Soul sleep

[zorgblar]

On 2/16/2017 at 11:35 AM, Remnantrob said:

Hi Zorgblar,

 

I went to the website and it seems they are more in support of soul sleep than consciousness after death.  On that same page it states:

In ps 90:10-12 it says we fly away at death.

Notice at death we fly away.Not just"our soul flys away". Like in genesis 35:18 it says, "her soul was departing" not "she was departing.

This makes ecc 12:7 make since when it says our spirit returns to god.

If you read this by it's self it might make more sense.I got this quote from my first post and shortened it to make my main point more clear.My first post is the post right before all the other ones.

　

 

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2017 by zorgblar

[zorgblar]

In ps 90:10-12 it says we fly away at death.

Notice at death we fly away.Not just"our soul flys away". Like in genesis 35:18 it says, "her soul was departing" not "she was departing.

This makes ecc 12:7 make since when it says our spirit returns to god.

If you read this by it's self it might make more sense.I got this quote from my first post and shortened it to make my main point more clear.My first post is the post right before all the other ones.

[Guest BacKaran]

Are you a believer in Christ? If not, there's a great online Bible study from www. Village schools of the Bible. Com

[Ezra]

7 hours ago, zorgblar said:

In ps 90:10-12 it says we fly away at death.

What that verse says metaphorically is simply that the soul and spirit depart from the body at death, not that they literally have wings and fly away. Which further confirms the fact that there is no such thing as soul sleep.  

Applied to Christians, it means that their souls and spirits depart for Heaven.  Applied to the unsaved, it means that they enter Hades to await their final judgment.

[JohnD]

Each part of our make up is distinct but combined to make "us." There is an interchangeability between body and soul and soul and spirit because the soul has traits of both and IMHO is a buffer between the two realities. Think of the interchangeability of terms in scripture like this:

Body [Soul] Spirit

Body [Soul]

[Soul] Spirit

So in death our bodies are separated from our spirits and the buffer between the two ceases to exist. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Remnantrob]

On 2/17/2017 at 4:19 PM, Davida said:

   Hey there! Remnantrob, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but if u want my thoughts on it, I will share them. Bro :-) ...why must it be either or, why not both? literal and metaphorical? For me when I read it, I understood it literally in my spirit, I didn't deduce it by reasoning. I believe it in the spiritual literally cried out to the living  God.  The Bible scripture tells us that "life" is in the blood. I think "life" is more than the physical, I think it is also a spiritual living essence. "The voice of thy brother's blood crieth out to Me from the ground!"The life is in the blood - and the blood of Abel literally cried out to the Creator of all life that that Abel's life had been taken. Only have my iPhone today makes it hard to go into much detail. 

No problem...I'm just sharing the alternative point of view.

[Remnantrob]

20 hours ago, zorgblar said:

In ps 90:10-12 it says we fly away at death.

Notice at death we fly away.Not just"our soul flys away". Like in genesis 35:18 it says, "her soul was departing" not "she was departing.

This makes ecc 12:7 make since when it says our spirit returns to god.

If you read this by it's self it might make more sense.I got this quote from my first post and shortened it to make my main point more clear.My first post is the post right before all the other ones.

It says we fly away. agreed. I don't have an explanation to support my view on this verse alone, but I still don't think the state of the dead can be substantiated on this one verse alone...a good one I admit.

For the genesis 35:18 argument I will quote one of the scholars from my church.

Quote

In addition to those passages we have just considered in which the soul–nephesh is associated with death, at least two texts deserve special consideration because they speak of the departure and return of the soul. The first is Genesis 35:8, which says that Rachel’s soul was “departing” as she was dying, and the second is 1 Kings 17:21-22, which tells of the soul of the widow’s son returning to him. These two texts are used to support the view that at death the soul leaves the body and returns to the body at the resurrection. In his book Death and the Afterlife, Robert A. Morey appeals to these two texts to support his belief in the survival of the soul upon the death of the body. He writes: “If the authors of Scripture did not believe that the soul left the body at death and would return to the body at the resurrection, they would not have used such a phraseology [departing and returning of the soul]. Their manner of speaking reveals that they believed that man ultimately survived the death of the body.”37 Can this conclusion be derived legitimately from these two texts? Let us take a closer look at each of them. In describing Rachel’s hard labor, Genesis 35:18 says: “And as her soul was departing (for she died), she called his name Benoni; but his father called his name Benjamin.” To interpret the phrase “her soul was departing” as meaning that Rachel’s immortal soul was leaving her body while she was dying, runs contrary to the consistent teaching of the Old Testament that the soul dies with the body. As Hans Walter Wolff rightly points out, “We must not fail to observe that the nephesh [soul] is never given the meaning of an indestructible core of being, in contradistinction to the physical life, and even capable of living when cut off from that life. When there is a mention of the ‘departing’ (Gen 35:18) of the nephesh from a man, or of its ‘return’ (Lam 1:11), the basic idea is the concrete notion of the ceasing and restoration of breathing.”38 The phrase “her soul was departing” most likely means that “her breathing was stopping,” or we might say, she was taking her last sigh. It is important to note that the noun “soul–nephesh” derives from the verb by the same root which means “to breathe,” “to respire,” “to draw breath.” The inbreathing of the breath of life resulted in man becoming a living soul, a breathing organism. The departing of the breath of life results in a person becoming a dead soul (“for she died”). Thus, as Edmund Jacob explains, “The departure of nephesh is a metaphor for death; a dead man is one who has ceased to breathe.”  Tory Hoff offers a similar comment: “Through the concrete image of the departure of breath, the text communicates that Rachel was in the process of dying while she named her newborn son. She was not yet dead in the modern sense of the word, but was ebbing closer to death by the moment. She was losing the nephesh vitality that ruah [breath] sustained to the degree that she would soon depart from nephesh existence.”40 We conclude that the departure of the soul is a metaphor for death, most likely associated with the interruption of the breathing process. This conclusion is supported by the second text, 1 Kings 17:21-22.  Immortality or Resurrection, p. 50&51  Bacchiocchi

 

[TheMatrixHasU71]

On ‎2‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 1:08 PM, Remnantrob said:

Genesis 4:9,  10

 

 

I thinks it's called a metaphor.  I could be wrong though.

No its not a metaphor. This works well with what I quoted. Abel cried out to God from Sheol.

There is no soul sleep. The saints mentioned in Revelation 6 are DEAD in body but they are alive with the Lord, conscious and speaking. NOT SLEEPING

Also what do you think this passage means; I cant have been the only one to ask, by far, but not having the internet at home I rarely have the time to read too many messages.

 2 Corinthians 5:8   We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Also, referring to the little girl whom Christ raised from the dead

Luke 8:55   And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat.

This is not the lifebreath of the child but her conscious spirit which had left her body to go to Sheol.