Questions for a Frank and Open Discussion about Cults & Speaking in Tongues

[SavedOnebyGrace]

Question 1: Is "Name It and Claim It" a cult hidden in plain sight amongst born-again believers?

Question 2: Is the "Prosperity Message" biblical?

Question 3: How many Christians here on this forum became Christians after hearing someone speaking in tongues? 

Question 4: How do you know the language you're speaking is not gibberish?

Question 5: How did you first start to speak in "tongues"?

Question 6: What benefit does speaking-in-tongues serve today's church?

[daughterofGrace]

19 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Question 1: Is "Name It and Claim It" a cult hidden in plain sight amongst born-again believers?

Question 2: Is the "Prosperity Message" biblical?

Question 3: How many Christians here on this forum became Christians after hearing someone speaking in tongues? 

Question 4: How do you know the language you're speaking is not gibberish?

Question 5: How did you first start to speak in "tongues"?

Question 6: What benefit does speaking-in-tongues serve today's church?

Just a couple of questions to clarify things for me, please:

How are you defining a cult?

Why have you grouped the prosperity gospel and speaking in tongues together?  Do you see them as necessarily going hand-in-hand?  Or are they separate issues that you consider characteristics of a cult?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

1 hour ago, daughterofGrace said:

Just a couple of questions to clarify things for me, please:

How are you defining a cult?

No.  I believe we have enough dictionaries to define what a cult is, and what it is not.  Usually cults revolve around a central figure, a la Jim Jones, with individual leaders having charismatic personalities.  Their word is gospel over and above the true Gospel of Jesus Christ as written in the Bible.  One could claim that Charles Darwin is a cult leader that persists to this day.  It need not involve faith and/or religion.

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Why have you grouped the prosperity gospel and speaking in tongues together?  Do you see them as necessarily going hand-in-hand?  Or are they separate issues that you consider characteristics of a cult?

Yes I have.  I am willing to be corrected here.  Show me one teacher of the "Prosperity Gospel" who is not a speaker of tongues.  The converse I do not believe is true.  There are people who speak in tongues who do not adhere to the "Prosperity Gospel".  The "Prosperity Gospel" is another gospel, not one taught and fulfilled by Jesus Christ.  I hope that clears up my views on the subject.  I was taught the "Prosperity Gospel" as a member of a large mega church in the St. Louis area.  Giving to the church was stressed to achieve prosperity in ones own life.  When did Jesus teach that? 

We followed not one charismatic leader, but a number of them from around the country and were encouraged to give to get back.  Our pastor prophesized things that would happen that never did.  That is a Biblical example of a false prophet.

I'm sorry that's all I can write.  I suffer from tremors in my hands (manifesting itself within the last year or so).  I am open to Biblical correction for anything I say/imply that's wrong.

Shalom.

[daughterofGrace]

52 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

No.  I believe we have enough dictionaries to define what a cult is, and what it is not.  Usually cults revolve around a central figure, a la Jim Jones, with individual leaders having charismatic personalities.  Their word is gospel over and above the true Gospel of Jesus Christ as written in the Bible.  One could claim that Charles Darwin is a cult leader that persists to this day.  It need not involve faith and/or religion.

Yes I have.  I am willing to be corrected here.  Show me one teacher of the "Prosperity Gospel" who is not a speaker of tongues.  The converse I do not believe is true.  There are people who speak in tongues who do not adhere to the "Prosperity Gospel".  The "Prosperity Gospel" is another gospel, not one taught and fulfilled by Jesus Christ.  I hope that clears up my views on the subject.  I was taught the "Prosperity Gospel" as a member of a large mega church in the St. Louis area.  Giving to the church was stressed to achieve prosperity in ones own life.  When did Jesus teach that? 

We followed not one charismatic leader, but a number of them from around the country and were encouraged to give to get back.  Our pastor prophesized things that would happen that never did.  That is a Biblical example of a false prophet.

I'm sorry that's all I can write.  I suffer from tremors in my hands (manifesting itself within the last year or so).  I am open to Biblical correction for anything I say/imply that's wrong.

Shalom.

Thanks for those clarifications, Savedonebygrace.  I appreciate it.

I'm sorry about the tremors.  Must be so frustrating for you.  I have to spend limited time keyboarding because of chronic pain in neck, back, wrists and hands.  So I can empathize. 

I have not had the experience with proponents of the prosperity gospel that you have and don't feel qualified to comment about that.

However, I do speak in tongues.  Years ago, when I was reading about the gifts of the Spirit, I asked God specifically about tongues, whether it was something I needed or not.  Then, one night, at a service, I was praying and suddenly I started praying in tongues.  It's a prayer language.  I have never uttered tongues out loud during a service.

I can understand some people's skepticism about them and they can certainly be abused.  Paul had to correct the church at Corinth for the chaos tongues was causing. 

And I have a problem with any church that says a person HAS to speak in tongues as a witness that he/she is truly filled with the Holy Spirit.  Paul makes it clear that gifts of the Spirit are apportioned as the Spirit sees fit.  That means we aren't all going to manifest all of them all the time.  The Holy Spirit will empower us to use them for his purpose, not ours.  I have known many fine born-again believers who never spoke in tongues. 

Not sure if that's the kind of information you were looking for, but there it is. 

 

[SavedOnebyGrace]

19 minutes ago, daughterofGrace said:

Thanks for those clarifications, Savedonebygrace.  I appreciate it.

I'm sorry about the tremors.  Must be so frustrating for you.  I have to spend limited time keyboarding because of chronic pain in neck, back, wrists and hands.  So I can empathize. 

I have not had the experience with proponents of the prosperity gospel that you have and don't feel qualified to comment about that.

However, I do speak in tongues.  Years ago, when I was reading about the gifts of the Spirit, I asked God specifically about tongues, whether it was something I needed or not.  Then, one night, at a service, I was praying and suddenly I started praying in tongues.  It's a prayer language.  I have never uttered tongues out loud during a service.

I can understand some people's skepticism about them and they can certainly be abused.  Paul had to correct the church at Corinth for the chaos tongues was causing. 

And I have a problem with any church that says a person HAS to speak in tongues as a witness that he/she is truly filled with the Holy Spirit.  Paul makes it clear that gifts of the Spirit are apportioned as the Spirit sees fit.  That means we aren't all going to manifest all of them all the time.  The Holy Spirit will empower us to use them for his purpose, not ours.  I have known many fine born-again believers who never spoke in tongues. 

Not sure if that's the kind of information you were looking for, but there it is. 

Unlike many other people, I don't necessarily believe tongues have ceased.  Some believe tongues ceased with the finalization of the Christian Canon.  I'm not one of those.  As I said elsewhere, I spoke in tongues for 5 years, give or take.  As a new Christian (back in 1982), I seriously desired the gift and followed a formula espoused by Kenneth E. Hagin.  I followed the formula but now doubt that I ever really spoke in tongues.  But I did hear an audible prophetic message that no one else heard which turned out to be true, in more than one way.  I later heard another, shorter message which I no longer remember.  Whether these were from God, angels or my imagination, I cannot say.

As for the tremors, they manifest themselves while typing and sometimes while writing.  They come and go.

[simplejeff]

4 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Question 1: Is "Name It and Claim It" a cult hidden in plain sight amongst born-again believers?

Question 2: Is the "Prosperity Message" biblical?

Question 3: How many Christians here on this forum became Christians after hearing someone speaking in tongues? 

Question 4: How do you know the language you're speaking is not gibberish?

Question 5: How did you first start to speak in "tongues"?

Question 6: What benefit does speaking-in-tongues serve today's church?

(1) yes, and often out in the open, not hidden.

(2) no.

(3) ?

(4) most of the time in the world , it is gibberish, regardless  of what they think.

(5) wait , keep waiting,  as they did in ACTS more than once.  Keep seeking YHWH.   IF HE DOES IT, HE DOES IT.

IF HE DOESN'T,  then it's just gibberish.

(6) A few times the language (in prayer or prophesy) was perfectly known by someone else present, a direct message from YHWH to them.   Also,  if all other things are in order in JESUS, in line with HIS WORD,  then also some healing has been accomplished , simply YHWH'S CHOICE....

[Behold]

6 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

  Show me one teacher of the "Prosperity Gospel" who is not a speaker of tongues.

Thats easy.

Yeshua.

There is no record in the NT of Jesus The Christ ever speaking in "tongues", and that is because he was sent to"the house of Israel", and He could speak their language:)

Yeshua taught that we are to have "Abundant Life" and this is not only eternal life or "spiritual life"..

This is why He told you in Deut 8:18 where "wealth" comes from, and this is not just a "spiritual context":)

The issue with "money" is never the money, but its  the person.....as everything with God is all about YOUR MOTIVE, and if your heart is right, then your motive will be right.

Now about that "prosperity gospel"...... Well, money is necessary, and prosperity is another word for "FAVOR" in your New Testament.......but.....the issue with the "prosperity gospel" becomes an issue when its the ONLY subject-topic in the speaker's agenda., as when that happens then GREED is being preached to the greedy.

So, speaking about abundance, money, health, prosperity...., are all good biblical topics, but this message becomes an issue when it becomes the ONLY topic, as that IS the issue,= often  regarding these types of teachers.

 

Edited May 30, 2017 by Behold

[kwikphilly]

Quote

Now about that "prosperity gospel"...... Well, money is necessary, and prosperity is another word for "FAVOR" in your New Testament.......but.....the issue with the "prosperity gospel" becomes an issue when its the ONLY subject-topic in the speaker's agenda., as when that happens then GREED is being preached to the greedy.

So, speaking about abundance, money, health, prosperity...., are all good biblical topics, but this message becomes an issue when it becomes the ONLY topic, as that IS the issue,= often  regarding these types of teachers.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

47 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

(1) yes, and often out in the open, not hidden.

(2) no.

(3) ?

(4) most of the time in the world , it is gibberish, regardless  of what they think.

(5) wait , keep waiting,  as they did in ACTS more than once.  Keep seeking YHWH.   IF HE DOES IT, HE DOES IT.

IF HE DOESN'T,  then it's just gibberish.

(6) A few times the language (in prayer or prophesy) was perfectly known by someone else present, a direct message from YHWH to them.   Also,  if all other things are in order in JESUS, in line with HIS WORD,  then also some healing has been accomplished , simply YHWH'S CHOICE....

At the mega church I often reference that I was a member of, the pastor spoke in tongues one Sunday during the Worship Service and got two polar opposite interpretations of what he was saying.  The first interpretation was the one he wanted to here; the second was not but I believe was more in line with scripture.  The following week's service had strict requirements on the interpretation of tongues.

[simplejeff]

3 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

At the mega church I often reference that I was a member of

So then,  did you find out the simple truth finally, after that ?

Or still have questions (from the OP or others) ?