The Tribulation?

[Heb 13:8]

3 hours ago, OneLight said:

Revelation 20:11-15

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.  And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.  The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.  Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.  And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Seems to me that Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them.

I have to ask, and not in an accusing manner, do you believe in soul sleep?

I do believe in soul sleep. Hades is translated the "grave", it's not a temporary place where people are alive and wait for judgment. 

Job 34:14 If it were his intention and he withdrew his spirit and breath,

Job 34:15 all humanity would perish together and mankind would return to the dust.

[wingnut-]

11 hours ago, inchrist said:

This is a perfect example of doctrine twisting scripture

 

Which doctrine is that exactly?

I really don't know what you believe because you aren't saying what it is.  Do you believe the soul decays in the ground along with the flesh?  Or gets burned up in the furnace for those who are cremated?  Paul is pretty clear that the glorified body doesn't happen until His coming, and everyone gets those in the same moment.

And who are the group in heaven that John sees and hears asking how much longer they have to wait and being clothed with white robes?  They were killed, we know that much, so what are they doing there?  What exactly are they?  Since they can't be in the natural body and the glorified body comes later, what do you call their state of being?

[wingnut-]

1 hour ago, Heb 13:8 said:

I do believe in soul sleep. Hades is translated the "grave", it's not a temporary place where people are alive and wait for judgment. 

Job 34:14 If it were his intention and he withdrew his spirit and breath,

Job 34:15 all humanity would perish together and mankind would return to the dust.

 

Returns to dust, isn't that exactly what happens to the natural body?

 

Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.”

[Heb 13:8]

27 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

 

Returns to dust, isn't that exactly what happens to the natural body?

 

Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.”

It does. Our soul exists because of our bodies. God breathed His Spirit into our bodies and created our soul. You have a soul correct?

Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return.”

[wingnut-]

39 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

It does. Our soul exists because of our bodies. God breathed His Spirit into our bodies and created our soul. You have a soul correct?

Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return.”

 

So you think when the body decays in the ground the soul decays with it?

[Heb 13:8]

7 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

So you think when the body decays in the ground the soul decays with it?

No, the body decays, but the soul is asleep until first resurrection. At first resurrection, God will breathe the breath of life back into us. There, our soul and body will become alive again, similar to how the two witnesses are raised up..

Gen 2:7 Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

1 Thess 4:13-17 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

Rev 11:11 But after the three and a half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them.

[wingnut-]

6 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

No, the body decays, but the soul is asleep until first resurrection. At first resurrection, God will breathe the breath of life back into us. There, our soul and body will become alive again, similar to how the two witnesses are raised up..

Gen 2:7 Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

1 Thess 4:13-17 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

Rev 11:11 But after the three and a half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them.

 

So the body decays and the soul just hangs out underground.  What about people who are cremated, are their souls hanging out in the crematorium furnace or do they get scooped up in the urns?

[Heb 13:8]

1 minute ago, wingnut- said:

So the body decays and the soul just hangs out underground.

No, the soul is sleeping. Sleeping is just another word for "dead". You can't hang out if you're dead.

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What about people who are cremated, are their souls hanging out in the crematorium furnace or do they get scooped up in the urns?

Are you underestimating the power of God? Read Genesis 1.

[wingnut-]

1 minute ago, Heb 13:8 said:

No, the soul is sleeping. Sleeping is just another word for "dead". You can't hang out if you're dead.

Are you underestimating the power of God? Read Genesis 1.

 

So the soul is dead?

No, I am not underestimating the power of God, I would say you are.

Out of curiosity, has Jesus taken you to heaven and shown you around?  If not, what makes you think you know more than John who was taken there?

[Heb 13:8]

1 minute ago, wingnut- said:

So the soul is dead?

Yes.

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No, I am not underestimating the power of God, I would say you are.

Give me an example.

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Out of curiosity, has Jesus taken you to heaven and shown you around?  If not, what makes you think you know more than John who was taken there?

Notice Paul and John did not continue to live there.
That's because they weren't in there resurrected bodies yet.
Even Paul felt prematurely born..

1 Cor 15:8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.