OneLight Posted February 5, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 5, 2017 7 minutes ago, Jaydog1976 said: Great point. I can quite honestly say I don't know if tongues exist or not. However I err on the side that they do not exist to safeguard against the counterfeits. There so many of them that you don't know what is true an what if false. It is actually scary. Plus the tongues I have witnessed in my own personal visits to churches have been chaotic and not done according to the scriptures. Fear is also from the deceiver. Satan's best tool against the church is doubt. Once doubt enters into a persons faith, the door is open to him to cause more doubt. Faith comes by hearing , and hearing by the word of God. Continue to study scripture and you can notice the difference between the Holy Spirit's guidance or other false spirits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydog1976 Posted February 5, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 626 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 360 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/24/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, OneLight said: Your first paragraph is assuming that we are all alike and have the same gifts. I never said that. In fact, referring back to 1 Corinthians 12 we see that the Holy Spirit is "distributing to each one individually as He wills." Scripture goes on to show that we all are different, but of the same body. We don't have all the same calling or the same gifts. Strange as it is, the one gift of tongues is argued the most. Yes, I have seen many times the abuse of this gift. It is not my intention to tell you that you have to have the gift of tongues and speak to the body, or have the interruptions of tongues. That is up to the Holy Spirit. My first paragraph was based upon how you wrote your response. Your response was assumptive so I just ran with it. My whole point was to make sure that we don't consider it a loss when someone doesn't speak in tongues or not. That was the only point I was trying to make. I personally don't really care if a person practices tongues or not. I think it has to be done correctly and according to God's Word and unfortunately you do not see this today. So as a natural response to the thousands of fakes it puts the legitimacy of tongues into question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted February 5, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, Jaydog1976 said: My first paragraph was based upon how you wrote your response. Your response was assumptive so I just ran with it. My whole point was to make sure that we don't consider it a loss when someone doesn't speak in tongues or not. That was the only point I was trying to make. I personally don't really care if a person practices tongues or not. I think it has to be done correctly and according to God's Word and unfortunately you do not see this today. So as a natural response to the thousands of fakes it puts the legitimacy of tongues into question. The difference between what you are posting and what I posted seems to be that you are addressing only the gift of tongues while I was addressing all the gifts. As for tongues, read 1 Corinthians 14 where Paul goes on to explain the usages in this chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted February 6, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,228 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,652 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 6, 2017 My Baptist pastor used to say, "Satan wouldn't bother with producing counterfeits if tongues were not valid today." 1Co 14:2 ESV For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. 1Co 14:39 So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMatrixHasU71 Posted February 6, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,573 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 723 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 6, 2017 (edited) On 2/3/2017 at 4:15 PM, OneLight said: Faith in scripture is something personal. You don't believe tongues are for today. I believe they are. Not being an issue of salvation, feel free not to believe that the Holy Spirit still gives gifts to the Body as He sees fit. It is your loss. You cannot deny scripture...or history....or the words of our elders....there are many out there who though they rightfully believe in sola scriptura, believe that we can read the bible and understand every nuance without the help of our much wiser elders (living or dead). There are some even on this forum who seem to believe that teachers of the word are put here by God for....what.....no reason? Those who believe that the gift of tongues still exists today are often (but not always) ones who believe the canon is not closed, that the church still needs signs and wonders, and that prophecy still exists. There are many excellent ones to read, most from the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries. John Gill, Matthew Henry, Charles Henry Mackintosh, Moody, Sunday, Spurgeon, Clarke, Wesley..... (I prefer to read the actual books as I don't even like getting on the internet) but here is a site with many excellent commentators. You can learn tons from such people http://biblehub.com/commentaries/ I do believe that the Holy Ghost gives gifts as he sees fit......But you cant ignore the truth either. The church no longer needs the sign gifts for we have the BIBLE and that is all we need. And all legitimate commentators worth their salt, at least all the ones I have read, PROVE conclusively, through the bible, and as prophecy is proven by history itself, that the gift of tongues died within the first century. And these are all Sola Scripturists. And then you have some very excellent ancient fathers like Irenaeus and Ignatius and a few others. The church doesn't even NEED tongues today when the bible is being translated into every language on earth. If you cant get a written bible in your language You can also hear it on radio, read it on computer, or your phone, watch Christian oriented shows on TV.....no need for tongues. God gives gifts AS THEY ARE NEEDED. Not just willy nilly. Is it possible that God may grant someone the gift of tongues under some very RARE and unusual circumstances? Sure. I cant deny that possibility; we cant dare to limit God. But we have no proven instances of such events. And that doesn't change the FACTS that as a whole, tongues are not used or needed. Be careful of your belief that tongues still exist because "tongues" today is purely the result of demonism or mass hysteria. Edited February 6, 2017 by TheMatrixHasU71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMatrixHasU71 Posted February 6, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,573 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 723 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 6, 2017 3 hours ago, Gary Lee said: Personally, when I pray, I talk to God in English. I have friends, Hispanic, and they pray in Spanish. Assuming the French and Germans speak in their native language. Diverse tongues. For some reason, I sorta need to understand what it is I'm saying to God. And I do ask the Holy Spirit to teach me to pray. He talks to me, through His word, the bible, written in my English version, which I can understand. The gift of tongues holds no interest for me, I don't have it. I'm pretty sure my bible says not to forbid speaking in tongues, but use the guidelines spoken of. I've ask enthusiastic tongue speaking friends, why not have two interpreters at the same service to listen to one speaking in tongues, and compare their interpretations. That would be a good way to test the spirits. Was told that's not the way it works. OK. What I have witnessed in my life as a believer is simply wherever I've encountered tongue speaking, I felt uneasy, not part of the church service, and my discernment buzzer was going off. So, I don't argue as to the tongues for today question, as I don't know. I just avoid it, as there's plenty in God's word I do understand to be concerned with. Gary Lee In Him Who is Semper Fidelis Good attitude for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMatrixHasU71 Posted February 6, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,573 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 723 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 6, 2017 23 hours ago, Jaydog1976 said: I totally agree that if God has given us gifts and we don't use them then we are at a loss. However, just because I don't have the same gifts that you do or anyone else does it doesn't meant that I am lacking faith in what He can do in and through my life. I have never spoken in tongues and the Holy spirit has never led me to do so. It has nothing to do with comfort levels or anything like that. The Holy Spirit has just worked differently in my life. With that being said tongues have to be done correctly and must follow the scriptural guidelines listed in I Corinthians 14 and other passages. My point boils down to this, if you feel that the Holy Spirit has gifted you with tongues that fantastic. You must do what you feel He is leading you to do. However if the Holy Spirit hasn't done so with another person than that is fine as well. No one is better than the other. God uses us differently and in different ways. There is no loss or gain. It is how you use what God has given you for His service. You cant "do" tongues "correctly" as if you have to be taught how to do them. there are many Charismatic churches who believe this. And you cant go by "feeling" either. The gift of tongues was only in genuine earthly languages and is not done any longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted February 6, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 6, 2017 7 minutes ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said: You cannot deny scripture...or history....or the words of our elders....there are many out there who though they rightfully believe in sola scriptura, believe that we can read the bible and understand every nuance without the help of our much wiser elders (living or dead). There are some even on this forum who seem to believe that teachers of the word are put here by God for....what.....no reason? Those who believe that the gift of tongues still exists today are often (but not always) ones who believe the canon is not closed, that the church still needs signs and wonders, and that prophecy still exists. There are many excellent ones to read, most from the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries. John Gill, Matthew Henry, Charles Henry Mackintosh, Moody, Sunday, Spurgeon, Clarke, Wesley..... (I prefer to read the actual books as I don't even like getting on the internet) but here is a site with many excellent commentators. You can learn tons from such people I do believe that the Holy Ghost gives gifts as he sees fit......But you cant ignore the truth either. The church no longer needs the sign gifts for we have the BIBLE and that is all we need. And all legitimate commentators worth their salt, at least all the ones I have read, PROVE conclusively, through the bible, and as prophecy is proven by history itself, that the gift of tongues died within the first century. And these are all Sola Scripturists. And then you have some very excellent ancient fathers like Irenaeus and Ignatius and a few others. The church doesn't even NEED tongues today when the bible is being translated into every language on earth. If you cant get a written bible in your language You can also hear it on radio, read it on computer, or your phone, watch Christian oriented shows on TV.....no need for tongues. God gives gifts AS THEY ARE NEEDED. Not just willy nilly. Is it possible that God may grant someone the gift of tongues under some very RARE and unusual circumstances? Sure. I cant deny that possibility; we cant dare to limit God. But we have no proven instances of such events. And that doesn't change the FACTS that as a whole, tongues are not used or needed. Be careful of your belief that tongues still exist because "tongues" today is purely the result of demonism or mass hysteria. Be very careful of your doubt and how you spread your doubt. Your fear of this and other gifts derive from not understanding 1 Corinthians 12-14 as it is written. Like I said, since it is not a salvation issue, I let people continue to not believe ... it is your choice. As for me, I will continue to believe God is the same today as He was yesterday and will be tomorrow. Nothing has changed in Him, and if we are in Him, He is more than able to guide us in the gifts given to us as the Holy Spirit wills, not as someone else thinks or believes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMatrixHasU71 Posted February 6, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,573 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 723 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 6, 2017 1 minute ago, OneLight said: Be very careful of your doubt and how you spread your doubt. Your fear of this and other gifts derive from not understanding 1 Corinthians 12-14 as it is written. Like I said, since it is not a salvation issue, I let people continue to not believe ... it is your choice. As for me, I will continue to believe God is the same today as He was yesterday and will be tomorrow. Nothing has changed in Him, and if we are in Him, He is more than able to guide us in the gifts given to us as the Holy Spirit wills, not as someone else thinks or believes. This is NOT doubt it is FACT from putting in 20 years of study. This is not FEAR. This is FACT and trying to protect others from being led down the path of demonic activity. Do not tell me I don't know my bible or my history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMatrixHasU71 Posted February 6, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,573 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 723 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 6, 2017 15 hours ago, Willa said: My Baptist pastor used to say, "Satan wouldn't bother with producing counterfeits if tongues were not valid today." 1Co 14:2 ESV For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. 1Co 14:39 So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. But 1 Cor 14:2 is only about earthly languages where there is no translator present. The other only applied to the 1st century when tongues actually existed. You have to learn to read everything in their proper context. Satan loves to produce counterfeit signs because too many of us NEED signs to believe. that is the way it always has been throughout history. That doesn't mean tongues still has to exist for Satan to produce counterfeits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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