Predators, Dangerous Deviants & J.D. Hall of Pulpit & Pen

[JoshuasonFlower]

It does my heart good that the member saints here at Worthy are challenging those who are dedicated to condemning the Orthodox faith. In so doing the saints give cause for those committed to demonstrate they know nothing , in their own words as proof, about the Orthodox Christian faith.

Praise God!

For those who would review this thread discussion to this point and take what is said by people here, the opponents of Orthodoxy and those who know we are defending our brothers and sisters in Christ, I would suggest if the time was spent to learn about the Orthodox faith as much as is spent demonstrating no knowledge as some have and continue to, this new schism among the members of Worthy Christians would be averted.

Case in point, one might wish to visit an Orthodox Christian website that hopes to teach what is believed. This way the falsehoods that have been promoted against the church for the express purpose of excising the Orthodox people from Christ's church would be defeated. If one can take the time to entertain false witness against the church and hope to reason with what knows no reason to learn about Orthodox Christianity they can better identify the false witness. And then see what purpose is behind it.

For instance, there is a falsehood promoted in the world that claims the Orthodox Christian church does not believe in “Scripture alone, faith alone, grace alone, and Christ alone”.

There is a favorite go-to information site for many a Christian known as, "Got Questions". Their entry concerning Orthodox Christianity makes the claim the Orthodox church does not hold to those tenets.

Read closely. No Christian holds to those tenets of isolation. Because they are contradictory and would then make the truth of God and Christ conflicting for the irrationality demonstrated in a simple word with four traits affirmed by and within our faith. "Alone". 

Alone=1.Isolated and lonely. 2.)Indicating that something is confined to the specified subject or recipient

Grace alone.
Grace, by itself?

No, there must be faith alone. So it is said. Right? But faith isn't alone, all by itself. isolated,  because there is Scripture.

Scripture alone?

Without grace, and faith?

No, grace and faith are requisite for the believer in God and Jesus Christ. Oh, well then there's scripture alone. Scripture all by itself?
From whence was scripture born? Through the giving of God and his divine inspiration that spoke to what amounts to over 40 different authors of his holy word. Scripture all by itself?

Alone?

Christ alone? Isolated. By himself? See John 3:16.

Or is it a collaboration instead? That which works first by the grace of God the Father to deliver then His Son Jesus? So that his ministry, purpose, death, burial, resurrection, would deliver the message of redemption. Made possible by God' grace first. So that hearing of Jesus, through the oral tradition in the beginning as was the case when Jesus walked, we would then be blessed to read of it with the invention of the printing press that gave God's truth to the world.

God's scriptures, God's breath. Alone? All by itself?

Or did it have a beginning ? How about, Grace, Christ, Faith, Scripture together? That bring us to the light of the world. So that we who are born into a world of sin are not left to die alone without hope. 

 

Another thing that has been claimed falsely is that the Orthodox do not hold to Imputed Righteousness. Another falsehood easily cast aside with truth if one but takes the time and has the respect for sisters and brothers in Christ to read what they have to say about the faith they have been martyred for more than any other Christians.
 

Quote

 

God’s “Righteousness”

(Excerpted from full article linked above) "In the Eastern perspective, there is no thought that we must accumulate merits in order to justify ourselves before God, although our faithful often seem (as evidenced in Confession) to feel that if we are to be saved, our good works must outweigh our sins. Nor, on the other hand, is there a denial of the place and importance of good works in Christian life (Ephesians 2:8-10!). Salvation is accomplished by grace in response to faith. But that faith cannot be passive; it must express itself, not merely by confessing Jesus as “personal Lord and Savior,” but by feeding, clothing, visiting and otherwise caring for the “least” of Jesus’ brethren (Mt 25).

What we are saved from is the key issue here. Rather than view salvation primarily as a forensic liberation from guilt through imputed or imparted righteousness, we should see it as incorporation, by baptism, into Christ’s death and resurrection, such that we “die and rise” with Him. Thus we are saved from Death. We are freed from this ultimate consequence of sin and guilt—but only as a divinely bestowed gift of God’s ineffable love, expressed in the suffering death of His Son, a gift to which we respond with faith that issues in love. That response, through the action of the indwelling Spirit, enables us finally to share in Christ’s own resurrection and glorification, attaining what the Greek Fathers call theôsis or “deification” (which means existential participation in God’s life, and not ontological confusion between God and His human creatures).^{[5] "}

 

 

Those interested to learn far more can click that link in the quote box above sourcing the full article on Orthodox teachings and beliefs concerning God's Righteousness and find far more detail on all that is true about the Orthodox tradition. Keeping in mind, Greek Orthodox Christian, Eastern Orthodox Christian, and so forth, are all referring to the same church tradition of Christian Orthodoxy. The Greek, Eastern, etc... preceding the Orthodox title are terms identifying the region in which the parish exists.

For the quick study or those who do not wish to read an entire Orthodox Christian information site there is this shared from the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry or, CARM.

Dictionary of Terms of the Orthodox Church by Matt Slick

Let's take a few other things that have been falsely claimed about our Orthodox brothers and sisters. Remembering that the great schism of 1054 helped to create the many denominations that exist today. And while we all hold to the belief in God, God's grace, Jesus, Faith, and Scripture, and the means of salvation being the cross, how we revere God, worship, celebrate the Holy Spirit, are unique to the churches, denominations. Imagine! Having how we give praise to God condemned as that which "proves" we are not Christians . When the heart of the Gospel is believed by all. And especially tragic is when we are slaughtered for believing in God and Jesus and there are those who would say while we deserve false pity, we did not die deserving to be called Christian!

 

A few excerpts from the Dictionary above so as to quickly put right the false information circulating against Orthodoxy on the Net.

Born Again--"translated literally, "born from above." In order to gain eternal life the person must be born again to new life. This new birth is through Jesus Christ in the Mystery of Baptism. This new life is received from the Holy Spirit through the sanctifying waters of baptism."

Faith--"the power given us by Almighty God which enables us to believe what He has revealed to us. Faith is necessary for salvation and must be accompanied by good works, as a sign that one is indeed imbued with faith itself.

Grace--"the name given to the assistance by a loving and compassionate God to those who seek his help. Grace also refers to the mercy of God and his abundant goodwill to men and women of all ages . . . It is this power which sanctifies, gives life and perfects that which is in the church for the benefit of her numbers . . . We must cooperate with his grace . . . if he (who claims the name Christian) does not bear in his heart the conviction that the grace of God, given for faith, is the mercy of God . . . If he does not labor with the aim of receiving the grace of God, first of all through baptism, or if he had it and it departed by reason of his sin, to cause it to return again through repentance, confession, and a self belittling life, and if, in giving alms, fasting and performing vigils, prayers and the rest, he thinks he is performing glorious virtues and good deeds valuable in themselves, the labors and exhausts in vain."

Justification--"the process of God for giving the repentant sinner and making him a righteous person. We are unable to gain justification through good works are human merit, since justification is a free gift of God given to the faithful when they respond to His love and truth. True faith is not just belief but a sincere commitment to Christ which is shown forth by works of righteousness.

Salvation--"the term used to describe deliverance from sin and death, union with Christ and abiding with God forever in eternity. Salvation is a process from Baptism until death. It is not an instant movement of "being saved" by pronouncing a simple formula of trust in Jesus as personal Savior. We are saved through faith, a gift from God, but our salvation must show itself in works of righteousness. We gain the grace of salvation through the Mysteries of the Church. St. Paul refers to "working out" once salvation in "fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12)."

Scripture and Tradition--"these are not to be understood as complementary or conflicting authorities in Orthodoxy. The Church does not accept the idea of "autarkeia" or "Sola Scriptura." Orthodoxy sees Holy Scripture was a product of, or fruit, of Tradition. God, in fact does not speak to the Bible alone, since the Fathers were witnesses to the early faith, and along with the liturgy, creed, and decrees of the faith transmit divine Truth to all believers. The Orthodox Church teaches us that the books of the Bible are based on a huge body of oral tradition whose limits are not able to be defined."

 

This I set here because another false claim is made about the Orthodox. That they worship idols. This is false.

Icon--"a painting on wood or other material representing our Lord, the All Holy Virgin, saints, or events in their lives. Icons are produced in all sizes, and may be portable or stationary, e.g., painted on a wall or on iconostasis . . . Orthodox churches are replete with icons and the first action of any believer upon entering the sanctuary will be to reverence the Holy Table by bowing in front of the Holy Doors, and then the icons of our Lord and the Mother of God, and the various saints . . . icons are to be honored and venerated but never worshiped, for that is something reserved for God alone."

If we remember the books of the New Testament named for what is believed to be the Apostles who walked with our Lord, we honor their testimony and recollection of Jesus words in his ministry. We recognize Paul, who was beheaded, martyred, for his preaching of God's truth through Jesus Christ.

Do we worship Paul?

Of course not. Icon's help in a visually inclined society where words bring visual imaginings of what the word is, defines, depicts in reality or imagining. Icon's do the same when there were no camera's present in first century A.D. . Jesus died on the cross. Do any hear wear a cross on a chain?

Jesus spoke in parables which are poems.Often repeating those familiar to the Jews who followed him for being that like unto what were read to them from the Hebrew sacred scrolls in Temple. Remember, Jesus did teach in the Temple. He knew the Hebrew Bible by heart because his Father gave it to us then. As he did that which Christians use now.

The Bible is written with simile, a figure of speech designed to deliver vivid imagery of the message. It is also written using allegory, which is a teaching method delivering a story, a poem, intended to reveal a hidden message , visualization, in the wording. The Bible also incorporates metaphor. Metaphor is a figure of speech which makes an implicit, implied or hidden comparison between two things that are unrelated but share some common characteristics.

Therefore, don't be misled to think Orthodox Christians worship idols when they have never done so. I do not worship the cross that hangs as a tiny wooden pendant about the leather thong about my neck. It reminds me when I feel it against my flesh that I exist as one reborn and my sins covered by the blood that covered the actual cross when Rome crucified the Savior of the world our Holy Spirit Father by his grace sent to be born into the world. And die for the sins of the world taken upon himself on the cross.

It is in the spirit of that sacrifice that I write this hugely long post so as to pray it help deliver even one member here from what is intending to mislead the whole of Worthy from the truth of the heart of Orthodox Christianity. The heart of their faith is God, grace, Jesus, Faith, Scripture, Repentance, Redemption, Baptism, Regeneration, Confession, as we're told to do when we sin, though those are not held against us because we now have an advocate on our behalf in the form of Jesus in Heaven unto the Father.

Why don't we strive to live in community? Rather than permit ourselves to be cleaved by that which hopes to fracture the truth of God in Jesus Christ.

Learn the history of the Orthodox church. The Apostle John-Mark founded what today is called the Eastern Orthodox church. Tell me, which one of you would say, John-Mark did not know Jesus? Then why would you follow that which does not know Orthodox Christianity? Yet hopes you will believe them and turn against the oldest church on God's Earth?

Laus Deo ,

J.

 

Edited April 22, 2017 by JoshuasonFlower

[Wayne222]

26 minutes ago, JoshuasonFlower said:

It does my heart good that the member saints here at Worthy are challenging those who are dedicated to condemning the Orthodox faith. In so doing the saints give cause for those committed to demonstrate they know nothing , in their own words as proof, about the Orthodox Christian faith.

Praise God!

For those who would review this thread discussion to this point and take what is said by people here, the opponents of Orthodoxy and those who know we are defending our brothers and sisters in Christ, I would suggest if the time was spent to learn about the Orthodox faith as much as is spent demonstrating no knowledge as some have and continue to, this new schism among the members of Worthy Christians would be averted.

Case in point, one might wish to visit an Orthodox Christian website that hopes to teach what is believed. This way the falsehoods that have been promoted against the church for the express purpose of excising the Orthodox people from Christ's church would be defeated. If one can take the time to entertain false witness against the church and hope to reason with what knows no reason to learn about Orthodox Christianity they can better identify the false witness. And then see what purpose is behind it.

For instance, there is a falsehood promoted in the world that claims the Orthodox Christian church does not believe in “Scripture alone, faith alone, grace alone, and Christ alone”.

There is a favorite go-to information site for many a Christian known as, "Got Questions". Their entry concerning Orthodox Christianity makes the claim the Orthodox church does not hold to those tenets.

Read closely. No Christian holds to those tenets of isolation. Because they are contradictory and would then make the truth of God and Christ conflicting for the irrationality demonstrated in a simple word with four traits affirmed by and within our faith. "Alone". 

Alone=1.Isolated and lonely. 2.)Indicating that something is confined to the specified subject or recipient

Grace alone.
Grace, by itself?

No, there must be faith alone. So it is said. Right? But faith isn't alone, all by itself. isolated,  because there is Scripture.

Scripture alone?

Without grace, and faith?

No, grace and faith are requisite for the believer in God and Jesus Christ. Oh, well then there's scripture alone. Scripture all by itself?
From whence was scripture born? Through the giving of God and his divine inspiration that spoke to what amounts to over 40 different authors of his holy word. Scripture all by itself?

Alone?

Christ alone? Isolated. By himself? See John 3:16.

Or is it a collaboration instead? That which works first by the grace of God the Father to deliver then His Son Jesus? So that his ministry, purpose, death, burial, resurrection, would deliver the message of redemption. Made possible by God' grace first. So that hearing of Jesus, through the oral tradition in the beginning as was the case when Jesus walked, we would then be blessed to read of it with the invention of the printing press that gave God's truth to the world.

God's scriptures, God's breath. Alone? All by itself?

Or did it have a beginning ? How about, Grace, Christ, Faith, Scripture together? That bring us to the light of the world. So that we who are born into a world of sin are not left to die alone without hope. 

 

Another thing that has been claimed falsely is that the Orthodox do not hold to Imputed Righteousness. Another falsehood easily cast aside with truth if one but takes the time and has the respect for sisters and brothers in Christ to read what they have to say about the faith they have been martyred for more than any other Christians.
 

 

Those interested to learn far more can click that link in the quote box above sourcing the full article on Orthodox teachings and beliefs concerning God's Righteousness and find far more detail on all that is true about the Orthodox tradition. Keeping in mind, Greek Orthodox Christian, Eastern Orthodox Christian, and so forth, are all referring to the same church tradition of Christian Orthodoxy. The Greek, Eastern, etc... preceding the Orthodox title are terms identifying the region in which the parish exists.

For the quick study or those who do not wish to read an entire Orthodox Christian information site there is this shared from the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry or, CARM.

Dictionary of Terms of the Orthodox Church by Matt Slick

Let's take a few other things that have been falsely claimed about our Orthodox brothers and sisters. Remembering that the great schism of 1054 helped to create the many denominations that exist today. And while we all hold to the belief in God, God's grace, Jesus, Faith, and Scripture, and the means of salvation being the cross, how we revere God, worship, celebrate the Holy Spirit, are unique to the churches, denominations. Imagine! Having how we give praise to God condemned as that which "proves" we are not Christians . When the heart of the Gospel is believed by all. And especially tragic is when we are slaughtered for believing in God and Jesus and there are those who would say while we deserve false pity, we did not die deserving to be called Christian!

 

A few excerpts from the Dictionary above so as to quickly put right the false information circulating against Orthodoxy on the Net.

Born Again--"translated literally, "born from above." In order to gain eternal life the person must be born again to new life. This new birth is through Jesus Christ in the Mystery of Baptism. This new life is received from the Holy Spirit through the sanctifying waters of baptism."

Faith--"the power given us by Almighty God which enables us to believe what He has revealed to us. Faith is necessary for salvation and must be accompanied by good works, as a sign that one is indeed imbued with faith itself.

Grace--"the name given to the assistance by a loving and compassionate God to those who seek his help. Grace also refers to the mercy of God and his abundant goodwill to men and women of all ages . . . It is this power which sanctifies, gives life and perfects that which is in the church for the benefit of her numbers . . . We must cooperate with his grace . . . if he (who claims the name Christian) does not bear in his heart the conviction that the grace of God, given for faith, is the mercy of God . . . If he does not labor with the aim of receiving the grace of God, first of all through baptism, or if he had it and it departed by reason of his sin, to cause it to return again through repentance, confession, and a self belittling life, and if, in giving alms, fasting and performing vigils, prayers and the rest, he thinks he is performing glorious virtues and good deeds valuable in themselves, the labors and exhausts in vain."

Justification--"the process of God for giving the repentant sinner and making him a righteous person. We are unable to gain justification through good works are human merit, since justification is a free gift of God given to the faithful when they respond to His love and truth. True faith is not just belief but a sincere commitment to Christ which is shown forth by works of righteousness.

Salvation--"the term used to describe deliverance from sin and death, union with Christ and abiding with God forever in eternity. Salvation is a process from Baptism until death. It is not an instant movement of "being saved" by pronouncing a simple formula of trust in Jesus as personal Savior. We are saved through faith, a gift from God, but our salvation must show itself in works of righteousness. We gain the grace of salvation through the Mysteries of the Church. St. Paul refers to "working out" once salvation in "fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12)."

Scripture and Tradition--"these are not to be understood as complementary or conflicting authorities in Orthodoxy. The Church does not accept the idea of "autarkeia" or "Sola Scriptura." Orthodoxy sees Holy Scripture was a product of, or fruit, of Tradition. God, in fact does not speak to the Bible alone, since the Fathers were witnesses to the early faith, and along with the liturgy, creed, and decrees of the faith transmit divine Truth to all believers. The Orthodox Church teaches us that the books of the Bible are based on a huge body of oral tradition whose limits are not able to be defined."

 

This I set here because another false claim is made about the Orthodox. That they worship idols. This is false.

Icon--"a painting on wood or other material representing our Lord, the All Holy Virgin, saints, or events in their lives. Icons are produced in all sizes, and may be portable or stationary, e.g., painted on a wall or on iconostasis . . . Orthodox churches are replete with icons and the first action of any believer upon entering the sanctuary will be to reverence the Holy Table by bowing in front of the Holy Doors, and then the icons of our Lord and the Mother of God, and the various saints . . . icons are to be honored and venerated but never worshiped, for that is something reserved for God alone."

If we remember the books of the New Testament named for what is believed to be the Apostles who walked with our Lord, we honor their testimony and recollection of Jesus words in his ministry. We recognize Paul, who was beheaded, martyred, for his preaching of God's truth through Jesus Christ.

Do we worship Paul?

Of course not. Icon's help in a visually inclined society where words bring visual imaginings of what the word is, defines, depicts in reality or imagining. Icon's do the same when there were no camera's present in first century A.D. . Jesus died on the cross. Do any hear wear a cross on a chain?

Jesus spoke in parables which are poems.Often repeating those familiar to the Jews who followed him for being that like unto what were read to them from the Hebrew sacred scrolls in Temple. Remember, Jesus did teach in the Temple. He knew the Hebrew Bible by heart because his Father gave it to us then. As he did that which Christians use now.

The Bible is written with simile, a figure of speech designed to deliver vivid imagery of the message. It is also written using allegory, which is a teaching method delivering a story, a poem, intended to reveal a hidden message , visualization, in the wording. The Bible also incorporates metaphor. Metaphor is a figure of speech which makes an implicit, implied or hidden comparison between two things that are unrelated but share some common characteristics.

Therefore, don't be misled to think Orthodox Christians worship idols when they have never done so. I do not worship the cross that hangs as a tiny wooden pendant about the leather thong about my neck. It reminds me when I feel it against my flesh that I exist as one reborn and my sins covered by the blood that covered the actual cross when Rome crucified the Savior of the world our Holy Spirit Father by his grace sent to be born into the world. And die for the sins of the world taken upon himself on the cross.

It is in the spirit of that sacrifice that I write this hugely long post so as to pray it help deliver even one member here from what is intending to mislead the whole of Worthy from the truth of the heart of Orthodox Christianity. The heart of their faith is God, grace, Jesus, Faith, Scripture, Repentance, Redemption, Baptism, Regeneration, Confession, as we're told to do when we sin, though those are not held against us because we now have an advocate on our behalf in the form of Jesus in Heaven unto the Father.

Why don't we strive to live in community? Rather than permit ourselves to be cleaved by that which hopes to fracture the truth of God in Jesus Christ.

Learn the history of the Orthodox church. The Apostle John-Mark founded what today is called the Eastern Orthodox church. Tell me, which one of you would say, John-Mark did not know Jesus? Then why would you follow that which does not know Orthodox Christianity? Yet hopes you will believe them and turn against the oldest church on God's Earth?

Laus Deo ,

J.

 

Nice job.

[Guest shiloh357]

33 minutes ago, JoshuasonFlower said:

It does my heart good that the member saints here at Worthy are challenging those who are dedicated to condemning the Orthodox faith. In so doing the saints give cause for those committed to demonstrate they know nothing , in their own words as proof, about the Orthodox Christian faith.

No one is condemning those who are in the Orthodox Church.   We are simply pointing out that they do not hold to the authentic biblical Gospel that was preached by the Apostles.   Greek Orthodoxy is not apostolic. They do not teach the Gospel that Paul and the other apostles preached.

 

Quote

For those who would review this thread discussion to this point and take what is said by people here, the opponents of Orthodoxy and those who know we are defending our brothers and sisters in Christ, I would suggest if the time was spent to learn about the Orthodox faith as much as is spent demonstrating no knowledge as some have and continue to, this new schism among the members of Worthy Christians would be averted.

We are taking the time to learn about the Orthodox faith.  And for my part, have been reading even from Orthodox websites.  There is no schism here.   Most of us are in agreement.   It's just two or three people who seem bent upon remaining in a state of denial about the false doctrines of the EOC.

 

Quote

For instance, there is a falsehood promoted in the world that claims the Orthodox Christian church does not believe in “Scripture alone, faith alone, grace alone, and Christ alone”.

There is a favorite go-to information site for many a Christian known as, "Got Questions". Their entry concerning Orthodox Christianity makes the claim the Orthodox church does not hold to those tenets.

Read closely. No Christian holds to those tenets of isolation. Because they are contradictory and would then make the truth of God and Christ conflicting for the irrationality demonstrated in a simple word with four traits affirmed by and within our faith. "Alone". Alone=1.Isolated and lonely.

Grace alone.
Grace, by itself?

No, there must be faith alone. So it is said. Right? But faith isn't alone, all by itself. isolated,  because there is Scripture.

Scripture alone?

Without grace, and faith?

No, grace and faith are requisite for the believer in God and Jesus Christ. Oh, well then there's scripture alone. Scripture all by itself?
From whence was scripture born? Through the giving of God and his divine inspiration that spoke to what amounts to over 40 different authors of his holy word. Scripture all by itself?

Alone?

Or is it a collaboration instead? That which works first by the grace of God the Father to deliver then His Son Jesus? So that his ministry, purpose, death, burial, resurrection, would deliver the message of redemption. Made possible by God' grace first. So that hearing of Jesus, through the oral tradition in the beginning as was the case when Jesus walked, we would then be blessed to read of it with the invention of the printing press that gave God's truth to the world.

God's scriptures, God's breath. Alone? All by itself?

Or did it have a beginning ? How about, Grace, Christ, Faith, Scripture together? That bring us to the light of the world. So that we who are born into a world of sin are not left to die alone without hope. 

 

The reason we say that salvation is be grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone is to distinguish the biblical Gospel from the false, works-based "gospels" of EOC and the RCC.    Both groups will say that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ.  But in their theology, works are also part of the mix.   We use the word "alone," not mean that grace, faith and Christ operate in isolation or are in any separated, but that they operate apart from any mixture of human merit or effort to obtain salvation.   For example, we reject the EOC claim that baptism is necessary for salvation.   Baptism is a commandment, but is not required for salvation.  

And no, the EOC does not believe in Sola Scriptura, and deny the authority of Scripture.

Quote

Another thing that has been claimed falsely is that the Orthodox do not hold to Imputed Righteousness. Another falsehood easily cast aside with truth if one but takes the time and has the respect for sisters and brothers in Christ to read what they have to say about the faith they have been martyred for more than any other Christians.

 Oh no, it is not a false claim.   Even your little quote box backs up what I said.  "What we are saved from is the key issue here. Rather than view salvation primarily as a forensic liberation from guilt through imputed or imparted righteousness, we should see it as incorporation, by baptism, into Christ’s death and resurrection, such that we “die and rise” with Him."  That is a denial of imputed righteousness.  You need to note that they are adding baptism as a requirement, but do not hold to imputed righteousness.  

From a Eastern Orthodox message board. "logizomai does not mean impute. There is nothing in the text of Romans 4 that says that Christ's death on the cross brings about a solely forensic declaration of innocence through imputation of a foreign reputation. For those reasons, EO will reject the protestant teaching of imputation."

 

Quote

 

Learn the history of the Orthodox church. The Apostle John-Mark founded what today is called the Eastern Orthodox church. Tell me, which one of you would say, John-Mark did not know Jesus? Then why would you follow that which does not know Orthodox Christianity? Yet hopes you will believe them and turn against the oldest church on God's Earth?

 

1. They claim that John-Mark founded it.  No evidence of that.

2. Oldest Church on earth?   Doesn't matter.  Simply appealing to age doesn't mean that their doctrine is correct.  There are older false teachings than what come out of the EOC.   Appealing to age is a logical fallacy.

[Guest shiloh357]

http://www.teachingtheword.org/apps/articles/?columnid=6435&articleid=81482

It has been well said that Eastern Orthodoxy is "Roman Catholicism without its papacy and Mariolatry."

A reader asks, "Are Eastern Orthodox practitioners (Russian, Serbian, Greek, Antiochian, Ethiopian, etc.) true Christians? If not, wherein lies their non-adherence to Scripture in their beliefs and practices?"

It has been said that Eastern Orthodoxy is "Roman Catholicism without its papacy and Mariolatry," and that is indeed an apt summary of its theology and practice. Some church historians make much of what is termed the "Great Schism" that occurred in the 11th century between the Western church (centered in Rome) and the Eastern church (centered in Constantinople). But the impetus for that division was not a choice between obedience to the Word of God and the word of man, but rather a choice between two competing sets of that which Scripture repeatedly condemns as "the commandments and doctrines of men."

What really matters, as our reader's question rightly puts it, are not the differences between Rome and Constantinople, but between both of these visible bodies and Holy Scripture. The section of our Bible Knowledgebase on Roman Catholicism deals extensively with that false church's departures from the Word. In this article we shall focus on key elements of Eastern Orthodox theology and practice. Examining just three areas - Eastern Orthodoxy's positions on Scripture, sin, and salvation - tells us all we need to know to reject it as a false faith.

Scripture

Like the Roman Catholic church, the Eastern Orthodox church insists that it is the one true church of Christ on earth. Like Rome, the Eastern Orthodox church also holds to the false doctrine of apostolic succession, claiming that its patriarchs are the latest in an unbroken line of successors to the authority of Christ's apostles. They believe that salvation lies within the Orthodox church alone.

Like the Roman Catholic church, the Eastern Orthodox also reject the doctrine of the authority of Scripture alone, declaring it to be the great heresy of the Reformation. They believe that Protestants in particular have departed from the true faith. Eastern Orthodoxy holds that the single source of revelation is what it terms "holy tradition." This is, in fact, not a single source of "revelation" but an amalgamation of many alleged sources. In addition to Scripture, the Eastern Orthodox church recognizes these forms of man-made tradition as authoritative:

• The writings and decisions of the first seven ecumenical councils, which took place between the 4th and 8th centuries

• The writing and decisions of later church councils through the centuries (which have often conflicted with each other as well as Scripture)

• The writings of so-called church fathers, especially those of the first four centuries A.D.

• Icons made of metal, stone, wood, and cloth which are set up as objects of worship by edict of the church

• The official (and complex) Liturgy which governs the church's worship

• The church's canon law, consisting of laws, regulations, and commentaries on the various elements of "holy tradition." Canon law not only governs the activities of th church but also claims a degree of authority in matters of state. Eastern Orthodox canon law is known as the Pedalion (Greek for "rudder"), since its purpose is to "steer" the church.

Authentic Christianity, in contrast, tells us to reject the commandments and doctrines of men:

Now this I say lest anyone should deceive you with persuasive words. For though I am absent in the flesh, yet I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good order and the steadfastness of your faith in Christ. As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving. Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. (Colossians 2:4-10)

Sin

The Eastern Orthodox church rejects the Bible's teaching that man is in spiritual bondage due to the corruption of his nature through the fall of Adam. Therefore the Eastern Orthodox church also rejects the doctrine of the imputed guilt of all mankind, having sinned in Adam. Eastern Orthodoxy teaches that men are guilty only for their own sins rather than being already under condemnation as a consequence of Adam's fall, before they have done any good or evil of their own.

Authentic Christianity, in contrast, declares the doctrine of original sin and the guilt of all men in Adam, and the necessity of the person and work of Christ as the Second Adam who redeems them from that condemnation:

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned - (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous. (Romans 5:12-19)

Like Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy teaches the necessity of confession of sin to a human priestly mediator in order for the individual to maintain his salvation, and teaches that the Eucharist is a propitiatory sacrifice for confessed sins in addition to the sacrifice of Christ on the cross.

Authentic Christianity, in marked contrast, declares the priesthood of Christ alone, who has made full and final atonement for sin:

For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time... (1 Timothy 2:5-6)

For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people's, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints the Son who has been perfected forever. (Hebrews 7:26-28)

Salvation

Like Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy holds that salvation commences with water baptism. Eastern Orthodox theology falsely claims that no one can be saved unless he is baptized with water.

Like Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy teaches that man is able to cooperate with God in bringing about his salvation, and that regeneration is the product of a synergistic effort of God and man. Like Romanism, Eastern Orthodoxy rejects the doctrine of justification by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone as heresy.

The operative word describing salvation in Eastern Orthodox theology is theosis - "becoming God". This term describes an alleged progressive transformation of the individual into full likeness to God, in both soul and body, through a cooperative effort involving faith and good works. Like Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy denies the distinction between justification (God's unilateral act in declaring a sinner righteous based on faith in the merits of Christ alone - Romans 5) and sanctification (the indwelling Spirit of God conforming the regenerated individual more and more to the image of Christ, a work consummated in the believer's glorification - Romans 8). In fact, Eastern Orthodoxy's false doctrine of theosis additionally conflates regeneration with justification and sanctification.

Authentic Christianity, in marked contrast, declares the great doctrines of grace:

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. (Romans 5:1-2)

For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation. (Romans 5:6-11)

Conclusion

The Eastern Orthodox church deviates from authentic Biblical Christianity in many other respects, but the foregoing are adequate to demonstrate that a great gulf exists between that which God requires according to Scripture, and that which Eastern Orthodoxy requires according to its man-made doctrines. The difference between the two is the difference between Heaven and Hell for a lost sinner.

But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men. But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. (Titus 3:4-9)

http://www.teachingtheword.org/apps/articles/?columnid=6435&articleid=81482

[JoshuasonFlower]

1 hour ago, Yowm said:

@JoshuasonFlower Thank you for your defense of the Eastern Orthodox Church.

Since you claim that the E.O. holds to Sola Scriptura, can you provide evidence from Scripture that icons are inspired and  are a window into heaven?

Scripture tells me that we enter through the blood of Jesus Christ by faith. (not by sight)

 That falsehood does not magnify my God. Does it yours?
How terribly unfortunate you did not read a word of truth that I shared.

Glōria in excelsīs Deō,

J.

50 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

Nice job.

Thank you brother.

Edited April 22, 2017 by JoshuasonFlower

[Willa]

1 hour ago, Yowm said:

@JoshuasonFlower Thank you for your defense of the Eastern Orthodox Church.

Since you claim that the E.O. holds to Sola Scriptura, can you provide evidence from Scripture that icons are inspired and  are a window into heaven?

Scripture tells me that we enter through the blood of Jesus Christ by faith. (not by sight)

"Scripture and Tradition--"these are not to be understood as complementary or conflicting authorities in Orthodoxy. The Church does not accept the idea of "autarkeia" or "Sola Scriptura." Orthodoxy sees Holy Scripture was a product of, or fruit, of Tradition. God, in fact does not speak to the Bible alone, since the Fathers were witnesses to the early faith, and along with the liturgy, creed, and decrees of the faith transmit divine Truth to all believers. The Orthodox Church teaches us that the books of the Bible are based on a huge body of oral tradition whose limits are not able to be defined."

This denies Sola Scriptura.  It fails to give credit to the Holy Spirit for inspiring the Scriptures but instead credits oral tradition.  This disturbs me.  In most cases the Orthodox Church does give more credit to the Holy Spirit in it doctrines that I have read.  But in this case, which is very important, it points to tradition as the inspiration of Scripture.  If I had to choose between RC and Orthodox, the latter may be better.  But Sola Scriptura  God breathed by the Holy Spirit is a very important doctrine to me.  

[JoshuasonFlower]

21 minutes ago, Willa said:

"Scripture and Tradition--"these are not to be understood as complementary or conflicting authorities in Orthodoxy. The Church does not accept the idea of "autarkeia" or "Sola Scriptura." Orthodoxy sees Holy Scripture was a product of, or fruit, of Tradition. God, in fact does not speak to the Bible alone, since the Fathers were witnesses to the early faith, and along with the liturgy, creed, and decrees of the faith transmit divine Truth to all believers. The Orthodox Church teaches us that the books of the Bible are based on a huge body of oral tradition whose limits are not able to be defined."

This denies Sola Scriptura.  It fails to give credit to the Holy Spirit for inspiring the Scriptures but instead credits oral tradition.  This disturbs me.  In most cases the Orthodox Church does give more credit to the Holy Spirit in it doctrines that I have read.  But in this case, which is very important, it points to tradition as the inspiration of Scripture.  If I had to choose between RC and Orthodox, the latter may be better.  But Sola Scriptura  God breathed by the Holy Spirit is a very important doctrine to me.  

Orthodox Christian Information Center

The Doctrine of the Orthodox Church: The Basic Doctrines

THE HOLY SPIRIT

The gift of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost "called all men into unity," according to the Byzantine liturgical hymn of the day; into this new unity, which St. Paul called the "body of Christ," each individual Christian enters through Baptism and "chrismation" (the Eastern form of the Western "confirmation") when the priest anoints him saying "the seal of the gift of the Holy Spirit."

This gift, however, requires man's free response. Orthodox saints such as Seraphim of Sarov (died 1833) described the entire content of Christian life as a "collection of the Holy Spirit." The Holy Spirit is thus conceived as the main agent of man's restoration to his original natural state through Communion in Christ's body. This role of the Spirit is reflected, very richly, in a variety of liturgical and sacramental acts. Every act of worship usually starts with a prayer addressed to the Spirit, and all major sacraments begin with an invocation to the Spirit. The eucharistic liturgies of the East attribute the ultimate mystery of Christ's Presence to a descent of the Spirit upon the worshipping congregation and upon the eucharistic bread and wine. The significance of this invocation (in Greek epiklesis) was violently debated between Greek and Latin Christians in the Middle Ages because the Roman canon of the mass lacked any reference to the Spirit and was thus considered as deficient by the Orthodox Greeks.

Since the Council of Constantinople (381), which condemned the Pneumatomachians ("fighters against the Spirit"), no one in the Orthodox East has ever denied that the Spirit is not only a "gift" but also the giver—i.e., that he is the third Person of the holy Trinity. The Greek Fathers saw in Gen. 1:2 a reference to the Spirit's cooperation in the divine act of creation; the Spirit was also viewed as active in the "new creation" that occurred in the womb of the Virgin Mary when she became the mother of Christ (Luke 1:35); and finally, Pentecost was understood to be an anticipation of the "last days" (Acts 2:17) when, at the end of history, a universal communion with God will be achieved. Thus, all the decisive acts of God are accomplished "by the Father in the Son, through the Holy Spirit."

[JoshuasonFlower]

The Doctrine of the Orthodox Church: Outline of Topics

The Nicene Creed

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible;
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-Begotten, begotten of the Father before all worlds,
Light of Light, Very God of Very God, begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father; by Whom all things were made:
Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and was made man;
And was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried;
The third day He arose again, according to the Scriptures;
And ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father;
And He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead;
Whose Kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, Who proceeds from the Father;
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, Who spoke by the prophets.

And I believe in One Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sin.
I look for the Resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen.

 

Please don't point to the picture shared here from the Orthodox Christianity information site and think, "IDOL!"

Has anyone here ever watched a movie about Jesus Christ? "Passion of the Christ"? Jim Caviezel played Christ. Do we worship the image of Jim Caviezel? Do we worship Diogo Morgado? The Portuguese actor who played Jesus in, "Son of God"? Don't let imagery of Jesus distract you from the truth my sisters and brothers. Orthodox Christians do not worship icons nor idols.

We believe in God, the almighty creator of heaven and earth.

We believe in the triunity of God. We believe that God is eternally One, and also eternally the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit — the three being distinct, but not separate. Each Person of the Godhead coexists from everlasting to everlasting.

We believe in the Messiah, Jesus, God’s only begotten son, God come in the flesh. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate. He was crucified, died and buried. On the third day, He rose again. Soon afterward He ascended into heaven. Now He is seated at the right hand of the Father and He will return to judge both the living and the dead and reign for evermore.

We believe all mankind are sinful and are therefore subject to God’s wrath and condemnation.

We believe that everyone is in need of God’s salvation. Mankind is absolutely unable to fulfill the heavy demands of God’s righteousness, holiness and glory. Therefore, God, in sending His Only Begotten Son, has accomplished redemption for us through the shedding of Jesus’ blood. Because of His Son’s death, God has forgiven us of our sins, reconciled us to Himself, and justified us by making Him our righteousness.

We believe that salvation is a gift received by faith alone, in Messiah alone, and is expressed in the individual’s recognition and repentance of sin, and the acceptance of the risen Messiah as Saviour, Lord and God.

We believe in the supreme Lordship of Jesus Christ, before whom every knee in heaven and on earth will bow. And that there is no other name under Heaven by which we can approach the holy throne of God. Jesus Christ is the one and only mediator between God and man.

We believe that immediately upon death, the soul of the believer is absent from the body, and present with the Lord.

We believe in the ongoing work of sanctification by the Holy Spirit after redemption for the purpose of producing life changing fruit — love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and self-control.

We believe that the 66 books of the Canon, from Genesis to Revelation are the exhaustive, inerrant and inspired word of God.

[LovelyJoni]

I do not like this pulpit & pen guy, I don't believe the Lord has called anyone to sit online and pick others apart. Yes we are to have discernment but not to the point where it has become our obsession instead of the love of God. Seems Satan either wants us to have no discernment or to become so obsessed with it we end up attacking our brothers and sisters in Christ. Not edifying at all.

[Guest shiloh357]

48 minutes ago, JoshuasonFlower said:

 

We believe that salvation is a gift received by faith alone, in Messiah alone, and is expressed in the individual’s recognition and repentance of sin, and the acceptance of the risen Messiah as Saviour, Lord and God.

Sorry, but that is simply not true.