other one Posted February 1, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 598 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,128 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,856 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 1, 2017 I still think it's an object lesson for the entire universe as to why Satan has to be confined forever. And he has told us he would make it up to those who are his if we have to still be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAZARD Posted February 1, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 11 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 6,830 Content Per Day: 0.84 Reputation: 3,570 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/16/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted February 1, 2017 13 minutes ago, Diaste said: It's simple. God allows the beast to rule to purify the church. In other words, the time of great tribulation is the fiery testing. The Antichrist brings this horror on the church to accomplish God's purpose. The church, God's saints wont be here, they will be raptured by Christ before the tribulation. Again, the Antichrist will not rule the whole world or be a world wide dictator as many teach and believe, although his wars in the middle east will cause disruption in world wide trade, oil etc. Scripture shows he will only reign over ten kingdoms that will yet be formed inside the Old Roman Empire territory (Dan. 7:23-24). Only these ten kingdoms will give their power and kingdoms to him (Rev. 13:1; 17:12-17). Certain countries WILL ESCAPE his rule (Dan. 11:40-44). Certain countries will make war on him at the very time he is supposed to be ruling the whole world (Read Dan. 11:40-44). If he was ruling the whole world this could not happen. Because he will rule and reign only over ten countries inside the Old Roman Empire territory, and because America never was or ever will be inside that territory, and because certain countries escape the antichrist, we can Scripturally conclude and be at ease that he will not come from, or rule America, or even be a world wide dictator. Hundreds of millions of people will never take his mark either. We have seen that many nations will not be under his rule, so naturally people in these countries, America included, will not have to take his mark and they will therefore not be killed. The Bible teaches that many peoples of "all nations," that are left after the reign of the Antichrist, people who will be alive in the Millennium and will go up yearly to worship God (Read Zech 14:16-21). This again further limits the kingdoms of the Antichrist to only a part of the world and limits his ability to kill everyone who does not take the mark, even in his own empire. According to Revelation 14:9-11, no one who has taken the mark will go into the Millennium, but will be sent to eternal Hell. That multitudes go into the Millennium proves they have not taken the mark of the beast and have not been killed. If the Antichrist ruled the entie world as many people believe, and he killed everyone who did not take his mark, and the Lord Jesus sends to Hell everyone who has taken the antichrists mark, then there would be not one person left to enter the Millennium? And this would be contrary to Zech. 14:16-21; Matt. 25:31-46; Isa. 2:1-4 and many Scriptures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted February 2, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Share Posted February 2, 2017 22 hours ago, missmuffet said: The wrath of God comes to earth after the rapture of the Church. All those who are not believers with suffer God's wrath in the seven year tribulation. Many unbelievers will come to Christ during the seven year tribulation. Most of them will die as martyrs. You are correct. The wrath of God does indeed come after the rapture of the Church. But the Tribulation is not the wrath of God. During the Tribulation the righteous are punished for not taking the mark. Some are even beheaded. God does punish the righteous, the Antichrist and his system does, so the Tribulation cannot be the wrath of God! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENOCH2010 Posted February 2, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 907 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 382 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/07/1866 Share Posted February 2, 2017 correct oakwood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted February 2, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.80 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2017 1 hour ago, OakWood said: You are correct. The wrath of God does indeed come after the rapture of the Church. But the Tribulation is not the wrath of God. During the Tribulation the righteous are punished for not taking the mark. Some are even beheaded. God does punish the righteous, the Antichrist and his system does, so the Tribulation cannot be the wrath of God! True believers do not go into the tribulation. God's wrath is for everyone who enters the tribulation except for the 144,000 and twelve tribes of Israel which God will protect. They will be sealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted February 2, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Share Posted February 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, missmuffet said: True believers do not go into the tribulation. God's wrath is for everyone who enters the tribulation except for the 144,000 and twelve tribes of Israel which God will protect. They will be sealed. True believers WILL go into the Tribulation. God protects us from his own wrath. He does not protect us from the reign of the antiChrist. It's easy to understand. It's not rocket science. Scripture makes this very clear. Jesus tells us this. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matthew 24:6-13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted February 2, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.80 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, OakWood said: True believers WILL go into the Tribulation. God protects us from his own wrath. He does not protect us from the reign of the antiChrist. It's easy to understand. It's not rocket science. Scripture makes this very clear. Jesus tells us this. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matthew 24:6-13 Are you post trib? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OakWood Posted February 2, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 867 Topics Per Day: 0.24 Content Count: 7,331 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,860 Days Won: 31 Joined: 04/09/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/28/1964 Share Posted February 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, missmuffet said: Are you post trib? Yes I am ,because that is what scripture tells us. Scripture makes it clear that the rapture occurs post-Trib. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted February 2, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.80 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2017 45 minutes ago, OakWood said: Yes I am ,because that is what scripture tells us. Scripture makes it clear that the rapture occurs post-Trib. No Scripture does not make it clear that their will be a post trib rapture. There are primarily three theories about the timing of the Rapture: the belief that the Rapture will occur before the Tribulation begins (pretribulationism), the belief that the Rapture will occur at the midpoint of the Tribulation (midtribulationism), and the belief that the Rapture will occur at the end of the Tribulation (posttribulationism). This article deals specifically with the posttribulational view. Posttribulationism teaches that the Rapture occurs at the end, or near the end, of the Tribulation. At that time, the church will meet Christ in the air and then return to earth for the commencement of Christ’s Kingdom on earth. In other words, the Rapture and Christ’s Second Coming (to set up His Kingdom) happen almost simultaneously. According to this view, the church goes through the entire seven-year Tribulation. Roman Catholicism, Greek Orthodoxy, and many Protestant denominations espouse a posttribulational view of the Rapture. One strength of posttribulationism is that Jesus, in His extended discourse on the end times, says He will return after a “great tribulation” (Matthew 24:21, 29). Also, the book of Revelation, with all its various prophecies, mentions only one coming of the Lord—and that occurs after the Tribulation (Revelation 19-20). Passages such as Revelation 13:7 and 20:9 also lend support to posttribulationism in that there will obviously be saints in the Tribulation. Also, the resurrection of the dead in Revelation 20:5 is called “the first resurrection.” Posttribulationists assert that, since this “first” resurrection takes place after the Tribulation, the resurrection associated with the Rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 cannot occur until then. Posttribulationists also point out that, historically, God’s people have experienced times of intense persecution and trial. Therefore, they say, it should not be surprising that the church also experiences the Great Tribulation of the end times. In relation to this, the posttribulational view distinguishes “Satan’s wrath” (or “man’s wrath”) from “God’s wrath” in the book of Revelation. Satan’s wrath is directed against the saints, and God allows it as a means of purifying His faithful. On the other hand, God’s wrath is poured out on the Antichrist and his godless kingdom, and God will protect His people from that punishment. One weakness of posttribulationism is the clear teaching of Scripture that those who are in Christ are not under condemnation and will never experience the wrath of God (Romans 8:1). While some judgments during the Tribulation specifically target the unsaved, many other judgments, such as the earthquakes, falling stars, and famines, will affect the saved and unsaved equally. Thus, if believers go through the Tribulation, they will experience the wrath of God, in contradiction of Romans 8:1. Posttribulationists also face a difficulty in explaining the absence of the word church in all biblical passages related to the Tribulation. Even in Revelation 4–21, the lengthiest description of the Tribulation in all of Scripture, the word church never appears. Posttribulationists must assume that the word saints in Revelation 4–21 means the church, although a different Greek word is used. And a final weakness of the posttribulational view is shared by the other two theories: namely, the Bible does not give an explicit time line concerning future events. Scripture does not expressly teach one view over another, and that is why we have diversity of opinion concerning the end times and some variety on how the related prophecies should be harmonized. https://www.gotquestions.org/posttribulationism.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heretoeternity Posted February 2, 2017 Group: Seventh Day Adventist Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 480 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/06/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2017 Jesus, in Matthew 24 describes the tribulation very well, and also HIS timing for gathering His people...He says "after the tribulation" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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