Is Maryology Idolatry?

[TheMatrixHasU71]

8 hours ago, Judas Machabeus said:

Okay, so scripture can not contradict scripture. 

I just want to make sure I'm understanding you point so please correct me and clarify if I have it wrong. 

Because a woman that says blessed is thy womb and is rebuked by Jesus and he replies saying blessed are they that hear the word of God. This shows that Mary was not to be given undue reverence. 

I disagree with your analysis of the verses you quoted.... I know shocker right. But let me explain what I think is going on here. 

You have to back up 3 verses. Jesus is teaching (verse 24-26) and than he is interrupted (verse 27). Jesus is not rebuking the content of what she said, he's scolding her for interrupting (verse 28).

Luke 11:24-26

24 "When the unclean spirit has gone out of a man, he passes through waterless places seeking rest; and finding none he says, 'I will return to my house from which I came.' 
25 And when he comes he finds it swept and put in order.
26 Then he goes and brings seven other spirits more evil than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first."

 

Luke 11:27-28

27 As he said this, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, "Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts that you sucked!" 
28 But he said, " Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it!" 

Here's the challenge I see with your interpretation vs mine. Mine doesn't contradict scripture. If Jesus was rebuking the content of what the woman said than it contradicts scripture.

Luke 1:42

42 and she exclaimed with a loud cry, " Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 

Luke 1:48

48 for he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden.For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed;

Blessed is Mary among woman and all generations will call her blessed. So why would Luke write these things if in 10 chapters Jesus is going to rebuke someone for doing this.

i would also argue that Mary is given reverence above all other humans. What other human (excluding Jesus he was both human and divine) does scripture say will be called blessed by ALL generations. 

As always a pleasure. 

Cheers and God Bless

Yes Mary is most certainly blessed but this woman that Jesus rebuked was giving Mary special treatment when Jesus in return was telling her NOT to do so. 

Saying that she is blessed does not mean that she is to be set apart from all others.

Note Mary is blessed among women not ever ABOVE them

[woundeddog]

13 minutes ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

Yes Mary is most certainly blessed but this woman that Jesus rebuked was giving Mary special treatment when Jesus in return was telling her NOT to do so. 

Saying that she is blessed does not mean that she is to be set apart from all others.

Note Mary is blessed among women not ever ABOVE them

well played-- here here !

yes that is it exactly- honored, but not exalted above others--

[woundeddog]

18 hours ago, Judas Machabeus said:

Sigh, actually he DID NOT found the Roman Church. He ended Christian prosecution. There's a huge difference.

Can you cite where you get your information?

the believing True Christian church existed from the first two saved disciples of Christ. Constantine was not a saved Christian- he was a shrewed pagan- he knew the "Christian faith" if tweeked just right could be a force to unite the heathens in the empire and secure the power of Rome- he freely borrowed from pagan religions and twisted their ceremonies and doctrines and gave them a "Christian Flavor" so they would be more palatable to "converted" heathens- the whole RCC dogma of real presence was a rip off of Mithraism which actually ate the raw meat and fresh blood of sacrificed bulls- for forgiveness of sin~~ Mirtharism was the "unofficial" Roman religion until Constatine legalized HIS VERSION of Christianity----- the RCC "Mary Queen of Heaven" is just a repainted version of the pagan Simeramous holding the infant Tamous.

why is itthat depictions of her always show her with an infant when ALL REASONING Christians know Christ is an adult???? no longer a suckling baby"?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~JUDEAS MACABEES, the good news for you is that you can still come to a saving knowledge of Jesus as God and savior -- repent and reject the false system of worship that you have fallen into--- coming running back to the father like the prodigal did--- he is waiting for you--- you can have peace an know that you are entitled to Heaven by Jesus works not your efforts--- I fear that if you don't-- on Judgment day the Lord will remind you it would have been better for you to have had a millstone tied around your neck and be cast into the sea rather than to have been born-------- leading little children astray is serious business--- consider your ways

Another interesting point- Easter ( or better resurrection day) was originally celebrated by the early church on NISAN 14 the date on the old Jewish calendar for Passover-- the council of Nicaea 325? AD hung the date for Easter calibration to a Lunar event ( astrology?) the "first Sunday after the first full moon of the vernal Equinox"~~~ why use Pagan technics to set our most happy event unless it was to make it more attractive to the heathens--- Constantine and the Fledgling RCC did real Christianity no favors~~~

Edited April 6, 2017 by woundeddog
additional visuals

[Fidelibus]

1 hour ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

As for the first part, yup. Save for Jesus alone. That passage, All have sinned was meant only for humanity, anybody born with a sin nature.

As for the second, I am not seeking Him I FOUND Him over 20 years ago. 

Thanks Matrix for your responce. If you don't mind, I like to direct this post towards warrior12 and Spock as well because it pertains to them as well which you will see later in this post. 

So what you are saying Matrix, in Rom.3:23 the word "all" means every person who has ever lived sinned, no exception - except for Jesus. Now, in an earlier posts, I asked warrior12,Spock and yourself if they/you were "seeking God." they responded without a doubt they were. As for yourself, you say you are not seeking Him that you found Him over twenty years ago, which leads me to believe that there was a time you were seeking Him, correct? Now as for warrior12, Spock and possibly yourself, that would be contrary to the Bible, at least, according to their (your?) interpretation of the Bible, because in Romans 3:11, it states the following: "No one seeks for God." Now, if "all have sinned" means that everyone, without human exception, has sinned, then "No one seeks for God," means that no one, without human exception, seeks for God. Yet, they (warrior12,Spock... you did at one time?) say that they do seek for God. Which means one of the following must be true: 1. They (possibly you) were wrong and they do not seek for God in their/your life; or 2.  You/they think the Bible is wrong when it says "No one seeks for God." Which is it? Are you/they not seeking for God in your lives, or do you believe the Bible is wrong when it says "No one" seeks for God?

p.s. In Rom.3:23,and with all respect, I fail to see where it reads "Save for Jesus alone." That something you added, correct?

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

7 hours ago, Reinitin said:

The fruit of the catholic church has been rotten, the fruit of calvin, protestants and their 30,000 doctrins is rotten but the

I don't agree with some of your conclusions. It's refreshing having someone explain why they support their postion instead of just telling how wrong I am. I get it that those who disagree with me think I'm wrong. But at least tell me why you think you're right. And you did that. Thank you. 

I do agree with you in regards to a believers being the church. But there is plenty of scripture that shows that there is a visible Church and that Church carries the authority of Christ. In Acts when Paul travels to Jerusalem to consult Peter regarding circumcising gentile converts.

Acts 15:1-2

1 But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved." 
2 And when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question.

 

We see Peter speaking speaking first:

Acts 15:7

7 And after there had been much debate, Peter rose and said to them, "Brethren, you know that in the early days God made choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.

Than James:

Acts 15:13

13 After they finished speaking, James replied, "Brethren, listen to me.

We than see a letter addressed to the church, notice it states it's from the Aposltes and elders. Not from the "believers church". 

Acts 15:23

23 with the following letter: "The brethren, both the apostles and the elders, to the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cili'cia, greeting.

And than they finish the letter showing that they are excercising the authority given to them in Matt 16 for Peter and Matt 18 for James, and guided by the Holy Spirit as promised in John 15. It's says good to the Holy Spirit AND TO US....

Acts 15:28

28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things:

as stated in your post you disagree with this interpretation. For me it's pretty clear that the foundation of a visible and authorative Church exsisted. This is also supported by Paul's letters. 

Cheers

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

2 hours ago, Spock said:

This passage in 2 Timothy does mean something to me though:

 . 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the servant of God^a may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

ps it doesn't say every RCC edict or Catechism is god breathed.

Spock. I disagree with your PS kinda. You are right this scripture doesn't address the authority of the RCC. You are also incorrect about your believe that the Catechism is God breathed.  

I fully agree with this verses. Amen Amen!!! But the verse does not say that ONLY scripture is .....

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

2 hours ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

Yes Mary is most certainly blessed but this woman that Jesus rebuked was giving Mary special treatment when Jesus in return was telling her NOT to do so. 

Saying that she is blessed does not mean that she is to be set apart from all others.

Note Mary is blessed among women not ever ABOVE them

This is where we have to agree to disagree. For me it's clear Jesus is rebuking her for interrupting. 

I also disagree with your assertation that being blessed among a group does set you aside as being special. She wasn't just some woman, she was chosen by God to give him flesh and blood. Do you believe that he would just pick some ordinary woman for this? I don't. 

I'm greatful that we are able to discuss and exchange ideas.

Cheers and God Bless

 

[Spock]

27 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

Spock. I disagree with your PS kinda. You are right this scripture doesn't address the authority of the RCC. You are also incorrect about your believe that the Catechism is God breathed.  

I fully agree with this verses. Amen Amen!!! But the verse does not say that ONLY scripture is .....

Judas,  (Fidelbus too if you like)

May I ask you one simple question? I hope you answer it. (You have missed some of my questions.) 

If God were to ask you you today," Judas, why should I let you into my kingdom (Heaven)?" How would you answer God?

Please don't read much into that question.  In fact, if you answer it, I will also answer the question to show you my answer so we can compare notes, if you will. 

Thanks,

spock

Edited April 6, 2017 by Spock
Add Fidelbus

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

1 hour ago, woundeddog said:

JUDEAS MACABEES, the good news for you is that you can still come to a saving knowledge of Jesus as God and savior -- repent and reject the false system of worship that you have fallen into--- coming running back to the father like the prodigal did--- he is waiting for you--- you can have peace an know that you are entitled to Heaven by Jesus works not your efforts--- I fear that if you don't-- on Judgment day the Lord will remind you it would have been better for you to have had a millstone tied around your neck and be cast into the sea rather than to have been born-------- leading little children astray is serious business--- consider your ways

I clearly disagree with your post. You are making accusation with backing support. The lines you are trying to draw between mithra and RCC are weak. Jesus was a baby, and to draw and show that part of his life in no way proves anything. If seen art where Jesus is black. Well in your in Africa than that makes sense you would depict him that way. FYI my friend Jesus wasn't a white man!!! He was dark skinned!!

with all that said. I thank you for you heart felt plee. We may disagree theologically, but from your plee and do feel a strong desire for my salvation. I am utmost confident that I'm in the right place. In a previous post you mentioned fasting and praying for your brother. I would encourage you to do that and I would also encourage you ask the Holy Spirit to guide you to truth, were ever that may lead you. I always ask for that guidance myself. 

cheers and God Bless

[woundeddog]

1 hour ago, Judas Machabeus said:

FYI my friend Jesus wasn't a white man!!! He was dark skinned!!

 anthropologist reconstruction of what a typical middle eastern man of Jesus' location and time frame looked like

he was not a metrosexual millennial~~~~

 

JM- although I am antagonist to RCC doctrines and teaching--- I am concerned about your eternal welfare-- it may surprise you but you have been on my prayer list for awhile ~~

Edited April 6, 2017 by woundeddog