty of source material regarding their idolizing relics, like the bones of Buddha for example. However, I will bring up the fact that the use of the bones of Elisha brought a dead man to life: "So Elisha died, and they buried him. Now bands of Moabites used to invade the land in the spring of the year. And as a man was being buried, lo, a marauding band was seen and the man was cast into the grave of Elisha; and as soon as the man touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood on his feet" (2 Kgs. 13:20-21). This is an unequivocal biblical example of a miracle being performed by God through contact with the relics of a saint! Yeah I am familiar with that too but due to lack of time (I don't have internet) I couldn't get to it. First of all they were not treated as relics. They didn't keep the bones on them like some sort of magic amulet. A good explanation for this can be found in Matthew Henry The sepulchre of Elisha: he died in a good old age, and they buried him; and what follows shows, 1. What power there was in his life to keep off judgments; for, as soon as he was dead, the bands of the Moabites invaded the land--not great armies to face them in the field, but roving skulking bands, that murdered and plundered by surprise. God has many ways to chastise a provoking people. The king was apprehensive of danger only from the Syrians, but, behold, the Moabites invade him. Trouble comes sometimes from that point whence we least feared it. The mentioning of this immediately upon the death of Elisha intimates that the removal of God's faithful prophets is a presage of judgments coming. When ambassadors are recalled heralds may be expected. 2. What power there was in his dead body: it communicated life to another dead body, v. 21. This great miracle, though very briefly related, was a decided proof of his mission and a confirmation of all his prophecies. It was also a plain indication of another life after this. When Elisha died, there was not an end of him, for then he could not have done this. From operation we may infer existence. By this it appeared that the Lord was still the God of Elisha; therefore Elisha still lived, for God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. And it may, perhaps, have a reference to Christ, by whose death and burial the grave is made to all believers a safe and happy passage to life. It likewise intimated that though Elisha was dead, yet, in virtue of the promises made by him, Israel's interests, though they seemed quite sunk and lost, should revive and flourish again. The neighbours were carrying the dead body of a man to the grave, and, fearing to fall into the hands of the Moabites, a party of whom they saw at a distance near the place where the body was to be interred, they laid the corpse in the next convenient place, which proved to be Elisha's sepulchre. The dead man, upon touching Elisha's bones, revived, and, it is likely, went home again with his friends. Josephus relates the story otherwise, That some thieves, having robbed and murdered an honest traveller, threw his dead body into Elisha's grave, and it immediately revived. Elijah was honoured in his departure. Elisha was honoured after his departure. God thus dispenses honours as he pleases, but, one way or other, the rest of all the saints will be glorious, Isa. xi. 10. It is good being near the saints and having our lot with them both in life and death. A one time thing, once again, not repeated anywhere else in the bible. Similar are the cases of the woman cured of a hemorrhage by touching the hem of Christ’s cloak (Matt. 9:20-22) (bad example as Christ was ALIVE AND RIGHT THERE) and the sick who were healed when Peter’s shadow passed over them (Acts 5:14-16). If these aren’t examples of the use of relics, what are? (SAME ANSWER, and probably only allowed as there were so many that the apostles couldn't get to them all. This was likely also considered a 'special miracle' as in the later epistles you hear no further mention of such signs and wonders) In the case of Elisha, a Lazarus-like return from the dead was brought about through the prophet’s bones. In the New Testament cases, physical things (the cloak, the shadow, handkerchiefs and aprons) were used to effect cures. There is a perfect congruity between present-day Catholic practice and ancient practice. If you reject all Catholic relics today as frauds, you should also reject these biblical accounts as frauds. See.... I didn't use Acts 19:12 once! Again I already answered you, these people weren't DEAD Doesn't count??? Where did you get the authority to say it doesn't count? I would be very courious to hear what other bible passages you believe "don't count"!! I get the authority from the Holy Spirit, the Bible, and much wiser spirit filled men who have gone before us. And there ARE other passages which one could say "don't count" for lack of a more appropriate way to put it, not that they are unimportant but because you have to be careful to always read such passages in their proper context. Such as the false Charismatic belief that the gift of tongues still exists because most people in the bible got the gift of tongues in the beginning so they believe that tongues is a necessary sign of salvation. WRONG. Tongues died fairly quickly, as they were meant to and they certainly are not a necessary sign of salvation. Or the unforgiveable sin of blasphemy against the Holy Ghost Jesus, God in the flesh was standing RIGHT THERE before the Pharisees and though they recognized the great things He had done they still said He had a demon within Him. Jesus was condemning only the Pharisees, leaders of the Jewish church because He was right there in front of them and they still chose to demonize Him. He only condemned the leaders, too, people who were supposed to know better, not the followers. Paul, it seems certain, blasphemed the Holy Ghost many times, yet because he never saw Jesus in the flesh he wasn't condemned. I could go on but am straying too much. 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TheMatrixHasU71 Posted November 17, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,573 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 723 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 17, 2016 On 11/16/2016 at 0:39 PM, kwikphilly said: Blessings Matrix.... The problem with discussing anything with Hoddie is that no one is questioning HER Salvation,we all have embraced her as a Sister in Christ but she is continually defending the whole of the rcc,including the pope,bishop,so & so and anyone else who belongs to a catholic church!God knows each & every individuals heart(& I am sure grateful for that!!!) If He judged a person by their denomination & what they teach then every catholic would have a lot to consider.....the things. you,I ,Ezra,SObG,HAZARD & woundeddog are discussing are CLEARLY in direct opposition of Gods Word.....what is the sense of saying it over & over & over when she is in denial of the false doctrines and continually rebuttals with the RCC teachings as an organized religion?.....? Love & Peace,Kwik If she is devoted heart and soul to the Roman Catholic church, including her teachings, then her salvation is very much in question. I believe there ARE many Catholics out there who are truly saved and Catholic in name only but from what I have seen of HER, she is not one of them. We are called to rebuke false doctrines, including those of the RCC/Orthodox Catholic churches, and to lead such people back to the one and only source. So what we are discussing is not in any way against God's word. What is the sense of saying it over and over again? Sometimes there isn't any....because you will always have those people who will hold blindly onto lies in spite of all reason. But I have always been a sucker for hard cases so I am never without hope that she, or others like her, will eventually open their eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woundeddog Posted November 17, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,370 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 1,054 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/21/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/18/1868 Share Posted November 17, 2016 2 hours ago, kwikphilly said: defending the rcc seems to be your personal mission here, Surprisingly enough Hodies' aggressive promotion of the Roman Catholic Doctrine made me search out more information. For years I have teeterd on the belief that RCC was a Christian church or not. I think there are probably many "Catholics" that have come to a saving knowledge of Christ, but I can say with out doubt it is now clear to me that the Official doctrines of the Roman Catholic church are not Christian and do not lead people to a saving knowledge of the Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_S Posted November 18, 2016 Group: Servant Followers: 25 Topic Count: 275 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 5,208 Content Per Day: 1.00 Reputation: 1,893 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/02/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted November 18, 2016 On 11/16/2016 at 9:50 AM, Hoddie said: Again, how do you know she was napping, were you there? Or is this just your juvenile attempt at sarcasm? Hoddie has been banned from the thread and will be issued a warning point for the above statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted November 18, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,817 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted November 18, 2016 Blessings Matrix,woundeddog Yes Brothers......I agree with both of you & no,we don't say anything contrary to Gods Word.....that is what separates us & we are UNITED by our Faith in the knowledge of WHO our Lord & Savoir is!!!!Glory and Praise to our Lord Jesus! I too,am a sucker for those "hard cases",especially having been raised & taught the teachings of the RCC for so many years.....so now what,how about we say a prayer for our Hoddie?Let us pray her heart is softened to Receive Gods Word & He continue to draw her unto Himself,in Jesus Name! And we shall go about our Fathers Business with Love,Patience,Wisdom & Understanding With love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted November 18, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,817 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted November 18, 2016 Blessings SObG.... Wow,that link you posted just about sums it up doesn't it?Why is it so obvious for us to see the double talk,the opposite of Scripture,the enemys deception and yet the followers of this ,I guess you can say "cult",don't see it How is this even possible? I know the Word of God explains it as strong delusion but it is soooo plain to see? Since I was 5 years old I heard the double talk & UNDERSTOOD that something was very very wrong!Maybe that is it,perhaps that is wy jesus says we need to be like the little ones,pure,innocent,soft hearts & FREE minds that are not predisposed to another teaching? With love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMatrixHasU71 Posted November 21, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,573 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 723 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) On 11/17/2016 at 2:36 PM, woundeddog said: Surprisingly enough Hodies' aggressive promotion of the Roman Catholic Doctrine made me search out more information. For years I have teeterd on the belief that RCC was a Christian church or not. I think there are probably many "Catholics" that have come to a saving knowledge of Christ, but I can say with out doubt it is now clear to me that the Official doctrines of the Roman Catholic church are not Christian and do not lead people to a saving knowledge of the Lord. You ever read TWO BABYLONS by Hyslop? An excellent read. Came out in the 1850s so yes of course it is outdated but no less accurate. Easy to find originals or reprints on sites like ebay or Amazon. It talks about the teachings of the Catholic church and how they all tie in to pagan beliefs. Edited November 22, 2016 by TheMatrixHasU71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SavedOnebyGrace Posted November 21, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,058 Content Per Day: 14.86 Reputation: 5,191 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/30/2023 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 21, 2016 On 11/18/2016 at 8:54 AM, kwikphilly said: Blessings SObG.... Wow,that link you posted just about sums it up doesn't it?Why is it so obvious for us to see the double talk,the opposite of Scripture,the enemys deception and yet the followers of this ,I guess you can say "cult",don't see it How is this even possible? I know the Word of God explains it as strong delusion but it is soooo plain to see? Since I was 5 years old I heard the double talk & UNDERSTOOD that something was very very wrong!Maybe that is it,perhaps that is wy jesus says we need to be like the little ones,pure,innocent,soft hearts & FREE minds that are not predisposed to another teaching? With love-in Christ,Kwik When you throw away the legalistic garbage that man has added to the Gospel message, the true good news of Jesus Christ is there for all to see. We can only plant the seed and pray it flourishes. I've missed too many opportunities to share the good news, and have been inadequate in speech too many times when I have. Just as my wife's attempt to bring me to Jesus failed, her prayers and those of her family brought the right person to cross paths with me and the Holy Spirit opened my ears to hear the good news. I felt the Holy Spirit's presence in that man's words. I pray that all members of works oriented religions and those with no religion at all hear the good news of Jesus Christ. May the eye of the needle be too small for all to enter into His coming kingdom. SObG PS: I thank God, in Jesus Name, for your continued contribution here at Worthy. Thank you sister-in-Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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