The appearance of evil.

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, Running Gator said:

Either you need the extra safeguard or you do not, there is no middle ground.

No, you don't need it.   But it is nice to have extra safeguards so there is either no opportunity for temptation, and/or there is no opportunity for someone else to raise an accusation that something inappropriate took place.   To criticize anyone taking those extra precautions and to to try and twist that into a sign of weakness is rather disgraceful.

There is no Christian, that ever outgrows the need for rules and instruction and safeguards.  And the Bible is replete with them.   If God didn't think we don't need rules, then we need them.

Most people don't need a company to tell them not to act inappropriately, but there are situations that do arise, things that were not foreseen, people let their guard down and the rules are there to protect the company and the employees.   And so far, you can't really make a case that having extra safeguards is a bad thing.   You mock others for employing them, but you can't really do much accept call them sexist, and demeaning.

Godly wisdom really is a good thing, believe it or not, even if the world mocks us for employing it.

[Running Gator]

16 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

No, you don't need it.   But it is nice to have extra safeguards so there is either no opportunity for temptation, and/or there is no opportunity for someone else to raise an accusation that something inappropriate took place.   To criticize anyone taking those extra precautions and to to try and twist that into a sign of weakness is rather disgraceful.

Either they are needed, or they are not.  You can't have it both ways.

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There is no Christian, that ever outgrows the need for rules and instruction and safeguards.  And the Bible is replete with them.   If God didn't think we don't need rules, then we need them.

And since the Bible is replete with them, one who has their eyes on God does not need the rules that man adds to God's word.  God's word is sufficient.

 

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Most people don't need a company to tell them not to act inappropriately, but there are situations that do arise, things that were not foreseen, people let their guard down and the rules are there to protect the company and the employees.  

And that is what the rules are really for, so the company can punish those that break them, they have nothing to do with stopping anything from happening.  If one wants to cheat in their spouse, no company rule will keep them from doing it. 

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Godly wisdom really is a good thing, believe it or not, even if the world mocks us for employing it.

Yes, Godly wisdom is a really good thing, too bad people keep trying to add their own human wisdom to it.  Personally I do not think God needs our help, but I guess you do not agree.  And that is ok, it is a free country after all. 

[Running Gator]

1 minute ago, Davida said:

Good for those living in Christ who have been guided by the Holy Spirit to apply the wisdom that the Bible teaches with regards to "abstaining from the appearance of evil" & Kudos to them for showing added respect & honoring their husbands or wives by doing what is proper in GOD's sight rather then man's.  May God bless them & their marriages.

So,since I disagree with your view on the appearance of evil my marriage is not worthy of you asking God to bless it.  

Well, that is an eye opening turn of events.  Lucky for me God does not base His blessing on your biases.

[Running Gator]

7 minutes ago, Davida said:

Must you turn things to mean evil?  I really feel sorry for you.

That is obvious since you do not even feel my marriage is worthy of being blessed.  

[JoshuasonFlower]

Is it me? Or is this thread dedicated to the encompassing vast array of options for discussion surrounding the many and varied appearances of evil mostly focusing on relationship? A debate as to whether or not the individual in relationship has a right to practice, without challenge, a moral standard upholding God's ideal for Christian marriage? 

[LadyKay]

9 minutes ago, JoshuasonFlower said:

Is it me? Or is this thread dedicated to the encompassing vast array of options for discussion surrounding the many and varied appearances of evil mostly focusing on relationship? A debate as to whether or not the individual in relationship has a right to practice, without challenge, a moral standard upholding God's ideal for Christian marriage? 

Come sit next to me Joshu I got pop corn!  Let's toss Mr. Trump into the mix and see what happens then ! 

Edited April 23, 2017 by LadyKay

[Running Gator]

26 minutes ago, JoshuasonFlower said:

Is it me? Or is this thread dedicated to the encompassing vast array of options for discussion surrounding the many and varied appearances of evil mostly focusing on relationship? A debate as to whether or not the individual in relationship has a right to practice, without challenge, a moral standard upholding God's ideal for Christian marriage? 

Of course every individual has the right to do what is right for their relationship and to uphold  the moral standard for God's ideal for Christian marriage as they see it.  

This all started because someone in a different thread asked for an opinion of their standards and I gave an opinion that was not in line with the rest of the group.  I was not aware that I was not supposed to disagree, I always assume when someone ask for an opinion they want an honest answer. 

[Running Gator]

22 minutes ago, LadyKay said:

Come sit next to me Joshu I got pop corn!  Let's toss Mr. Trump into the mix and see what happens then ! 

Don't forget to throw in which version of the bible is the best!  

[Neighbor]

I find myself in good company with Vice president Spence and Rabbi Landau.  I think I will just stand my ground,- and let "the foolish one's" rant on  as my pastor called those that  are critcizing  V.P. Spence  just today.  I will continue to applaud and follow his example.

From Rabbi Landau's blog at http://adathisraelsf.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=24&Itemid=141  comes the following; Since last week’s Washington Post profile of Karen Pence, the vice president’s wife, critics have obsessed over a single line which reported that as of 2002, the vice president doesn’t dine alone with women other than his wife. Many writers have argued that Pence’s preference amounts to a discriminatory policy against women employees. From a Jewish perspective, Mr. Pence’s behavior is right on the mark.

In order to explain why, let me share with you the perspective of Rebbitzen Emunah Braverman from Los Angeles, published on Aish.com:

The blogosphere erupted with the news that Vice-President Mike Pence won’t eat alone with a woman other than his wife and won’t attend events where there is alcohol without her there. Some people think this reflects some antiquated sexism. I think it shows is a respect for and commitment to his marriage.

“You and the Vice-President have something in common,” I told my husband. “You have the same rule about not eating alone with another woman.” This is not because we share a “pretty radically retrograde mindset” that “doesn’t respect women as humans with thoughts and skills to contribute but rather sees them primarily as sexual temptations…” as a Slate article put it. It's because my husband has too much respect for me and our marriage to risk compromising it, even in the slightest.

It’s because from the Torah perspective (I can't presume to speak for the VP so I can only share our views), we want our marriage to be the best possible. We want to be like Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden (as we say under the chuppa), like the only two people on earth who only have eyes for each other. In order to attempt to create this type of reality, we have to establish rules and guidelines. Like Mr. Pence, ours prevents my husband from dining alone with other women. I’m not sure what exactly is lost by this, and the gain seems obvious.

To those who argue that this suggests a negative disrespectful view of women, let me add that the same rule applies to me (and I’m assuming to Mrs. Pence as well). I would not go out for dinner alone with another man. Is it because it’s too tempting and men are only objects to me? No one would seriously make that claim. On the contrary; once again, it’s because my marriage is too important to risk even a small amount of damage, even a frisson of feeling or connection with someone else.

We don’t want to put ourselves in situations of temptation, not because we are unrealistically afraid but rather because we are realistically so. We see the damaged relationships all around us. We see the mistakes, the unanticipated consequences of seemingly innocent behaviors.

Our society has become very casual about relations between the sexes; it doesn’t always lead to inappropriate behavior but there is definitely a cost. Workplace romances, online affairs – and while there are no guarantees in life and the Talmud reminds us that we can’t be sure of ourselves until the day of our death, I certainly want to stack the odds in my favor.

When my husband teaches (non-religious) married men, he tries to warn them away from looking at other women. “The first look is instinctive; the second is a choice,” he tells them. And that choice can lead to problems, even if it’s just thinking about women other than your wife. Thoughts lead to action so we want to exercise control our thoughts as well.

The Mishna teaches us to build a fence around the Torah. When something is very precious to us, we go to extra lengths to protect it. Big mansions reside behind large walls or gates with extensive (and expensive) security. Fancy jewelry is kept in a safe. Presidents have the secret security.

In Jewish understanding, we build fences to protect our spiritual lives, not just our physical ones. And we certainly want to protect our marriages. Not dining alone with someone of the other gender to whom we are not married is just one of the many ways in which we tell the world (and ourselves!) that our marriage, our relationship is too important to be tampered with. We need to police our own actions and thoughts.

Instead of condemning Mike Pence, I think we should be applauding him.

 

 

Edited April 23, 2017 by Neighbor

[Running Gator]

Well, we all need our role models I guess