Is Maryology Idolatry?

[RustyAngeL]

On 4/11/2017 at 0:46 AM, Judas Machabeus said:

We can ask Why does God....... questions till the cows come home. He's God and He decides what He does and how He does it. We have to follow the rules he sets out. He doesn't have to follow them. I've heard different speakers give various reasons. Mary is sometimes referred to as the new ark of the covenant. 

In the OT the ark was made from pure gold. Inside it where three items. The 10 commandments (The Word), a jar of Mana (living bread), and Aaron's staff (Priesthood). 

Mary obviously could not be made of gold but God could still purify her perfectly. Because inside her would be the same things that the OT ark carries except Perfected. In her womb she carried the Word made Flesh, our living bread and our High Priest. 

So why did God choose immaculate conception for Mary. I don't know, the analogy I gave is one; I think makes sense and can be drawn from scripture. I think that because Jesus was going to get his human body from Mary that it would have to be perfect and without sin. Otherwise Jesus would be receiving flesh tainted with sin. 

Here is why I believe in the immaculate conception. And most if not all of what I am about to say is highly contested here I know that. 

I believe scripture teaches that Jesus created a visible authoritative Church. He built this Church upon Peter and the Aposltes and promised the Holy Spirit to protect and guide the Church. I believe that Church is the Catholic Church.

So if I believe scripture is the Word of God than I have to believe that the Catholic Church is Christs Church being guided and protected in all its dogmas by the Holy Spirit. 

Cheers and God Bless

Mary was not perfect, she was human just like everyone else.  She acknowledged that she too needed a Savior.  The only perfect one  is Jesus.  He never sinned.  Mary was a sinner just like us. And the Church is a body of believers not a building with a name, Catholic or otherwise.   

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

1 hour ago, RustyAngeL said:

Mary was not perfect, she was human just like everyone else.  She acknowledged that she too needed a Savior

Yes Mary was human, I agree

She needed a saviour, I agree

Mary was not perfect, I believe that at the moment of conception she was given  sanctifying grace. And than given the grace she needed to resist temptation and to not fall into sin. 

1 hour ago, RustyAngeL said:

The only perfect one  is Jesus.  He never sinned.  Mary was a sinner just like us. And the Church is a body of believers not a building with a name, Catholic or otherwise.

The only perfect one is Jesus, I agree that Jesus was perfect

He never sinned, I agree

and the Church is a body of believers, I agree

not a building with a name, Catholic or otherwise, I disagree and in the interest in not derailing the thread I'm content at leaving it there. I have a thread started (long ago on this topic) were I made my arguments. 

As a Protestant (that's a bit of an assumption on my part), I would expect you to disagree. If everyone agreed all the time..... well we'd all be Catholic ........ lol that last part was purely for humour and no malice was intended. 

Cheers and God Bless

 

[Guest shiloh357]

On 4/15/2017 at 4:20 PM, Judas Machabeus said:

Mary was not perfect, I believe that at the moment of conception she was given  sanctifying grace. And than given the grace she needed to resist temptation and to not fall into sin. 

The only perfect one is Jesus, I agree that Jesus was perfect

He never sinned, I agree

So how is Mary sinless, but not perfect?   And where do you find that she received sanctifying grace?

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

So how is Mary sinless, but not perfect?   And where do you find that she received sanctifying grace?

Adam and Eve were made perfect and remained perfect until their fall. 

Jesus was also perfect. 

When I say perfect I am saying they were not lacking anything. 

How do we know Mary was saved? Does Mary make a profession of faith?

As for your question, I'll get you the information, I don't have it off the top of my head. 

 

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

6 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

And where do you find that she received sanctifying grace?

I've poundering this question. And I'm not sure I know what you are asking. Are you asking how do we know Mary was saved?

as for the issue of whether or not Mary was sinless I found an article that discusses this:

https://www.catholic.com/magazine/print-edition/hail-mary-conceived-without-sin

[Spock]

Judas,

You might like this one. I just received this in the mail today. FYI, I was the executor of my moms estate so the RC church she attended has my address.

Fatima Centennial Plenary Indulgence Form

Did you know 2017 marks the 100th anniversay of the Fatima apparaitions? In honor of this the Pope  has granted a special plenary indulgence opportunity throughout the entire year. We are asked to devoutly participate in some celebration or prayer in honor of Mary. 

The letter is addressed- Dear friends of our blessed mother, and the card of course has a picture of baby Jesus in her mother's arms. (Why is it every picture of Jesus is when he was a baby?)  and inside the card it says.....

May Jesus, Mary, and Joseph bless you and reward you ...... (this surprised me because they included Joseph's name.) 

My question to you is simply this. What do you make of these 100 years of apparitions? 

Thanks,

spock

 

 

[BobRyan]

20 hours ago, Spock said:

Judas,

You might like this one. I just received this in the mail today. FYI, I was the executor of my moms estate so the RC church she attended has my address.

Fatima Centennial Plenary Indulgence Form

Did you know 2017 marks the 100th anniversay of the Fatima apparaitions? In honor of this the Pope  has granted a special plenary indulgence opportunity throughout the entire year. We are asked to devoutly participate in some celebration or prayer in honor of Mary. 

The letter is addressed- Dear friends of our blessed mother, and the card of course has a picture of baby Jesus in her mother's arms. (Why is it every picture of Jesus is when he was a baby?)  and inside the card it says.....

May Jesus, Mary, and Joseph bless you and reward you ...... (this surprised me because they included Joseph's name.) 

My question to you is simply this. What do you make of these 100 years of apparitions? 

Thanks,

spock

 

 

 

"the dead in Christ" will rise again according to 1 Thess 4 - at the rapture. (which happens at the Rev 19-20 2nd Coming of Christ event where the saints are in the first resurrection)

In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16 - even Abraham depicted as sovereign over all the dead in Christ - states that for Lazarus to come back and minister to the living   /   warn the living  // he would have to first be resurrected.

So then we have 1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 

 

 

 

Edited April 25, 2017 by BobRyan

[Spock]

18 minutes ago, Davida said:

Well , there you go ....this is exactly why I'm so disturbed by the RCC . I just feel nauseated when I read what was in the letter,  as it is a testimony of what is rotten to the core with the RCC & what every RCatholic denies up and down.

My brother and I had an interesting discussion. (I wonder why Judas didn't want to chime in on his thoughts about the Fatimas apparitions.) Anyhow, my bro absolutely buys into whatever Pope says or some photoshopped photo is selling. He said it makes perfect sense for mother Mary, the great intercessor,  (I thought Jesus was that) showing herself all over the world to give hope to the weary of heart (I thought Jesus does that). 

I told my brother he seriously needs to see a shrink for being so gullible and believing all this horse-dung.  I then told him if there was anything at all related to an apparition, it has nothing to do with Mary and more to do with Satan.  

Needless to say, he is pretty mad at me today.  (Maybe that is why Judas didn't want to answer this question....he knew what my response was going to be, and probably Shiloh, yowm, matrix, warrior12, davida, and a host of others.) 

Anyhow, I forgot to mention for inquiring minds, I did not give my $20 or even $10 for some priest to say a prayer for my dead parents. 

A shaking my head spock (I may get my wrists slapped for this post)

[Spock]

1 minute ago, Davida said:

I know, I know....I go from feeling so heart sick to getting so angry with the grip Satan has on these people to blind them. It is SPIRITUAL BONDAGE  that causes this SPIRITUAL Blindness and we need to go to war for them on our knees in secret Bro! Praying our Lord who is our battle axe will smash any demonic stronghold that is blinding & enslaving.

Wow davida!  Such passion. Me like!  Especially these words, "our Lord who is our battle axe will smash any demonic stronghold.....". Go Lord! Just do it!  Amen

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

On 2017-04-24 at 4:40 PM, Spock said:

My question to you is simply this. What do you make of these 100 years of apparitions? 

A small correction, the apparitions have not been on going for 100 years. It's the 100th anniversary of the first apparition. 

The Fatima apparition like all apparitions are private Revelation and Catholics are not obligated to accept them or even believe them. 

As for my thoughts on Fatima, well on the day the sun "danced" in the sky there were eye witness that were Catholic and non-Catholic. I believe there was even an atheist reporter that witnessed the miracle and wrote about it. 

If someone wants to believer or not believe, I have no problem with either. As for me I believe it happened. The miracle of the sun was witnessed by thousands of people and dried up hours and hours of rain and mud in a matter of minutes. 

cheers and God Bless