"All Believers Taken" In The Pre-Tribulation Rapture is a False Teaching!

[Just a Mirror]

12 minutes ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

From the Online Etymology Dictionary:

America

1507, "the western hemisphere, North and South America," in Cartographer Martin Waldseemüller's treatise "Cosmographiae Introductio," from Modern Latin Americanus, after Amerigo Vespucci (1454-1512) who made two trips to the New World as a navigator and claimed to have discovered it. His published works put forward the idea that it was a new continent, and he was first to call it Novus Mundus "New World." Amerigo is more easily Latinized than Vespucci (Latin Vesputius, which might have yielded place-name Vesputia). The sense in English naturally was restricted toward the British colonies, then the United States.

The man's name Amerigo is Germanic, said to derive from Gothic Amalrich, literally "work-ruler." The Old English form of the name has come down as surnames Emmerich, Emery, etc. The Italian fem. form merged into Amelia.

Thats the unbeliever version, they do not subscribe to "fantasies" like we do.

 

[Just a Mirror]

12 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Get Real! The rapture (the catching up of a multitude of believers) is a ONE TIME event. It never happened in history and it will not happen in the future, after the Millennial Reign of Christ. There were, however, examples: Enoch and Elijah. then Jesus. Next will be the Bride of Christ. After that will be the 144,000. And finally at the 7th vial, the Old Testament saints.

If you will notice, Lot was REMOVED from the place God's wrath was poured out. Since God's wrath will be worldwide when it comes, God will remove His people from the planet to a place of safety.

By the way, just so we are on the same page, God's wrath will BEGIN right where John tells us, at the 6th seal: "the day of His wrath has come." In this small part we agree: it is also the start of the Day of the Lord. What you miss is, the RAPTURE will be the trigger for the Day of the Lord. Study 1 Thes. 5.

In short, Paul tells us a SUDDENLY is coming: one day  - a day of peace and safety - a day just like today - the dead in Christ will fly up out of the ground into the air. One instant later those alive and in Christ will join them in the air. Together (the gathering) we will join Jesus in the clouds.

But back to the dead in Christ: when they suddenly are resurrected, this event will cause a worldwide earthquake: Paul's "sudden destruction."  Paul tells us, at this "sudden" resurrection and destruction event, two different groups of people get two different results: those living in the light of Jesus Christ (IN Christ) will get salvation: raptured to heaven and "get to live together with Him."  (So shall we ever be with the Lord.)

Those living in darkness cannot escape: the earthquake will be worldwide, because the dead in Christ are worldwide. Paul tells us that this "sudden destruction" earthquake will be the start of the Day of the Lord, and the start of God's wrath.

John is in perfect agreement: the rapture in Revelation will take place a moment before the great earthquake of the 6th seal: Paul's "sudden destruction." Then in chapter 7 John SAW the raptured church around the throne in heaven. He did not get to see the rapture, but he saw the effect of it: the church in heaven - God taking His bride to the homes He has prepared for us.

This is reality: it is what the bible teaches us.

Roger that drill sergeant, I know there will be a catching up, but all I'm getting at is it's after the persecution by the beast and co.

Not before the beast and co.

[Just a Mirror]

14 minutes ago, OneLight said:

This time frame is after the 1000 years, which coincides with the 1000 year reign of Jesus, the millennium.

aaaaaaand roger, but it would be interesting to know about the deception after he is loosed, the time frame, how long it takes him to gather the countries, what tricks he will use, will people start finding our history, secret vaults full of esoteric knowledge and he uses that as a catalyst to lead them astray, just be interesting to know what happens and such.

[Just a Mirror]

Check out google earth, zoom in by the temple mount,  find the Tag for the "Institute for Archeological Research" then just to the right of it is another tag for "Jerusalem". Look at the elevation for that tag.

[OneLight]

16 minutes ago, Just a Mirror said:

aaaaaaand roger, but it would be interesting to know about the deception after he is loosed, the time frame, how long it takes him to gather the countries, what tricks he will use, will people start finding our history, secret vaults full of esoteric knowledge and he uses that as a catalyst to lead them astray, just be interesting to know what happens and such.

Scripture tells us in Revelation 20:3: "and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while."  All we are given is "a little while".  Everything else about this is summed up in one word "deceive".  Satan will use deception to cause men to doubt Christ and turn to him.

[iamlamad]

52 minutes ago, Just a Mirror said:

Roger that drill sergeant, I know there will be a catching up, but all I'm getting at is it's after the persecution by the beast and co.

Not before the beast and co.

Study 1 Thes. 4 & 5. They go together. Paul did not stop writing of the rapture in chapter 5 - rather he tells us WHEN in relation to the day of the Lord. 

Paul was not finished with his dissertation on the rapture at the end of chapter 4, but CONTINUED writing on the rapture in chapter 5, giving us the TIMING. In other words, we cannot use 1 thes. 4:17 without its CONTEXT. Always remember, CONTEXT is the key to understanding all scripture, and NO scripture is of any private interpretation: the real meaning of every verse must fit perfectly with every other scripture. Therefore, HOW can we pull 1 thes. 4:16-17 out of its context and say that Paul did not give any timing to the rapture? The truth is HE DID, in chapter 5.

Just two verses after the classic rapture verse, Paul writes about TIMING. Before we get to timing, notice that the last verse in chapter 4 begins with "therefore," tying it right back to the rapture in verse 17. Then the next verse, the first verse of chapter 5 begins with "but," tying it right back to the rapture in verse 17. Then verses 2 & 3 begin with "for," tying all these verses right back to the rapture in 4:17. Then verse 4 begins with "but" again tying all these verses back to the classic rapture verse of chapter 4.

Do you get the idea of context yet?

Verse 5 is just further explaining verse 4. Then verse 6 begins with "therefore, verse 7 with "for" and verse 8 with "but," tying all these verses right back to 4:17, the rapture. Verse 9 begins with "for" and verse 10 only explains verse 9. Verse 11 begins with "therefore" again tying all these verses right back to the rapture in 4:17.

Therefore this rapture passage begins in 4:13 and continues on through 5:11. NO ONE has any right to pull any of these verses out to form any kind of doctrine without considering the ENTIRE passage. For you then to say that 4:17 does not give any timing is not really considering the entire passage. Paul DOES give timing information.

Now let's discover what Paul is really teaching here. There is a SUDDENLY coming, and it will come like a thief in the night. It will come when people are saying "peace and safety." It will come on a day quite like today, in other words. So what is the sudden event? It is the rapture of 4:17. When the dead in Christ are raised, that rising of untold millions around the globe will cause a worldwide earthquake. (see Matthew 27:51 & 52 where God raised the elders of the Old Covenant) That earthquake is the "sudden destruction" of 5:3, and those living in darkness at this "sudden" event of the rapture will not escape this destruction.

AT the same time, at this sudden event of the rapture, Paul tells us what happens to those living in the light: They get "salvation" [raptured - caught up] and get to "live together with Him." (verses 9-10). Compare with 4:18: "so shall we ever be with the Lord." These two phrases are saying the same thing: once the Bride is raptured, they "will live together with Him" and will then "EVER be with the Lord." As you can plainly see, Paul is STILL talking about the rapture.

Paul writes, " For God hath not appointed us to wrath," but instead of wrath, the bride gets raptured and "so shall we ever be with the Lord." In other words, the BRIDE gets raptured while the sinners get the "sudden destruction" of God's WRATH. These two outcomes happen at the SAME EVENT: the rapture of the Bride. This "sudden destruction" wrath is the beginning of the Day of the Lord mentioned in verse 2.

So the truth is, PAUL DOES tell us WHEN, in relation to the Day of the Lord: the rapture will be the TRIGGER for the DAY of the Lord. Now, if we can find where the bible tells us when the Day of the Lord or the Day of His wrath begins, then we will KNOW (without a shadow of doubt) when the rapture comes.

We need only to read the last verse of Revelation 6 and we see that the WRATH of God begins with the 6th seal. Therefore the rapture MUST COME before the 6th seal. If we really study this out, the earthquake at the 6th seal is the VERY SAME earthquake caused by the dead in Christ rising, which again pinpoints the timing of the rapture to the 6th seal.

Therefore the ONLY out some people come up with,  is say that the 6th seal was not written in the right place, but really should be at the END of the "trib" or the 70th week. Well, that argument has been used a LOT, but it is still wrong. The 6th seal CANNOT be moved anywhere else, for it must be broken or opened before the 7th seal is broken. Remember, John NUMBERED them.

In Revelation then, the rapture - PAUL'S rapture - takes place just before the 6th seal: perhaps microseconds before. It is no accident then, that John saw the raptured church IN HEAVEN in the next chapter. Of course some want to move the 7th chapter to the end also, but that won't work either. Many people deny that this group, too large to number, is the raptured church, for they say they "came out of great tribulation." The TRUTH is, John has not yet even begun the 70th week, much less arrived at the midpoint where JESUS Himself spoke of the days of great tribulation HE spoke of beginning. The TRUTH, then, is there is more than one "great tribulation," but only ONE - the one Jesus spoke of - that will be a time greater than any other, past, present or future. All John is telling us in chapter 7 is that at the time of the rapture, it WILL BE "great tribulation," for people will be being put to death for their witness around the world. In case you have not noticed, beheadings are now not "somewhere else," it has come to the USA.

If you believe the written word of God then, you MUST believe in a pretrib rapture, for God is VERY pretrib, and caused men to write pretrib. When you deny this real proof of a pretrib rapture, as I know you will, you will only be showing the truth: that postrib doctrine is only MAN MADE and probably came from hell itself. It is human imagination running wild.

I hope this helps.

 

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Just a Mirror said:

Check out google earth, zoom in by the temple mount,  find the Tag for the "Institute for Archeological Research" then just to the right of it is another tag for "Jerusalem". Look at the elevation for that tag.

I cannot find it. Is it ON the temple mount?

[Just a Mirror]

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Study 1 Thes. 4 & 5. They go together. Paul did not stop writing of the rapture in chapter 5 - rather he tells us WHEN in relation to the day of the Lord. 

Paul was not finished with his dissertation on the rapture at the end of chapter 4, but CONTINUED writing on the rapture in chapter 5, giving us the TIMING. In other words, we cannot use 1 thes. 4:17 without its CONTEXT. Always remember, CONTEXT is the key to understanding all scripture, and NO scripture is of any private interpretation: the real meaning of every verse must fit perfectly with every other scripture. Therefore, HOW can we pull 1 thes. 4:16-17 out of its context and say that Paul did not give any timing to the rapture? The truth is HE DID, in chapter 5.

Just two verses after the classic rapture verse, Paul writes about TIMING. Before we get to timing, notice that the last verse in chapter 4 begins with "therefore," tying it right back to the rapture in verse 17. Then the next verse, the first verse of chapter 5 begins with "but," tying it right back to the rapture in verse 17. Then verses 2 & 3 begin with "for," tying all these verses right back to the rapture in 4:17. Then verse 4 begins with "but" again tying all these verses back to the classic rapture verse of chapter 4.

Do you get the idea of context yet?

Verse 5 is just further explaining verse 4. Then verse 6 begins with "therefore, verse 7 with "for" and verse 8 with "but," tying all these verses right back to 4:17, the rapture. Verse 9 begins with "for" and verse 10 only explains verse 9. Verse 11 begins with "therefore" again tying all these verses right back to the rapture in 4:17.

Therefore this rapture passage begins in 4:13 and continues on through 5:11. NO ONE has any right to pull any of these verses out to form any kind of doctrine without considering the ENTIRE passage. For you then to say that 4:17 does not give any timing is not really considering the entire passage. Paul DOES give timing information.

Now let's discover what Paul is really teaching here. There is a SUDDENLY coming, and it will come like a thief in the night. It will come when people are saying "peace and safety." It will come on a day quite like today, in other words. So what is the sudden event? It is the rapture of 4:17. When the dead in Christ are raised, that rising of untold millions around the globe will cause a worldwide earthquake. (see Matthew 27:51 & 52 where God raised the elders of the Old Covenant) That earthquake is the "sudden destruction" of 5:3, and those living in darkness at this "sudden" event of the rapture will not escape this destruction.

AT the same time, at this sudden event of the rapture, Paul tells us what happens to those living in the light: They get "salvation" [raptured - caught up] and get to "live together with Him." (verses 9-10). Compare with 4:18: "so shall we ever be with the Lord." These two phrases are saying the same thing: once the Bride is raptured, they "will live together with Him" and will then "EVER be with the Lord." As you can plainly see, Paul is STILL talking about the rapture.

Paul writes, " For God hath not appointed us to wrath," but instead of wrath, the bride gets raptured and "so shall we ever be with the Lord." In other words, the BRIDE gets raptured while the sinners get the "sudden destruction" of God's WRATH. These two outcomes happen at the SAME EVENT: the rapture of the Bride. This "sudden destruction" wrath is the beginning of the Day of the Lord mentioned in verse 2.

So the truth is, PAUL DOES tell us WHEN, in relation to the Day of the Lord: the rapture will be the TRIGGER for the DAY of the Lord. Now, if we can find where the bible tells us when the Day of the Lord or the Day of His wrath begins, then we will KNOW (without a shadow of doubt) when the rapture comes.

We need only to read the last verse of Revelation 6 and we see that the WRATH of God begins with the 6th seal. Therefore the rapture MUST COME before the 6th seal. If we really study this out, the earthquake at the 6th seal is the VERY SAME earthquake caused by the dead in Christ rising, which again pinpoints the timing of the rapture to the 6th seal.

Therefore the ONLY out some people come up with,  is say that the 6th seal was not written in the right place, but really should be at the END of the "trib" or the 70th week. Well, that argument has been used a LOT, but it is still wrong. The 6th seal CANNOT be moved anywhere else, for it must be broken or opened before the 7th seal is broken. Remember, John NUMBERED them.

In Revelation then, the rapture - PAUL'S rapture - takes place just before the 6th seal: perhaps microseconds before. It is no accident then, that John saw the raptured church IN HEAVEN in the next chapter. Of course some want to move the 7th chapter to the end also, but that won't work either. Many people deny that this group, too large to number, is the raptured church, for they say they "came out of great tribulation." The TRUTH is, John has not yet even begun the 70th week, much less arrived at the midpoint where JESUS Himself spoke of the days of great tribulation HE spoke of beginning. The TRUTH, then, is there is more than one "great tribulation," but only ONE - the one Jesus spoke of - that will be a time greater than any other, past, present or future. All John is telling us in chapter 7 is that at the time of the rapture, it WILL BE "great tribulation," for people will be being put to death for their witness around the world. In case you have not noticed, beheadings are now not "somewhere else," it has come to the USA.

If you believe the written word of God then, you MUST believe in a pretrib rapture, for God is VERY pretrib, and caused men to write pretrib. When you deny this real proof of a pretrib rapture, as I know you will, you will only be showing the truth: that postrib doctrine is only MAN MADE and probably came from hell itself. It is human imagination running wild.

I hope this helps.

 

.......

[Just a Mirror]

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I cannot find it. Is it ON the temple mount?

Wanna know something weird, I use google earth alot, like alot, the elevation on the tag said 666ft earlier, and I was looking at the correct elevation.

My cursor was on the tag.

I went back to find it and now it says 2525ft. I have no idea how that would happen, none, but heres the thing thats kinda crazy about that particular tag for Jerusalem, it's located 888ft northwest of the ROCKEFELLER Museum, which is just north of the Bethesda pool.

Rockefeller, 666, Jerusalem.

Like I said, it changed to 2525ft now, but it was 666ft or I wouldn't have posted it.

 

[Sister]

 

11 hours ago, iamlamad said:

You are too far off from reality to even bother to comment. It would require a book. But I must comment a little. May I suggest you just follow John's chronology in Revelation? If you do that, you will be much better off. 

That temple Israel will build is not God's temple, it's the False Prophet's temple.  God does not accept animal sacrifices anymore since the death of Jesus and he made it clear that even before Jesus, he was sick of their sacrifices, as they had all become an abomination to him.

  Isaiah 1:11   To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

  Isaiah 1:12   When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?

  Isaiah 1:13   Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.

  Isaiah 1:14   Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

  Isaiah 1:15   And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

  Isaiah 1:16   Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil;

  Isaiah 1:17   Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

Ok, so now we see why God then sent his own sacrifice, an unblemished Lamb without spot.  Christ is the only one who can take those sins away.  Now Israel rejected that Lamb, and will accept another one in his place.  Is this true worship?  In your eyes this deserves favour from God, and these who are worshiping in a defiled temple are worthy of  being protected no matter what?