OneLight Posted June 1, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 1, 2017 Revelation 20:7-10 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolem Posted June 1, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 433 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 225 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/25/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/24/1990 Author Share Posted June 1, 2017 11 hours ago, wingnut- said: Strange thought isn't it? That's correct though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted June 1, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted June 1, 2017 8 minutes ago, Absolem said: That's correct though? I'm not convinced it's a literal thousand years, we will see when the time comes. II Peter 3:8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted June 1, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 1, 2017 22 minutes ago, wingnut- said: I'm not convinced it's a literal thousand years, we will see when the time comes. II Peter 3:8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. I take the verse you quoted to mean that God is not confined to time as we are. I have seen people take this verse and try to apply it to so many verses in scripture, trying to either stretch a time line or shrink one. I like to believe that God knows what He is saying when He says it a certain way. People, though a lot of study, trying to figure out what the real truth is, can only make sense of scripture if they do this. It's too bad people just can't realize that we will not have all the answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted June 1, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted June 1, 2017 44 minutes ago, OneLight said: I take the verse you quoted to mean that God is not confined to time as we are. I have seen people take this verse and try to apply it to so many verses in scripture, trying to either stretch a time line or shrink one. I like to believe that God knows what He is saying when He says it a certain way. People, though a lot of study, trying to figure out what the real truth is, can only make sense of scripture if they do this. It's too bad people just can't realize that we will not have all the answers. I agree with you on that, but it is a verse that appears amidst Peter discussing the end times. That's why I said we will see when the time comes. My issue with this being literal is based on the premise that Jesus could rule with an iron scepter and that His reign would end in revolt and rebellion. He is perfect after all, so that is why I have my doubts regarding a literal interpretation of a thousand years. Not something I want to debate, but would love to hear a suitable answer as to how His reign with an iron scepter could end no differently than man's has. I'm still waiting for the Lord to give me clarification one way or the other, and I understand that may never happen because as you said, we will not have all the answers. My faith rests in that whatever His plan is, it will be perfect. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted June 1, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 1, 2017 45 minutes ago, wingnut- said: I agree with you on that, but it is a verse that appears amidst Peter discussing the end times. That's why I said we will see when the time comes. My issue with this being literal is based on the premise that Jesus could rule with an iron scepter and that His reign would end in revolt and rebellion. He is perfect after all, so that is why I have my doubts regarding a literal interpretation of a thousand years. Not something I want to debate, but would love to hear a suitable answer as to how His reign with an iron scepter could end no differently than man's has. I'm still waiting for the Lord to give me clarification one way or the other, and I understand that may never happen because as you said, we will not have all the answers. My faith rests in that whatever His plan is, it will be perfect. God bless Satan, having been bound for 1000 years, and his minions placed in the lake of fire, diminishes sin from being so prevalent. Why do you think that when God states a specific length of time that He does not mean it. God is not an author of confusion. Not wanting to argue about it either, just trying to understand. Notice that when Satan is released, he find so many people that Revelation 20:8 says "whose number is as the sand of the sea." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted June 1, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted June 1, 2017 37 minutes ago, OneLight said: Satan, having been bound for 1000 years, and his minions placed in the lake of fire, diminishes sin from being so prevalent. Why do you think that when God states a specific length of time that He does not mean it. God is not an author of confusion. Not wanting to argue about it either, just trying to understand. Notice that when Satan is released, he find so many people that Revelation 20:8 says "whose number is as the sand of the sea." That's a large part of why it doesn't sit well. A number of people so large that it is compared to the sand of the sea is startling in it's size. These people have lived under His perfect reign for a thousand years, and that many will revolt? It sounds like more will turn on Him than will abide in Him to me. I don't think that He doesn't mean a specific length of time when He says it, but on the flip side of that people will argue that the Day of the Lord is some indeterminate amount of time and for some reason most are ok with that. As it stands I am not saying it is not a thousand years, just that it doesn't sit well with me, which is why I have asked the Lord for understanding because no person has to this point provided a satisfactory answer as to how His reign can end in revolt. I am completely receptive to explanations and would prefer to be able to resolve the issue I see with it. I know God is not an author of confusion, that is what the enemy does, but the fact remains there are serious issues with a literal application. These are several serious issues as I see it. 1. He is perfect, so how can His reign with an iron scepter end in such a large revolt? 2. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, so how can animal sacrifices suddenly be re-instated? 3. Following the 7th trumpet we are told the time has come for rewarding the saints and prophets, judging the dead, and more. The 7th trumpet is the 3rd woe, which comes quickly after the 2nd woe. How can it come quickly with a thousand years in between the two? That's a larger gap than between the first two woes which at most is a 3 1/2 year period. Given all of these things, it becomes more and more problematic to take it as a literal thousand years. So that is why I have my doubts, because it appears to contradict scripture in so many other ways. I am fine with whatever the plan is, once He comes and takes me home what follows is going to be all good with me. I hope this gives you a better understanding of where I am coming from. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted June 1, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 1, 2017 1 minute ago, wingnut- said: 49 minutes ago, OneLight said: Satan, having been bound for 1000 years, and his minions placed in the lake of fire, diminishes sin from being so prevalent. Why do you think that when God states a specific length of time that He does not mean it. God is not an author of confusion. Not wanting to argue about it either, just trying to understand. Notice that when Satan is released, he find so many people that Revelation 20:8 says "whose number is as the sand of the sea." That's a large part of why it doesn't sit well. A number of people so large that it is compared to the sand of the sea is startling in it's size. These people have lived under His perfect reign for a thousand years, and that many will revolt? It sounds like more will turn on Him than will abide in Him to me. I don't think that He doesn't mean a specific length of time when He says it, but on the flip side of that people will argue that the Day of the Lord is some indeterminate amount of time and for some reason most are ok with that. As it stands I am not saying it is not a thousand years, just that it doesn't sit well with me, which is why I have asked the Lord for understanding because no person has to this point provided a satisfactory answer as to how His reign can end in revolt. I am completely receptive to explanations and would prefer to be able to resolve the issue I see with it. I know God is not an author of confusion, that is what the enemy does, but the fact remains there are serious issues with a literal application. These are several serious issues as I see it. 1. He is perfect, so how can His reign with an iron scepter end in such a large revolt? 2. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice, so how can animal sacrifices suddenly be re-instated? 3. Following the 7th trumpet we are told the time has come for rewarding the saints and prophets, judging the dead, and more. The 7th trumpet is the 3rd woe, which comes quickly after the 2nd woe. How can it come quickly with a thousand years in between the two? That's a larger gap than between the first two woes which at most is a 3 1/2 year period. Given all of these things, it becomes more and more problematic to take it as a literal thousand years. So that is why I have my doubts, because it appears to contradict scripture in so many other ways. I am fine with whatever the plan is, once He comes and takes me home what follows is going to be all good with me. I hope this gives you a better understanding of where I am coming from. God bless God, in the beginning, created everything that was created and He said it was good. Yet, man, through his ability to make choices for himself, turned from God. There were only two of them at that time, yet they both turned - 100% rejection factor. When Jesus returns, He will set up reign for 1000 years the same way He created all that was created. Being that there will be more then just 2 people at this time, why does this startle you when the number to us, is uncountable? Think of it this way, if man, even after walking with God Himself, disobeys and turns from God, why do you think man will be any different when Jesus reigns? Didn't Jesus tell us in His gospels ""Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." "? So, yes, many will continue to turn from Jesus even when He reigns. The animal sacrifice, as I understand it, will be during the tribulation, not the millennium. I do not believe time in heaven is like time here in this life, which is how I tried to explain II Peter 3:8 earlier. You are referring to time in heaven, not on earth. Taking in account that God can be in the beginning and the end at the same time, time means nothing to him. We, on the other hand, measure time so intricately, that every second counts. As we get older, notice that time goes by faster? Time seems to become shorter to us, yet, a child see a day as a long time, and a week is too far away to consider, yet, it just seem like yesterday I got up to begin another week at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted June 1, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted June 1, 2017 14 minutes ago, OneLight said: God, in the beginning, created everything that was created and He said it was good. Yet, man, through his ability to make choices for himself, turned from God. There were only two of them at that time, yet they both turned - 100% rejection factor. When Jesus returns, He will set up reign for 1000 years the same way He created all that was created. Being that there will be more then just 2 people at this time, why does this startle you when the number to us, is uncountable? Think of it this way, if man, even after walking with God Himself, disobeys and turns from God, why do you think man will be any different when Jesus reigns? Didn't Jesus tell us in His gospels ""Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." "? So, yes, many will continue to turn from Jesus even when He reigns. The animal sacrifice, as I understand it, will be during the tribulation, not the millennium. I do not believe time in heaven is like time here in this life, which is how I tried to explain II Peter 3:8 earlier. You are referring to time in heaven, not on earth. Taking in account that God can be in the beginning and the end at the same time, time means nothing to him. We, on the other hand, measure time so intricately, that every second counts. As we get older, notice that time goes by faster? Time seems to become shorter to us, yet, a child see a day as a long time, and a week is too far away to consider, yet, it just seem like yesterday I got up to begin another week at work. Thank you OneLight for this response, it is the best explanation I have ever heard in regards to this. It makes complete sense to me what you are saying, and I appreciate your insight. Time is definitely not the same to us as God for sure, I have never questioned that. I love how you described time changing as we get older, isn't that the truth lol. You have given me a lot to consider, and I am grateful for your time and the discussion. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted June 1, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted June 1, 2017 3 minutes ago, wingnut- said: Thank you OneLight for this response, it is the best explanation I have ever heard in regards to this. It makes complete sense to me what you are saying, and I appreciate your insight. Time is definitely not the same to us as God for sure, I have never questioned that. I love how you described time changing as we get older, isn't that the truth lol. You have given me a lot to consider, and I am grateful for your time and the discussion. God bless Just trying to be used to help others, as you also do. We are here for each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.jpeg.e3f738b71586a9366251a108db543d67.jpeg)
Recommended Posts