The Elect

[Daniel 11:36]

The Lord is always right

Those that are raised along with those living at the time is one thing [both Jew and Gentile]

But those involved with the Lord's coming tribulation are completely different

[wingnut-]

There is one seed, one body, one Spirit.  Scripture does not support your claim.

[Guest shiloh357]

On 5/20/2017 at 3:53 PM, kenny2212 said:

Is the elect in Matt. 24:22 Israelites (broadly, people living in Israel) or Christians not yet raptured? Please read context before answering.

The "elect" in THAT context, refers to Israel, namely the Jewish people living in Israel, not born again believers.    Matt 24 pertains to Israel, not the Church because Israel will be here for the tribulation; we as believers will not be here during that time.  Amillennialists, Preterists and Post Tribbers think it refers to the Church and that is not clear from the chapter.

[Daniel 11:36]

"The "elect" in THAT context, refers to Israel, namely the Jewish people living in Israel, not born again believers."

 

No question about it .... the Lord is speaking to Israel about the nation's position in the coming tribulation period .... the 70th week decreed [Acts 1:6-7]

 

Edited May 26, 2017 by Daniel 11:36

[wingnut-]

36 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

The "elect" in THAT context, refers to Israel, namely the Jewish people living in Israel, not born again believers.    Matt 24 pertains to Israel, not the Church because Israel will be here for the tribulation; we as believers will not be here during that time.  Amillennialists, Preterists and Post Tribbers think it refers to the Church and that is not clear from the chapter.

 

How do you come to that conclusion considering He is speaking privately to His disciples?  Also considering that non-believing Jews do not read the gospel of Matthew it is illogical for God to give them a message that He knows they won't read?

[Daniel 11:36]

"How do you come to that conclusion considering He is speaking privately to His disciples"

 

Disciples who were not yet in full compliance with His future edicts

He is describing His end time involvement with a returned remnant of Israel in the coming tribulation in His discourse

He indicates no timing element which is not given anywhere in scripture .... [2 Peter 3:8-9]

Edited May 26, 2017 by Daniel 11:36

[Guest shiloh357]

57 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

 

How do you come to that conclusion considering He is speaking privately to His disciples?  Also considering that non-believing Jews do not read the gospel of Matthew it is illogical for God to give them a message that He knows they won't read?

• Everything about the chapter is in a Jewish context, not a Church context. For instance:
• They will see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place.  This means that in the last days, there will be a temple that will be defiled by the abomination  of desolation standing in it. (v. 15)  Who is it will see that?  It is a sign to the Jews, not the Church
• When they see the abomination of desolation they are to flee Judea (v. 16)
• In v. 20 Jesus said to pray that their flight would not be on the Sabbath or in the winter. Jews would be the only ones affected by that, not the Church.

And as a side note, God refers to the Jewish people/Israel has his elect: (Isa. 42:1; 45:4; 65:9,22 )

How you do know non-believing Jews don't read the New Testament?

 

 

 

 

[wingnut-]

8 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

• Everything about the chapter is in a Jewish context, not a Church context. For instance:
• They will see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place.  This means that in the last days, there will be a temple that will be defiled by the abomination  of desolation standing in it. (v. 15)  Who is it will see that?  It is a sign to the Jews, not the Church
• When they see the abomination of desolation they are to flee Judea (v. 16)
• In v. 20 Jesus said to pray that their flight would not be on the Sabbath or in the winter. Jews would be the only ones affected by that, not the Church.

And as a side note, God refers to the Jewish people/Israel has his elect: (Isa. 42:1; 45:4; 65:9,22 )

How you do know non-believing Jews don't read the New Testament?

 

 

Who will see it?  Those who are alive at the time it happens.  The disciples started the church, so I don't agree that it is in a Jewish context.  Those in Judea are told to flee, which would apply to Messianic Jews as well.  In the Old Testament the Jews are told when to flee by Daniel, Zechariah tells them what direction, and Hosea and Isaiah tell them where they will end up.

Peter refers to Jesus as the elect, see my previous post in this thread in regards to the New Testament definition of the elect.  Paul tells the church in Corinth there is no difference between Jew or Greek (which makes sense because they were Greek), and in Romans Paul tells us that there is no difference between Jew or Gentile.  There is one seed, one body, one Spirit.

I don't know that all non-believing Jews don't read it, but considering that it is a false teaching in their view, it is logical.

God bless

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, wingnut- said:

Who will see it?  Those who are alive at the time it happens.  The disciples started the church, so I don't agree that it is in a Jewish context.  

 

It is a Jewish context, because it is talking about fleeing from  Judea on the Sabbath, it is talking about the defiling of the Temple.  All of that is Jewish, not Christian.  This not about the Church.   The "Church"  didn't exist when Jesus was speaking and so the disciples would have received Jesus words as referring to "the Church." 

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Those in Judea are told to flee, which would apply to Messianic Jews as well.  In the Old Testament the Jews are told when to flee by Daniel, Zechariah tells them what direction, and Hosea and Isaiah tell them where they will end up.

What it agrees with is Revelation 12 when the Jews who  have been regathered to the land will flee to the wilderness and be protected by God, there.  That is during the Tribulation, when the believers will be slaughtered by the AC. 

 

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Peter refers to Jesus as the elect, see my previous post in this thread in regards to the New Testament definition of the elect.

Yes, and in that context, it refers to believers.   But God also calls the nation of Israel, is elect which I have also proven from Scripture and you have conveniently ignored.

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 Paul tells the church in Corinth there is no difference between Jew or Greek (which makes sense because they were Greek), and in Romans Paul tells us that there is no difference between Jew or Gentile.  There is one seed, one body, one Spirit.

That being the case, you should have no problem with Israel also being called the elect. 

Paul was simply making the point that we are all equally sinners before God and that no one is at an advantage or put at a disadvantage where access to God's grace is concerned.

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I don't know that all non-believing Jews don't read it, but considering that it is a false teaching in their view, it is logical.

I don't see it as illogical, as many Rabbis read the NT.  They read it to refute it, but they still read it and God is still planting seeds.   Some Jews know the NT better than a lot Christians. It's no different than Atheists who read the Bible to refute and some end up coming to faith.   And during the Tribulation, they will be reminded that we said these things would come upon the earth and all of those Bibles that Christians left behind, will be read. 

[Daniel 11:36]

No doubt .... Davida is correct

The Lord's discourse is centered upon Israel during the coming tribulation