The true meaning of Pentecost

[simplejeff]

Actually embarrassing,  but here you seem to be admitting you are with the lawless ones ?  Is that so ?

 

5 minutes ago, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said:

"I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain." - Galatians 2:21

"Who shall not fear You, O Lord, and glorify Your name?
For You alone are holy.
For all nations shall come and worship before You,
For Your judgments have been manifested." - Revelation 15:4

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." - 1 John 1:8
"If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." - 1 John 1:10

"There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,
who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit." - Romans 8:1

"Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”" - Galatians 3:12

"that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love" - Ephesians 3:17

"Now the just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him." - Hebrews 10:38

"But when they opposed him and blasphemed, he shook his garments and said to them,
“Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean. From now on I will go to the Gentiles." - Acts 18:6

[4LdKHVCzRDj2]

1 hour ago, simplejeff said:

Actually embarrassing,  but here you seem to be admitting you are with the lawless ones ?  Is that so ?

The lawless ones are those who do not abide in Jesus' words (i.e. they live according to the flesh).

"We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death.
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." - 1 John 3:14-15

 

Lawlessness is one of the works of the flesh, and only those who live according to the flesh would be living in lawlessness.

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death." - Romans 8:2

 

Those who have believed and received the Holy Spirit does not live according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

"and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again." - 2 Corinthians 5:15

 

"For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith." - 1 John 5:3-4

Edited January 7, 2018 by 4LdKHVCzRDj2

[jrd]

5 hours ago, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said:

The lawless ones are those who do not abide in Jesus' words (i.e. they live according to the flesh).

"We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death.
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." - 1 John 3:14-15

 

Lawlessness is one of the works of the flesh, and only those who live according to the flesh would be living in lawlessness.

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death." - Romans 8:2

 

Those who have believed and received the Holy Spirit does not live according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

"and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again." - 2 Corinthians 5:15

 

"For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith." - 1 John 5:3-4

This will be the last time I speak to you because you ignore questions and also ignore scripture I posted.

I just want to point out that we are not saying the Law can save, it never has. Nearly every verse you posted has a context of people trying to use the Law FOR SALVATION instead of Christ. 

I guess for you there is no Law and you are free to live how you want without any regard to how God feels about it. The problem is an attitude like that is not from God. 

But thankfully what the Bible says is true and it doesn't matter what people think. 

I suppose when Paul said asked if the fact that we are not under the Law means we are free to sin all we please so grace may abound and answered his question with "may it never be" "we uphold the Law" it somehow doesn't apply to you. Clearly the context of what he is saying here is the Torah when he says "not under the Law" so the same word for Law used when he said "we uphold the Law" is also the Torah. 

I guess you also ignore the fact that Paul took a Nazarite vow to prove that he was not against the Torah. Please do a study on this vow (numbers) to see how serious it is.

Once you have the truth all of the Bible will fit well with each other and it will no longer be necessary to refute one verse with another as you do. If scripture can refute scripture the whole thing is broken and you have no salvation anyway.

I see that you have no desire to read and study the Bible for yourself without some study guide or church leader to hold your hand so I'm done with this discussion. My hope is that some day you actually pray to God to show you the truth and let him teach you instead of your pastor. Your pastor should not be your authority or source of truth, the word of God should.

Once again feel free to reach out to me if you decide to actually discuss this in the future and not just argue, I'll be happy to help you if you have questions. Even though I seem to be harping on you I'm only doing it because I want you to know the truth.

[brakelite]

First, about Pentecost. I cannot remember the scriptural evidence, but when I studied this many years ago I saw that when Jesus returned to heaven after the resurrection, it was actually in heaven He fulfilled the type as in the original feast of firstfruits and presented Himself as the wave offering before the Father. Then He returned after the Father confirmed His acceptance of the offering, to encourage the disciples and prepare them for His final ascension. When He returned to His Father, He took up the role of High Priest. This took place on Pentecost. Jesus was anointed in heaven as Priest, and as in the OT where Moses was instructed to pour out the oil (holy Spirit) to anoint the priests until the oil fell off the garments onto the ground, so the holy Spirit was passed on from the Father to the Son and to the disciples as they too became anointed priests unto God. For every type in the sanctuary service,  the antitype was fulfilled literally in the ministry of Messiah. Passover...feast of firstfruits...and Pentecost were spring feasts, and fulfilled early in the Christian age/period. Now we are in the autumn or towards the end of the religious calendar year, the autumn feasts are fulfilling. The feast of trumpets...day of atonement...tabernacles. Feast of trumpets was a warning in preparation for the day of atonement. It was a herald for the arrival and final consummation of the high priests ministry. This I believe was met in antitype with the global/worldwide proclamation of the soon second coming by various people of God in different faiths in the early 19th century. This was followed by the antitype of the day of atonement which for the Jew was a time of intense personal introspection...a time of judgement, wherein God would cut off from the people of Israel anyone who hadn't fully repented of sin. This was their final opportunity to surrender before the 'new year' began. This also was a time of spiritual cleansing not just for the people, but also for the sanctuary. (Levit.16). Just as the sins of the people throughout the previous years had been confessed and transferred through the blood into the temple or sanctuary, so also take the Lamb of God take upon Himself the sins of mankind, and as High Priest presented Himself before the Father in the heavenly sanctuary. Jesus was both victim and priest, ministering His own blood before the altar. There in heaven our sins are recorded in the books, just as the blood was sprinkled before the altar of incense and the veil.

On the day of atonement the high priest offered a goat upon which no sins were confessed. The blood of this animal represents the righteousness of Christ and the cleansing of guilt and the blotting out of all the records of sin for those who accepted His sacrifice. I believe this event is taking place in heaven as we speak. We are currently living in the antitypical day of atonement waiting the coming of our Lord when He finishes His work as High Priest, leaves the heavenly temple and returns as King of Kings. Then when we return to heaven with Him we then celebrate the feast of tabernacles, rejoicing in our salvation.

I know, not a popular interpretation. But it makes perfect sense when we take into account Daniel 8:14 as pertaining to the heavenly sanctuary (as no earthly sanctuary was then in existence) at the fulfilling of the 2300 days/years...October 22, 1844. (The 2300 years began at the same time as the 490 years spoken of in Daniel 9:24. If you want a more detailed and fuller explanation for the above, I can readily comply. 

[brakelite]

Deleted. Confused over spring/autumn...that's the trouble of old age and living upside down...or down under.

Edited January 7, 2018 by brakelite

[simplejeff]

1 hour ago, jrd said:

This will be the last time I speak to you because you ignore questions and also ignore scripture I posted.

I just want to point out that we are not saying the Law can save, it never has. Nearly every verse you posted has a context of people trying to use the Law FOR SALVATION instead of Christ. 

I guess for you there is no Law and you are free to live how you want without any regard to how God feels about it. The problem is an attitude like that is not from God. 

But thankfully what the Bible says is true and it doesn't matter what people think. 

I suppose when Paul said asked if the fact that we are not under the Law means we are free to sin all we please so grace may abound and answered his question with "may it never be" "we uphold the Law" it somehow doesn't apply to you. Clearly the context of what he is saying here is the Torah when he says "not under the Law" so the same word for Law used when he said "we uphold the Law" is also the Torah. 

I guess you also ignore the fact that Paul took a Nazarite vow to prove that he was not against the Torah. Please do a study on this vow (numbers) to see how serious it is.

Once you have the truth all of the Bible will fit well with each other and it will no longer be necessary to refute one verse with another as you do. If scripture can refute scripture the whole thing is broken and you have no salvation anyway.

I see that you have no desire to read and study the Bible for yourself without some study guide or church leader to hold your hand so I'm done with this discussion. My hope is that some day you actually pray to God to show you the truth and let him teach you instead of your pastor. Your pastor should not be your authority or source of truth, the word of God should.

Once again feel free to reach out to me if you decide to actually discuss this in the future and not just argue, I'll be happy to help you if you have questions. Even though I seem to be harping on you I'm only doing it because I want you to know the truth.

Before the lawless ones can know the Truth,  YHWH has to draw them,  and YHWH has to take the veil away also.

Normally , in the assembly of ecclesia,  those preaching or teaching or bringing a false gospel are put out. Here we can't do that (no one apparently can nor does).    So we just put up warning posts to alert others, even if or when the lawless ones don't take note nor care.  YHWH may or may not have us pray that they may come to know the Truth - as Jesus Himself said "I don't pray for the whole world/society....."  but for those THOU (YHWH) have given ME (Jesus) ....and for those who believe after them ....

[4LdKHVCzRDj2]

5 hours ago, jrd said:

I guess for you there is no Law and you are free to live how you want without any regard to how God feels about it.

Who told you that I am living the way I want?!

"You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one." - John 8:15

 

If I would be living the way I want I would be following the flesh, not the Lord Jesus.

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." - Romans 8:14

 

5 hours ago, jrd said:

Your pastor should not be your authority or source of truth, the word of God should.

5 hours ago, jrd said:

I see that you have no desire to read and study the Bible for yourself without some study guide or church leader to hold your hand so I'm done with this discussion.

How do you say this?! Everything I have learned I learned from the Lord Jesus, and I am trust in Him that what I speak is truth.

"You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you." - Acts 7:51

 

I have said what I believed I should say to you. I am in peace.

[Justin Adams]

16 minutes ago, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said:

I have said what I believed I should say to you. I am in peace.

Hello again. I am sure that what you do and believe is right in your own eyes. Me, I am not so sure of myself. I know that if I cross that invisible line from calm entreaty into judgement I tread a dangerous path. Truth is, no one but the Holy Spirit can really change a person regardless of what they say or think they believe. You will do what your really believe.

How do we ever know that the truths we hold dear are TRUE.

Continual reassessment and self-audits are what keeps us from the leaven of the pharisees. Line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little. And we trust that the quiet voice we hear from behind will say, thus you go and walk you in it.

[Waggles]

10  For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
11  For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12  To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Isaiah 28: 

18  But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19  Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20  And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Acts 3: 

In Pentecost there is no strict legalistic requirement to observe specific days as any Sabbath - a resting from work; 

for now the indwelling Holy Spirit is our rest and our refreshing. 

Hebrews chapters 3 and 4 speak to this 

9  There remains therefore a rest to the people of God.
10  For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11  Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Hebrews 4: 

The Holy Spirit is my refreshing and my rest from my own works. 

We meet for worship on Sundays and on Wednesday nights. 

Is a mid-week meeting breaking the Law? 

Edited January 15, 2018 by Waggles

[Justin Adams]

Ignore the Sabbath if you wish and bow to rome. Rome boasts that the protestants do this!

My scriptures are replete with adjuncts to observe God's Sabbath in respect and reverence for Him.

Yeshua said for us to be obedient to His Commandments if we love Him. If you wish to be Pharisaical and misquote scriptures to deny His words, go right ahead. He says in my bible that whitewashed sepulchers do this kind of thing. Full of dead men's bones. Could that be the bones of all the believers that rome killed for not following her dictates? Well, we make up for it today by paying homage to rome.

In 1986 there was a cross-religion, multi-religious convocation. You might be surprised to see the members of the Assisi religious groups.

http://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A430rcAssisi1986.html

Edited January 15, 2018 by Justin Adams