Kathy Griffin Under Secret Service Investigation

[Guest shiloh357]

4 hours ago, missmuffet said:

Spoken like a true Trump loyalist.

No, it's not being  Trump loyalist.   It's showing the moral internal contradiction of having absolutely no grace for Trump, but suddenly finding all kinds of  Christian "grace" for the person who pretty much displays the spirit of ISIS.

I am willing to bet that if Trump held up a fake, bloodied, severed head of Shumer, or Pelosi or some liberal news commentator from CNN, there would not be any calls for us to "pray for him"  or "show him grace."

[Guest shiloh357]

15 hours ago, Running Gator said:

On this I agree 200%, which is why I will fight for her freedom of speech.  I do not want to lose mine either 

Is it speech?  If it is speech, what was the message?   What message does holding up the severed head of the POTUS  in effigy send?   I mean if we are going to call it protected "speech"  what was it saying?   If this video is not tantamount to a threat to the life of the POTUS, what message should we take from it?   And can she articulate that message, without putting herself in legal jeoaprdy?  She knew how the video would interpreted because she joked that she would have to move to Mexico after publishing it.    She understood what the ramifications would be, but she took the gamble and lost.

It is telling that she did not clarify the message of the video and explain why it should not be construed as a threat to the president.  It would be nice, then, to know what message she wanted us to take away from it.

I would argue that if it doesn't have a discernible, legal message, it is not protected speech and really is not "speech" at all.  It falls under the category of conduct.   If any other person were to have their likeness held up on TV in effigy in the same way, they would not brush it aside as "speech" or as  comedy and they would pursue legal action against such a thing, especially if the effigy was one of their children.

It is only being seen as protected speech because the target it Trump and the Left is allowed to be as hateful, as murderous and bloody as they want to be so long as Trump is the target.   Suddenly, EVERYTHING, no matter how vile, is protected speech when the target is Trump.

[Running Gator]

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

Is it speech?  If it is speech, what was the message?   What message does holding up the severed head of the POTUS  in effigy send?   I mean if we are going to call it protected "speech"  what was it saying?   If this video is not tantamount to a threat to the life of the POTUS, what message should we take from it?   And can she articulate that message, without putting herself in legal jeoaprdy?  She knew how the video would interpreted because she joked that she would have to move to Mexico after publishing it.    She understood what the ramifications would be, but she took the gamble and lost.

I do not belive there is a requirement in the freedom of speech for me to "understand" what is being said.   As to what message to take from the video, perhaps the message is that she wishes the president were dead.  While this is a morally reprehensible view for her to hold, it is not a illegal view. 

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I would argue that if it doesn't have a discernible, legal message, it is not protected speech and really is not "speech" at all.  It falls under the category of conduct.   If any other person were to have their likeness held up on TV in effigy in the same way, they would not brush it aside as "speech" or as  comedy and they would pursue legal action against such a thing, especially if the effigy was one of their children.

I do not know if the courts would agree with the need for a discernible, legal message.  

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It is only being seen as protected speech because the target it Trump and the Left is allowed to be as hateful, as murderous and bloody as they want to be so long as Trump is the target.   Suddenly, EVERYTHING, no matter how vile, is protected speech when the target is Trump.

I can only speak for myself, I do not have the the ability to read the mind of others.  As for me it has nothing to do with Trump, if someone did that with my head I would defend their right to do it every bit as much as I am now.  I would want the government to stay out of it and for the market to handle it.   At this point she has lost her livelihood and more.  That is the best deterrent against such vile actions as what she did.

[kwikphilly]

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I do not approve what she did as you can see from my previous post. But she has lost much. She is suffering the consequence of her actions. Would you then call for a pound of flesh? God loves her and he will forgive her if she asks. Can we not do the same as Christians?     Miss Muffit

This has nothing to do with forgiveness & not one person is calling for a pound of flesh.......Live by the Law,be condemned by it....isn;t that the saying & the context of this discussion......there is not one of us that will not/are not praying for this woman and are not hoping beyond all HOPE that she will ask the Lords Forgiveness and repent

   What we are talking about here,as Christians ,is the fact that Ms Griffith has publically displayed contempt for the POTUS in such a way that most of us here  view it as a threat to his life,I suppose we are not the minority as the SS are up in arms over it......so why has she not been arrested as you,me,Shiloh or anyone else would have been

    I say arrest her,charge her & let the SCOTUS decide whether or not she be convicted & pay the penalty for such an act of treason just the same as it is for anyone who is not a celebrity........there are consequences for your actions,reprocussions for breaking the Law,that has nothing to do with us being Christians......as a a Christian I would much prefer she pay the price here & now instead of having to face the Wrath of God.....

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43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.

                                             Mark 9:43

Maybe God is drawing her unto Himself,perhaps her fame  was distracting her from hearing His Call to her......In His Great Mercy & Compassion He may have Allowed these things to happen so she might wind up very much alone with no one to turn to but Him,God Will certainly bring you to your knees when you ignore Him......I do hope so in her case.                                                                                                                                                                         With love-in Christ,Kwik

[kwikphilly]

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As for me it has nothing to do with Trump, if someone did that with my head I would defend their right to do it every bit as much as I am now.     RG

1. I believe it has everything to do with President Trump,perhaps not for you but for many many people defending Kathy Griffith......imo    I certainly understand what you are saying BUT you are not the POTUS & if it were you it is not an act of treason.......I think thats the whole point here       Love,Kwik

[The_Patriot21]

13 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

1. I believe it has everything to do with President Trump,perhaps not for you but for many many people defending Kathy Griffith......imo    I certainly understand what you are saying BUT you are not the POTUS & if it were you it is not an act of treason.......I think thats the whole point here       Love,Kwik

Problem with that logic, is its a downhill slope. If we call her act treason and jail her for it, where does it end? When anyone who speaks against the president speaks out? That's fine as long as we got a president we agree with in office, but as soon as he's out, well, not so great. Because that's what we call tyranny.

[Guest shiloh357]

17 minutes ago, Running Gator said:

I do not belive there is a requirement in the freedom of speech for me to "understand" what is being said.   As to what message to take from the video, perhaps the message is that she wishes the president were dead.  While this is a morally reprehensible view for her to hold, it is not a illegal view.

Well, the idea behind "speech" is that you are saying something.      When the radical groups in the middle east held up an effigy of Bush and set it on fire, what message do you suppose they had in mind?   Did they have no message?   Was anyone confused about what they were saying by doing that?   Or is it only suddenly "confusing"  to those who cannot bring themselves to condemn Griffin's actions as a cime for publicly expressing what many are thinking, but don't have the courage to express publicly, themselves?

The 1st amendment's protection of speech was designed to allow us to criticize the government policies and practices without fear of government reprisal. It is also the motivation behind being allowed to peacefully assemble and present the government with a redress of grievances.   The constitutional grounds of freedom of speech is to engage in speech, to say something and to be able to do so confidently, fearlessly and publicly.   It is the right to express your views on the issues of the day and to  criticize the government.   There is nothing in the constitution that can be construed to protect what Griffin did.

If she didn't have a message, it isn't really speech and should be treated as a threat against the president.  That is the only thing one can construe from her activity, particularly in the light of the fact that more than one entertainer/performer has publicly called for the death of the president.  There is no reason  not to include her in that camp given what she did.

And what is an illegal view for her to hold in her mind is not the same as what is legal or illegal for her to publicly express.  The government cannot legislate what views you can hold in your heart.   But the government CAN legislate how you express them and what the parameters are for that.

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I do not know if the courts would agree with the need for a discernible, legal message.  

Really, and why not?

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I can only speak for myself, I do not have the the ability to read the mind of others.  As for me it has nothing to do with Trump,

Holding up a bloodied, severed head of Donald Trump had nothing to do with Trump??!!??     What was it, then?   Does holding up the bloody head of Donald Trump make a statement about Climate Change, Common Core? Human trafficking?  Fracking? Childhood obesity?   The Keystone Pipeline?   What else could holding up Donald Trump's head possibly be about???  

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if someone did that with my head I would defend their right to do it every bit as much as I am now.

I doubt that.   What if it were the heads of your children or grand children?   You would be okay  with that too?   You would go to court and testify for the defense that this person can post the bloodied heads of your children and grand children, or maybe even your wife?   And that you support it on the grounds of freedom of speech?

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 I would want the government to stay out of it and for the market to handle it.   At this point she has lost her livelihood and more.  That is the best deterrent against such vile actions as what she did.

She hasn't lost any thing in the long run.  When the dust settles and story is dead and cold, all will be forgiven.   Right now sponsors and other companies have to do what is expedient for now.  Until no one cares.  Six months from now she will be hosting the new years show.   So relying on the market isn't really the way to go.  Other actors and entertainers will see that they will only pay a short term price and these kinds of things will continue.

Following the law is the way to go and she needs to pay the legal price for her actions.   Which will be a far better deterrent in the long run.

[Guest shiloh357]

13 minutes ago, The_Patriot2017 said:

Problem with that logic, is its a downhill slope. If we call her act treason and jail her for it, where does it end? When anyone who speaks against the president speaks out?

She was not speaking out against the president.   Holding up a severed bloody head of the president in effigy is not "speaking out."  Doing something that expresses a desire to see the president dead is not "speaking out."  Expressing one's grievances with the president is speaking out. 

[kwikphilly]

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Problem with that logic, is its a downhill slope. If we call her act treason and jail her for it, where does it end? When anyone who speaks against the president speaks out? That's fine as long as we got a president we agree with in office, but as soon as he's out, well, not so great. Because that's what we call tyranny.

I understand what you are saying Pat,I don't think I'm concerned with logic but the a legal perspective,the due process.....I don't believe I ever said she should be sent to prison but rather "arrested" & jailed as she goes through the legal process as everyone else would.....you or I would be "charged" ,jailed",released on bail(if we could afford it) & then await a court hearing.....isn't that how it works?    

I personally believe it is an act of treason,I shouldn't say as much as I have because in all honesty I have not seen the video......I may be wrong but from what I've been told she is not "saying" anything & I don't think iyt is about "freedom of speech" ...this is not a case of someone speaking against the President imo but making threatening ,murderous gestures,implicating "death" for the POTUS.....I think this goes far beyond agreeing or disagreeing with their politics,don't you? 

 I really don't want to watch such a gorey thing ,perhaps I have no right to talk about it here as I am going by what others have said?       Love ya,Kwik

[kwikphilly]

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She was not speaking out against the president.   Holding up a severed bloody head of the president in effigy is not "speaking out."  Doing something that expresses a desire to see the president dead is not "speaking out."  Expressing one's grievances with the president is speaking out.       Shiloh

Exactly what I was saying but I type much slower than the rest of you,by the time I hit "submit" there are 4 & 5 replies that have said what I tried to say,lol