The Word of God (Savior or Scripture?)

[Absolem]

I like to think the bible is compiled the way it is for a reason. Yeah man did it but when has God been subject to human will?

Edited May 2, 2017 by Absolem

[Happinessity]

On 4/30/2017 at 10:50 PM, Fidei Defensor said:

That is perspective I am very familiar with. I once saw it that way until I learned the perspective I've presented.   

I like the perspective you're presenting here. It makes sense really. Especially the differences between the word of God and God as The Word, in scripture. 

 

[JohnD]

The Word of God (Savior or Scripture?)

 

Both!

 

[Fidei Defensor]

4 hours ago, Happinessity said:

I like the perspective you're presenting here. It makes sense really. Especially the differences between the word of God and God as The Word, in scripture. 

 

I am glad this has blessed you.

I think Scripture itself makes it clear, "For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart." (Hebrews 4:12). I always ask with respect, how can the Bible (66 Books) judge my thoughts and attitudes? The Prophet Jeremiah says, ""I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve." (Jeremiah 17:10). We know the LORD is Jesus (Romans 10:9, Philippians 2:11, Colossians 1:19, Colossians 2:9, John 10:30, John 17:20-30), and we know Jesus lives in us believers (Colossians 1:27, 1 Corinthians 3:16), so it stans to reason that the Word of God here is definitely Jesus, not the Scriptures (though they come from Him 2 Timothy 3:16).
 

[Your closest friendnt]

18 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

I am glad this has blessed you.

I think Scripture itself makes it clear, "For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart." (Hebrews 4:12). I always ask with respect, how can the Bible (66 Books) judge my thoughts and attitudes? The Prophet Jeremiah says, ""I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve." (Jeremiah 17:10). We know the LORD is Jesus (Romans 10:9, Philippians 2:11, Colossians 1:19, Colossians 2:9, John 10:30, John 17:20-30), and we know Jesus lives in us believers (Colossians 1:27, 1 Corinthians 3:16), so it stans to reason that the Word of God here is definitely Jesus, not the Scriptures (though they come from Him 2 Timothy 3:16).
 

I like the way you are explained you explain and communicate. 

You cultivate and you do not judge. 

I have a question to ask, so to speak. 

I have the word of my mother in me, the teachers, the doctors, because I heard them  talking to me and I kept their words in my heart, and also I have a memory. 

But the words of guidance which are dear to me, I keep them in my heart . 

Also If read a book any book and I find something that is good, and perhaps the author wrote his thoughts, and he never has spoken the things he wrote, just exactly as I do myself now. 

I may paraphrase what I have kept in my heart , keeping the principal and the essence , so I don't need to memorize the specific words, and a lot I do. 

And I have tehnick kept in my heart or in me, which I use to help me distinguish matters. 

I heard that Paul wrote to Timothy, bringing to his attention , that all the Scriptures have a message to give, and for some propose. 

I ask myself did Paul sent to Timothy a copy of a Bible, that included the writing of the other disciples, with a note, I have read those letters and these are my comments, or did he give him a list of what ever it was part of his context within the meaning of "Scriptures". 

Those two men, were friends for quite some time, and they had a lot of discussions, so Paul when he used the word Scriptures to Timothy, he did not have to include the context of it, because from their previous discussions Timothy connected to what Paul is referring to. 

I don't mind that today the word "Scriptures " has evolved and has a different context that those two brothers had in their minds.

What I mind is, that they use this reference of Paul to Timothy as a means to promote the Bible as it is today, including the book of Revelation.

It projects the hidden thoughts and intentions of the heart. 

They already have conceived a consept in them selves, and they are convinced that if they attached some Scriptures to it, that they justified and promote their message from being a biblical message bless by the Holy Spirit. 

Studying JESUS and the disciples, I can see that they never used this manipulation of the Scriptures to give their message, some times they referred to the prophets and the Phalms, and to the stories in the Torah, many times they looked at the knowledge the audience had and how they relate to those things, and used them as an example. 

I distance my self, when someone gives me Scriptures for a response, judging what they don't want to take the time to understand. ( They never asks questions for clarification, or give their thoughts on the points of the discussion). 

Paul who was very well versed in the Torah, the prophets and the Palms, and other contemporary wrightings, he did not give a bunch of Scriptures to Timothy,  he instruct Timothy who had problems with the people in his ministry, to study the "Scriptures", not for the need to learn and follow the Jewish culture, but for the lessons in them, and as he does, the Holy Spirit will teach him, many things , not only about things related to our faith, but about how to understand the people and his own self better, so not too feel discourse, and he gave him his own insight on how to deal with his situation. 

Even Moses was not accepted and he had to deal with rebellions, and how about Jesus himself, David how he was opposed by his own children and many others who did opposed him, but how the Lord later restore things to him. 

Paul was encouraged Timothy to look ahead and not to be drag by his problems, he tried to help him with his depression, his discouragement. 

To learn to look to Jesus for help and not to depend on his own abilities. 

Thank you, that's enough , I am not writing a book. 

[Fidei Defensor]

12 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

I like the way you are explained you explain and communicate. 

You cultivate and you do not judge. 

I have learned from the Master a long time ago, "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?" (Matthew 7:1-3). If you are going to sow seed, you need to be able to receive seed (food for thought). Of course you should always stand by your convictions (Romans 14:23, James 4:17), but its always good to hear the opposite point of view or a different view.

[Your closest friendnt]

21 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

I have learned from the Master a long time ago, "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?" (Matthew 7:1-3). If you are going to sow seed, you need to be able to receive seed (food for thought). Of course you should always stand by your convictions (Romans 14:23, James 4:17), but its always good to hear the opposite point of view or a different view.

You are very special to Jesus Christ, so I think , you will never call someone a false prophet, because they are the learning stage, if I can say that, Paul learned how to oposse first before he believed, so he is able to understand those who oppose, and he could minister to them like no one else could.

Paul learned to lean on the Lord, or the Holy Spirit, who can discern the deep thoughts in people who pretending to be his friends their intentions were to spy on him, or looking for an opportunity to harm him. 

So he could warn Paul , or stir him or them away from their harm, so to speak. 

JESUS on many occasions, he could discern what people were thinking, even before he met them. 

One time he said to his disciples, let's get away from them, they have theirs own things in mind. They want me just for their agenda, they want me to follow them, they make plans for me, they draft my future. Or they fortell my future doings. 

This is an encoded message, we should leave the leadership to Ceasar, and the stiring of Jesus boat to him, he knows the way, and he knows his future doings. 

Looking forward to learn a lot for the reachness of your blessings. 

[Fidei Defensor]

1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said:

You are very special to Jesus Christ, so I think , you will never call someone a false prophet, because they are the learning stage, if I can say that, Paul learned how to oposse first before he believed, so he is able to understand those who oppose, and he could minister to them like no one else could.

Paul learned to lean on the Lord, or the Holy Spirit, who can discern the deep thoughts in people who pretending to be his friends their intentions were to spy on him, or looking for an opportunity to harm him. 

So he could warn Paul , or stir him or them away from their harm, so to speak. 

JESUS on many occasions, he could discern what people were thinking, even before he met them. 

One time he said to his disciples, let's get away from them, they have theirs own things in mind. They want me just for their agenda, they want me to follow them, they make plans for me, they draft my future. Or they fortell my future doings. 

This is an encoded message, we should leave the leadership to Ceasar, and the stiring of Jesus boat to him, he knows the way, and he knows his future doings. 

Looking forward to learn a lot for the reachness of your blessings. 

Indeed, well said. I have noticed how semantics and how words are precieved can change a whole conversation. For instance, the word veneration can be to some the word "worship" but to others it can mean to "honor, to honor their memory." Another case is the word anointing, for one person this is a spiritual dispensation or authority given by laying on of hands, another it is simply the act of anointing with oil as the kings and prophets of Israel were anointed, or anointed can specifically the Messiah (Christ, the anointed One), and finally anointed can be that a person has anointed speech, or speaks with authority, "The people were amazed at his teaching, because he taught them as one who had authority, not as the teachers of the law." (Mark 1:22).

Jesus indeed could read men's thoughts (Matthew 9:4, ), because He is LORD (Romans 10:9, Philippians 2:11), and the LORD reads men's thoughts (Jeremiah 17:10).

[daughterofGrace]

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 7:57 PM, Yowm said:

Wouldn't you say that the Jews such as Jesus, Paul, Peter, John etc., already knew which Hebrew text was 'canon' and which weren't. I don't think it took the Church 250 years or so later to announce that. 

Yes.  You're absolutely right, Yowm.  Thank you for pointing that out.  The date I gave was the date by which the Hebrew books were made official -- just as the 363 date was the date by which the New Testament books were made official.  There was certainly acceptance and understanding of their being God's Word before the dates when the Christian Church officially canonized them.

[daughterofGrace]

Just now, Yowm said:

I understand  and Jesus' stamp of approval along with the then Jewish community's approval  means much more to me than an ecclesiastical seal of approval in the 4th century when it comes to the canon of the OT.

And rightfully so, Yowm!   I agree totally.

I think the church decided to make these things official because there were heretics running around making claims that had nothing to do with God or His Word.  They wanted there to be an official, sanctified standard by which all teachings (and their teachers) could be measured.  They wanted people NOT to be lead astray.