How to find a balance between so-called "hyper grace" and "legalism"?

[missmuffet]

1 minute ago, GoldenEagle said:

Whether we believe in something or not I don't think makes them less relevant to discuss. There are people who are very legalistic in their views of themselves, others, and the Bible. There are people who are so concerned with grace they give up core, Christian, orthodox beliefs in the process. I'm trying to find the middle path, wise path, or the correct path here. Does that make sense?

God bless,
GE

I am just giving my opinion. I did not say that no one else could discuss it.

[GoldenEagle]

11 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

I am just giving my opinion. I did not say that no one else could discuss it.

So how do we find a balance and stick to what the Bible teaches? Without falling to the far left (hypergrace) or far right (legalism) .

God bless,
GE

[Marilyn C]

4 hours ago, GoldenEagle said:

How to find a balance between so-called "hyper grace" and "legalism"?

Hi GoldenEagle,

That is something we all need to address. I would say `walk by the Spirit,` however that `hearing the Spirit,` is affected by our upbringing, culture & church culture. Thus it is a personal walk, & as we mature many things fall away as not to contend over. Also there is the giving of grace to those young in the faith whom the Holy Spirit is guiding, but sometimes we want to impose certain things upon them. That`s why mentoring is so important & with relationship these things can be discussed.

As well as `walking by the Spirit` to find balance, I believe we need to come to a mature understanding of Christ`s purposes. Then the `hype & legal..` will be exposed. Those two are actually `all about me,` whereas God`s word is all about His Son, Jesus. When we know what the Father is revealing of His Son & getting our eyes off ourselves as the centre then we will come into balance.

regards, Marilyn.

[LadyKay]

15 minutes ago, GoldenEagle said:

So how do we find a balance and stick to what the Bible teaches? Without falling to the far left (hypergrace) or far right (legalism) .

God bless,
GE

I'm not sure what all of this means. "Hypergrace" or" leglism"   Sometimes we seem so caught up in following the rules that the church and others set before us, that we don't know how to  or bother to seek out God on a personal level.  We need to allow God to guide our lives. Not the church, the pastor or even other Christians. Anyway this is how I live my Christian walk. Sure I will consider what the church says and what other Christians say on matters. But in the end I will let Jesus be my guide. If I am in tune with God's will and I am going down the wrong path; God will let me know. I think that more churches need to be guiding people in how to seek God's will for their lives. Instead of just laying out rules for them to follow every Sunday. Anyway this is how I try to live my life.

[missmuffet]

39 minutes ago, GoldenEagle said:

So how do we find a balance and stick to what the Bible teaches? Without falling to the far left (hypergrace) or far right (legalism) .

God bless,
GE

I just go by what the Bible says about grace. And I also go with what that Bible says about legalism. That we are not to be legalistic. We only go by the NT teachings and the New covenant.

[GoldenEagle]

Re: 6. The lead pastor preaches against tithing.

This is one that is a non-essential not a non-negotiable. So this is not a salvation issue… That said…

There’s nowhere in the New Testament where Christians are commanded to tithe. There’s also nowhere in the New Testament where Christians are told not to tithe either. The assertion that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob all tithed before Moses was given the law is only partially true. Abraham tithed (Genesis 14:20) or gave 10% ONE TIME to Melchizedek after a battle where he recovered his nephew Lot and a lot of possessions. Abraham did not tithe regularly as prescribed by the law of God as given to Moses. Hebrews 7:4 confirms that the gift given to Melchizedek was a tenth of the spoils of battle.

There is no recording in the Bible of Isaac tithing regularly. There’s no mention of Isaac tithing at all.

Jacob made a conditional covenant with God to where IF God would provide his family safety THEN Jacob would give God a tenth or tithe of his possessions. None of God’s promises in Genesis 28:13–15 were dependent on Jacob’s tithing or lack thereof. In fact Jacob didn’t believe in God’s promises as seen in Genesis 28:16–22.

In Matthew 23 Jesus was addressing Pharisees and teachers of the law. Not those who were following Him. Seems like the author (Joshua G. Mattera) is at best creating a very weak argument for tithing. At worse he is misusing Scripture to proof text a teaching that is not given strictly speaking as a command to followers of Jesus.

In 1 Timothy 5, Paul teaches believers to support the ministers of the gospel. He quotes Deuteronomy 25:4 and the words of Jesus but he says nothing about tithing.

Jesus also said many things on the subject of giving that were not based on tithing.

Paul encourages people to give cheerfully in 2 Cor. 2:7. Giving should also be in keeping with income as seen in 1 Cor. 16:2. Every Christian should diligently pray and seek God’s wisdom in the matter of participating in tithing and/or how much to give (James 1:5).

 

God bless,
GE

[GoldenEagle]

Re: 7. The lead pastor only preaches positive motivational messages.

No real examples given here either. Is the author referring to teachers such as Joel Osteen? The saying goes that you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. The message of the Gospel is a positive one. God is saving humanity from sin. He did that through the person of Jesus Christ. Confess that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart. Trust God with the rest. Sounds like Good News to me?

[GoldenEagle]

Re: 8. Key members of the church are regularly living sinful lives with impunity.

Again, this is vague and there are no examples. I believe everyone this side of eternity still struggles with sin. Again what is meant by the term drunkenness. What physical vices is the author speaking to? It does seem like a case where one should check the plank in their own eyes before trying to help a brother with a speck in his eye…

 

Re: Conclusion
The list is kind of easy to read. People love lists. Seems much like the term “emergent church” this whole idea of “hypergrace” is in a more simplified form disagreeing with “anyone who teaches something different than me”. Maybe we should stop judging those who think differently than us (particularly on the non-essentials of the faith) and try to get to know others. Maybe even try to understand why people believe what they believe without trying to convince them of our world view, perspectives, and interpretations of Scripture.

 

God bless,
GE

[Ezra]

2 hours ago, LadyKay said:

I think that more churches need to be guiding people in how to seek God's will for their lives.

That can only happen when pastors and elders can see themselves as shepherds given to flocks to help each Christian INDIVIDUALLY. Unless a face-to-face meeting occurs to discuss God's guidance in specific issues, it all remains theoretical.  A pulpit ministry is fine, but a shepherding ministry is essential, and generally missing.

[LadyKay]

4 minutes ago, Ezra said:

That can only happen when pastors and elders can see themselves as shepherds given to flocks to help each Christian INDIVIDUALLY. Unless a face-to-face meeting occurs to discuss God's guidance in specific issues, it all remains theoretical.  A pulpit ministry is fine, but a shepherding ministry is essential, and generally missing.

Oh I don't know. I think that the pastor can preach a serious of sermons on how to find God's will for your life. While it may not cover as much or be as personal as a face to face meeting. I think it can still be effective in pointing someone in the right direction.