Should Women Be In Leadership Positions in Church?

[Wolf Bridges]

Claiming to know God is watching this thread with distaste is a biting weapon that is used to diminish the ideals of others because they are not in accord with the one making presumptions they can speak for God. 

This thread is an example in itself of the holy spirit. Some are sealed but how many are empowered?

[Annette]

4 hours ago, Spock said:

Much of my study now is online through BibleHub.com which allows you to view many different translations of your choosing.  For example, if there is a verse or passage that intrigues me, I will pull up multi translations for that verse and compare. Stuff like that.

mostly, I use NIV. 

Ooops, I didn't answer all of your questions. How do I study the Bible? Well, I just retired a few months ago so now I begin each day with coffee in one hand and Bible in the other. I usually read about 30 minutes. Today I read 1 Timothy. Tomorrow I probably will re-read that and make notes.  I usually take notes in my notebook after each reading. By that I mean, I write my thoughts on something that spoke to me. I will continue reading 1 Timothy until I feel ready to move on. 

Every saturday, my wife and I co-lead a home fellowship group of believers who share our belief to keep the Sabbath Day holy (4th commandment).  Besides prayer and praise, we read two chapters in the OT and two chapters in the NT.  Sometimes only one if we have so much conversation on just the one. We just finished 1 Chronicles and moved into 2 Chronicles. We are winding down Matthews Gospel and we have chosen the book of Acts next.  We decide. 

I also have reference books to assist my personal study like atlases or complete guide of the Bible to assist, stuff like that. 

And of course, I google lots of topics that I want more info on throughout my study. For example, the last topic I wanted to read more on was- the book of Enoch. 

Anyhow, I hope this helps. 

Spock

Thank you, Spock, for sharing this. I do enjoy finding out how other people read and study the Bible. I like the idea of going through something and giving it time before moving on to another chapter or book of the Bible. Just last year I began to write down some of my thoughts while reading, and I was glad that I did do that, as writing seemed to slow my study time down a bit, and got me to stop and think about what I was reading.

 

I think it is great that you and your wife offer a study together for other people. A while back we went to a church with friends, where they were working through the Bible chapter by chapter. I was amazed by how full the church was, not only with older people but with teenagers and young children too. 

Bible and coffee, a great way to start the day...

Blessings.

[Wolf Bridges]

Women Prophets in the Bible

 

God's will calls women to be pastors. We know this because there are successful blessed pastors in this world. None are so blind as those who refuse to see. There is no scripture that says God will never call a woman to prophecy . God called women as prophets but there's a segment of society that thinks God would not call women to preach what had arrived as prophecy fulfilled. That is their error and nothing will move them from it. Not even the truth that Paul's letters were to the churches of the time. His letters to the churches he founded. That is why they are demarcated as pastoral epistles. A pastor's letters to the churches under his management. And even then , Paul wasn't saying women cannot preach. 

All that has been said time and again and does not bear repeating when it is ignored repeatedly. 

The mistake the world makes is to imagine God has human faults. God calls women to preach. Those who do not accept that will have to live with that idea that God thinks women aren't able to preach his word after he knew they were worthy of his son dying for their sins. 

Why argue with those who limit God to their prejudice? 

[Annette]

2 hours ago, Giller said:

Now let us compare 3 offices of the church.

1Ti 3:1-3
(1)  This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
(2)  A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
(3)  Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
 

Tit 1:5-8
(5)  For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:
(6)  If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
(7)  For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
(8)  But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
 

1Ti 3:12-13
(12)  Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
(13)  For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
 

Now the word bishop means overseer, and is one in an office to were they oversee the church, in a leadership role, in some fashion.

Now the office of an elder, and the office of a Bishop, go hand in hand, for it associates the office of an elder,in Titus 1:5, with the office of a Bishop (Titus 1:7).

And then there is the office of a deacon, which means servant.

NOW CONCERNING ALL OF THESE OFFICES, IT MENTIONS FOR THEM TO BE THE HUSBAND, WHICH REFERS TO SPECIFICALLY A MAN, AND NOT A WOMAN.

But then people tend to use bible versions, to disharmonise these scriptures.

Here are examples.

N.I.V	K.J.V	Amplified
Romans 16:1 1 I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon[a][b] of the church in Cenchreae.	Rom 16:1 (1)  I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:	Romans 16:1 1 Now I introduce and commend to you our sister [a]Phoebe, a deaconess (servant) of the church at [b]Cenchrea,

 

The bible clearly shows for men to be a deacon, and in the KJV bible, it shows for Phebe to be just a servant, but the NIV, and Amplified, shows Phebe as being a deacon, which scripture harmonizes more with the office of a deacon, the KJV, or NIV and Amplified?

Obviously the KJV.

And it only says that Phebe was a servant, and does not specify in any way of a specific office.

And the argument might be made, well aren't we all servants?

Well of course we are, but obviously they recognized the servanthood in her.

And here is what Paul and Peter says:

2Pe 1:1
(1)  Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Tit 1:1
(1)  Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

And then there is the argument of the elect lady.

2Jn 1:1
(1)  The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;

The elder is referring to John, and concerning the elect lady, it does not say in which way she was elect, so why make a doctrine out of it, when it is not specific enough?

And I will end with this scripture.

1Ti 2:12
(12)  But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Now this is not referring to complete silence, but rather silent in the realm of a leadership role.

Women can spread the gospel, and be used in many ways, just not in a spiritual, leadership role.
 

Thank you, Giller, for the time you have put into your answers here. I look forward to coming back to it and reading your answers again. Blessings.

[Wolf Bridges]

On 4/22/2017 at 11:53 PM, Annette said:

I love a number of ministries led by women and know of some amazing women speakers. A friend of mine told me that it is not right for women to have that roll, tries and if they do, they should not be surprised when a man does not respond as the leader may expect. Should it matter whether a man or tries to get a similar message across?

P.S. Thank you guys for your thoughts and input. I am not sure how to answer each of you, but have been reading through what you wrote. Blessings.

Maybe bring to your friends attention the pastoral letter Paul wrote to the church in Thessalonica.  1 Thessalonians 5. 

12.Now we ask you, brothers and sisters, to acknowledge those who work hard among you, who care for you in the Lord and who admonish you.¹³ Hold them in the highest regard in love because of their work. Live in peace with each other. ¹⁴ And we urge you, brothers and sisters, warn those who are idle and disruptive, encourage the disheartened, help the weak, be patient with everyone. ¹⁵ Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always strive to do what is good for each other and for everyone else.

Notice he isn't saying the men among you. He's speaking to brothers and sisters of brothers and sisters that work hard among them. And he admonishes to not be disruptive, as you said your friend would say wouldn't be a surprise from a man happening on a woman pastor. Instead , Paul told his church to make sure they always strive to do what is good for each other and everyone else. Don't pay wrong for wrong. 

You won't change anyone's mind who is prejudice against women pastors. If they invoke God as agreeing with them they can abdicate responsibility for segregation that is not of Christ among his church family. God calls whom he will to his service in all things. No one alive can say God agrees with their prejudice. God is no respecter of persons. His word says that too. 

 

This may be of help too. 

Apostle to the Apostles:
The Women Disciples of Jesus

Shawna R. B. Atteberry

[Wolf Bridges]

3 hours ago, Churchmouse said:

Sarcasm is a biting weapon that is used to diminish the ideals of others. In this case it is those who have presented their case, some using scripture to back up their claims. God is not smiling at what is happening here because it has to do with understanding his will.

You do not speak for God. 

[Churchmouse]

9 minutes ago, Wolf Bridges said:

You do not speak for God. 

When has a father ever smiled at his children disrespecting one another?

[Wolf Bridges]

37 minutes ago, Churchmouse said:

When has a father ever smiled at his children disrespecting one another?

That introspection should cause you to stop. Don't you think?

[Wolf Bridges]

On 5/17/2017 at 4:47 AM, Limey_Bob said:

This husband and wife team can't be a good biblical example, as YWAM is now mixing Christianity with the occult.

Show proof of that. 

[hmbld]

4 hours ago, Wolf Bridges said:

Women Prophets in the Bible

 

God's will calls women to be pastors. We know this because there are successful blessed pastors in this world. None are so blind as those who refuse to see. There is no scripture that says God will never call a woman to prophecy . God called women as prophets but there's a segment of society that thinks God would not call women to preach what had arrived as prophecy fulfilled. That is their error and nothing will move them from it. Not even the truth that Paul's letters were to the churches of the time. His letters to the churches he founded. That is why they are demarcated as pastoral epistles. A pastor's letters to the churches under his management. And even then , Paul wasn't saying women cannot preach. 

All that has been said time and again and does not bear repeating when it is ignored repeatedly. 

The mistake the world makes is to imagine God has human faults. God calls women to preach. Those who do not accept that will have to live with that idea that God thinks women aren't able to preach his word after he knew they were worthy of his son dying for their sins. 

Why argue with those who limit God to their prejudice? 

How do you equate prophets with pastors?  While it is nice to say things that make one feel good, the Truth can only come from scripture, not what we reason God should do.  Many successful people have nothing to do with God.