Do you have to be pure in doctrine to be saved ?

[lemurchampagne]

Did Jesus champion the doctrine of men? 

 

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

Blessings Friendt,

   I would like to suggest,especially when replying with such long posts,,,,where you say "Jesus made sure....." it would be really good to provide some Scripture to provide the source of where you have come to these type of interpretations to support your beliefs......So many sentences say "God said or Jesus said etc... where would that be that you are referring to?                                                            

    I have no doubt or concern for my Salvation,I BELIEVE Jesus IS WHO HE says HE is......

---

Matthew 1:23 - “Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”            To name a few verses of Scripture see.....http://bugman123.com/Bible/JesusIsGod.html My concern is for them that deny Jesus Diety & the GodHead Truine.....God the Father,God the Son & God the Holy Spirit as we all have agreed with in our Statement of Faith at time of Registration as a Believer here at Worthy CHristian Forums Ministry                                                                                       With love-in Christ,Kwik                              For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name wille called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace

Blessings Kwik, I said the same thing, JESUS said , in my understanding, but from a different angle without departing from the essence of his message. 

I am award that if I do not exactly use the same words or repeat the Scriptures in the same order that I make it difficult to be understood. 

I am not introducing something strange, but if you think and I say that with the proper intent that I said something strange bring to my attention and I will be more than glad to name the Scriptures I have in mind when I post something without referring to the Scriptures, that does not mean there is no Scriptures to support it. 

Many people do not actually read the Bible, they read books about the Bible, and not the full chapter, but portions of. 

They retain what someone else says. And that without the context. 

I post something good, sorry it was not well understood. 

Thank you for your consern. 

[Willa]

11 minutes ago, Teditis said:

Well, don't RCCer's and EO believe and confess those? To my understanding they do... ergo, Saved.

They just happen to add to the Gospel a little extra stuff that's basically works related and we know

that's a bad thing.. but does it remove them from Salvation after having repented, confessing and believing?

They don't have a good handle on what "good doctrine" is, but I don't think that nullifies their Salvation.

Makes them perpetual babes in Christ...

There is a difference between mental assent and truly clinging, to relying on and trusting in Jesus as Lord God and Savior.  Those with a personal relationship with God I believe are saved if they also trust in God's word in the Bible.  But if they have replaced that relationship with the church and rely on the church to even saints to save them, something is wrong.  If they reject God's word, and don't believe the Bible is inspired by God and holy, something is wrong. If they can't pray to God from their hearts but must rely on printed prayers, I really can't say.  Is that truly a relationship if they must be told what to pray?   If they mix other religions such as voodoo or animism with Christianity,  they should choose this day whom they will serve.  God knows His own.  These things apply to all.

  Joh 3:36  AMP And he who believes in (has faith in, clings to, relies on) the Son has (now possesses) eternal life. But whoever disobeys (is unbelieving toward, refuses to trust in, disregards, is not subject to) the Son will never see (experience) life, but [instead] the wrath of God abides on him. [God's displeasure remains on him; His indignation hangs over him continually.] [Hab 2:4]

 

[Spock]

2 hours ago, Teditis said:

Well, don't RCCer's and EO believe and confess those? To my understanding they do... ergo, Saved.

They just happen to add to the Gospel a little extra stuff that's basically works related and we know

that's a bad thing.. but does it remove them from Salvation after having repented, confessing and believing?

They don't have a good handle on what "good doctrine" is, but I don't think that nullifies their Salvation.

Makes them perpetual babes in Christ...

Ted,

im hoping this is how God sees them- full of a lot of bad doctrine and useless traditions but they promote the gospel through the Nicene Creed, etc.

As a side note, I remember reading and arguing with my brother regarding their Catechism that says GOOD Muslims can inherit eternal life too. Really!

Stuff like this makes you shake your head and really Wonder who is running this organization? How could they say anyone who doesn't have a proper belief in Christ can be saved?  I'd like to hear your answer on this one. 

[Spock]

1 hour ago, Willa said:

There is a difference between mental assent and truly clinging, to relying on and trusting in Jesus as Lord God and Savior.  Those with a personal relationship with God I believe are saved if they also trust in God's word in the Bible.  But if they have replaced that relationship with the church and rely on the church to even saints to save them, something is wrong.  If they reject God's word, and don't believe the Bible is inspired by God and holy, something is wrong. If they can't pray to God from their hearts but must rely on printed prayers, I really can't say.  Is that truly a relationship if they must be told what to pray?   If they mix other religions such as voodoo or animism with Christianity,  they should choose this day whom they will serve.  God knows His own.  These things apply to all.

  Joh 3:36  AMP And he who believes in (has faith in, clings to, relies on) the Son has (now possesses) eternal life. But whoever disobeys (is unbelieving toward, refuses to trust in, disregards, is not subject to) the Son will never see (experience) life, but [instead] the wrath of God abides on him. [God's displeasure remains on him; His indignation hangs over him continually.] [Hab 2:4]

 

Excellent post, Willa. You are right, even the Devils believe.....yes, it has to be more than mental assent.  In fact, many people will believe they are in Christ and he will tell them, "I never knew you." 

[Your closest friendnt]

38 minutes ago, Spock said:

Excellent post, Willa. You are right, even the Devils believe.....yes, it has to be more than mental assent.  In fact, many people will believe they are in Christ and he will tell them, "I never knew you." 

What is mendal ascent. 

Is it like when we are in a that place where they action things, and you communicate with mendal ascent. 

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, Spock said:

Excellent post, Willa. You are right, even the Devils believe.....yes, it has to be more than mental assent.  In fact, many people will believe they are in Christ and he will tell them, "I never knew you." 

A man can be saved with a mental ascent, that's what the Scriptures say.

As a matter of what the Scriptures say: 

The Scriptures say that a man can be saved without a mendal ascent. 

If a man can be saved without a mendal ascent, then he can be saved with a mendal ascent. 

[Your closest friendnt]

2 hours ago, Spock said:

Excellent post, Willa. You are right, even the Devils believe.....yes, it has to be more than mental assent.  In fact, many people will believe they are in Christ and he will tell them, "I never knew you." 

You remind me the time when the devils took it upon their own to be evangelist and declare that Jesus is the Son of God. 

The Devils knew who JESUS was, and the knew about his mission, and no one had to tell them. 

The devils believe that Jesus is the Son of God, with all their strength, all their might, all their heart, and did not need any one to convince them. 

Do you want proof? Sorry about the question, it is hypothetical, the lisent to him, and they did what he was asking them, they bow down to him. 

They said we know your mission, you have come to save man, and not us. 

You come to destroy us and not to destroy man. 

They were not lying, they were telling the truth, why? Do you want to laugh. 

They were trying to convince or trick JESUS to leave them where the were, and in turn, they were going to be his evangelist, tell people who he was. 

They were saying: don't you want people to believe that you are the Son of God. 

There is a reason why the Lord God could not redeem man, and give him life. In his presence he gave them death, and he worn them to stay away from him. 

Only from a distance. Sort of, they were not one. 

Hope that I will not be misanderdood, as long as you are fair like Constantine who did not prosecute, what a man not only free the believers from prosecution, but he quaranty their constitutional right to personal evangelization. 

What a man , what a vision. 

Before the batle of the bridge in Tiber, Constantine could not get any one of the idolaters high preist to course his opponent, that time he knew that the omens say that he will loose the war, that the Gods favor Maximilian to win. 

And guess what , in that time of despair, something happened, 

JESUS CHRIST volunteer, he told him I will be your blessor, and your protector, I will give you the victory , don't you be afraid of their Gods and their courses, you have me. 

Constantine knew about the Lord's conquer over the Egyptians and their Gods. 

JESUS CHRIST volunteer to fight in his side. 

Constantine gredid Jesus Christ for his win, and declare it to all people, he declared who his God is for then on and he never whorship the Idolaters God who had unite against him to destroy him. 

Perhaps they knew that he had be chosen to help the Christians, and that made him their enemy. 

Constantine declare to anyone who gave him the victory, by putting the name of Jesus Christ on all the banners, and the Cross. 

Many as a result believe, even many from his soldiers. And his mother, a high preistress of the idols. 

[Guest Teditis]

12 hours ago, Yowm said:

Contrary to the picture painted by some as to what I and some others here hold, I've never said they weren't saved. My contention has always been when push comes to shove, Scripture trumps Church Tradition when the two come into conflict.

Okay, thanks for that response... I was just trying to get a clearer picture of what others believe

regarding this subject.

[Guest Teditis]

12 hours ago, Willa said:

There is a difference between mental assent and truly clinging, to relying on and trusting in Jesus as Lord God and Savior.  Those with a personal relationship with God I believe are saved if they also trust in God's word in the Bible.  But if they have replaced that relationship with the church and rely on the church to even saints to save them, something is wrong.  If they reject God's word, and don't believe the Bible is inspired by God and holy, something is wrong. If they can't pray to God from their hearts but must rely on printed prayers, I really can't say.  Is that truly a relationship if they must be told what to pray?   If they mix other religions such as voodoo or animism with Christianity,  they should choose this day whom they will serve.  God knows His own.  These things apply to all.

  Joh 3:36  AMP And he who believes in (has faith in, clings to, relies on) the Son has (now possesses) eternal life. But whoever disobeys (is unbelieving toward, refuses to trust in, disregards, is not subject to) the Son will never see (experience) life, but [instead] the wrath of God abides on him. [God's displeasure remains on him; His indignation hangs over him continually.] [Hab 2:4]

 

Interesting insights Willa... and so much on point!

It does bother me a bit they some would go to some other as a mediator to God, other than Jesus.

I know that God cannot be happy with this and wants all people to put their trust, reliance and hope

on Jesus alone, for He alone is our source of all good things.

As to recited prayers, I don't have too much of a problem with because it mainly comes across to me as

petitions done in unison for the sake of cooperation... agreeing in thought for the church body.

I haven't seen any voodoo or animism practiced in any church that I've been to... so I can't speak to that.