Is Maryology Idolatry?

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

4 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Why are you so gung ho in trying to convince me?

What you believe or don't believe has no bearing on me or my life. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm defending my position. If You don't want to, or think it's wrong than don't do it. It's no sweat off my back. 

We are on a discussion forum and this discussing a topic. A discussion I've enjoyed and feel it's gone as far as it's going to go. 

I think when 1 Timoth was brought up for the 4ish time in almost as many days. We are just re-hashing things at this point.

 

[Fidei Defensor]

14 minutes ago, Yowm said:

I just can't seem to get through to you.

The saints have nothing to give me...Jesus does.

I go through the same Blood as any saint TO our Lord.

Again, Scripture gives me absolutely NO promise that the saints who go on to heaven intercept my petitions from earth if I prayed TO them.

Scripture gives me all kinds of assurances that my High Priest interceeds for me. 

His is sufficient.

Why are you so gung ho in trying to convince me?

I respect you very much Yown, I have joined your threads on Solae Scriptura and more. However, I must say I don't think Judas is being gung ho, he's sharing his perspective and discussing a point of difference. We all are making our cases ardently, as should be in a debate (oh how debate is so rare in these days, especially a civil/kind debate).

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

Just now, Yowm said:

but I got nothing.

Like if said to........ I think it was Matrix, I've laid out my case using scriputre. That was when this thread was at 42 pages (my comment to Matrix). We're now at 43 pages. 

I'm a bit exhausted with this topic. Perhaps you can either go back through the 43 pages or wait till the topic comes up again. 

Either way, Cheers and God Bless

 

[Fidei Defensor]

19 minutes ago, Yowm said:

This goes back a ways. I am more of the opinion to state our case and so be it. But this round and round 50 times gets old. 

We run risk of going in circles in any discussion. I've learned if I prefer not to talk about the subject any further, to bow out, and cease getting involved in conversation (this happened recently to me on forums). Remember this, while I am not applying this Bible verse I am about to share to Judas (he's a friend, I am Protestant and I believe he's said he's Catholic), we have to remember that those who won't hear us out and attack us are what Jesus warns about, "Don't waste what is holy on people who are unholy. Don't throw your pearls to pigs! They will trample the pearls, then turn and attack you." (Matthew 7:6). Only each of us can decide in a given situation if it's worth carrying on the conversation, or if it wasting our time.  
 

Edited May 3, 2017 by Fidei Defensor

[Fidei Defensor]

7 minutes ago, Davida said:

I love looking up the meaning & origins of words, it is always amazing & enlightening.  What people don't realize too is , if it is forbidden from God, at best nothing responded, but at worst - then it is imposters & tricksters who are "coming hither" to interact. 

That is indeed the problem. My fear is that those who practice praying for the dead or asking them to pray for living are on their way to soothsaying and consulting the dead (necromancy). Its a gateway drug if you will into darker things, and most people aren't aware that certain traditions in Catholic Church are pagan: the rosary comes from Islamic and Hindu beads, Queen of Heaven Mary is Artemis/Ashteroth returned (see Jeremiah 44), the Saxons demanded the Catholic Church let them keep pagan practices and the Catholic Church obliged and adopted some of them including turning Ares, Thor, and Mars into St. George for the warrior class, and so on. The problem is that the Roman Church often tried to adapt to convert civilizations and in process adopted wicked practices. A very telling episode is Francis Xavier, who in China merged the Trinity with the Asian god Shanti, and it caused so much confusion.

[Fidei Defensor]

17 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Again, what inferences we draw from Marys life on earth we have no assurance they apply in heaven. 

I could equally apply this verse and say the disciples prayed with Mary and not to her...

Acts 1:14 KJV
[14] These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

 

Indeed, and the verses that are used to venerate Mary actual tell that she needs a savior, "How my spirit rejoices in God my Savior!" (Luke 1:47). She says she needs Savior by saying she delights in God her savior. The next verse includes the Catholic dogma, "and all generations will call me blessed." (verse 48). Actually this isn't a command, it is a statement in jubilation, a matter of fact, because the blessing is Jesus, not Mary. This happens elsewhere, "And truly, I say to you, wherever the gospel is proclaimed in the whole world, what she (woman who anoints Jesus) has done will be told in memory of her.” (Mark 14:9). In addition the perpetual virginity of Mary falls apart in this verse, "When Joseph woke up, he did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and embraced Mary as his wife, But he did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. And Joseph named him Jesus." (Matthew 1:25). The fruit of Mary and Joseph's marriage are four boys and sisters, "Then they scoffed, "He's just a carpenter, the son of Mary and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas, and Simon. And his sisters live right here among us." They were deeply offended and refused to believe in him." (Mark 6:3).
 

Edited May 3, 2017 by Fidei Defensor

[Fidei Defensor]

10 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Sometimes I don't know what I am doing in these 'discussions', truth needs to be proclaimed not debated.

That's my dogmatic side

I get dogmatic too, I call it Prophetic (think Jeremiah and John the Baptist).  

[TheMatrixHasU71]

10 hours ago, Judas Machabeus said:

I have laid out my case using scripture. This thread is currently at 42 pages so I doubt it would be an easy task to find it. But it's there.

But the problem is, you are misinterpreting passages to prove your case. If God allowed speaking to the dead He would have been pretty explicit about it. But the bible soundly condemns contacting the dead in any way.

[Happinessity]

I am not a Catholic or of the Roman Catholic church therefore I do not know all that they hold in faith about Mary mother of God as Jesus Christ. However, I do believe she should be accorded respect as God's chosen for the purpose of giving life to his purpose. And I'd assume she was without sin when a mere girl who delivered Christ into the world. If he was born of a sinner like regular people are wouldn't that then be an issue? 

[Happinessity]

5 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Showing Mary respect ..YES

Mary sinless? ..NO..

And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
(Luk 1:46-47)
 

Yes, I know that scripture. Then there would be the question, when Jesus was God in flesh how could he be sinless and born of a woman? Even Jesus rebuked the one who said of Jesus that he was good, in Luke. "“And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.” Chapter 18 verse 19.
John 15:14 “What are mortals, that they could be pure, or those born of woman, that they could be righteous?”