Can a homosexual be saved?

[JohnD]

Again, I am not condoning homosexuality or its practice.

 

[Anonymous Aristotle]

23 hours ago, JohnD said:

So often we picture homosexuals a the epitome of antichristianity.

I am not condoning homosexuality, BTW. So please spare me the confrontational responses.

If nothing else, this is to get us to think!

Do we try to show these people dignity / respect / a true loving Christian witness? Do we pray for them?

Or do we bristle with hate and retaliation for their reaction to the persecution that the Romanized Church historically leveled against them?

Your constructive (non-combative) thoughts are most welcome.

I do not see them as that. I see them as sinners dead in their sin as we all were before by the grace of God we were reborn and renewed by the blood and sacrifice of his only son. 

Yes, absolutely, every homosexual can be saved. God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son so that that would be made possible for all sinners. Homosexuals and trans-diagnosed persons are no exception under  the love of God and his divine and blessed assured grace. 

 

[Mike 2]

On 6/18/2017 at 11:25 AM, JohnD said:

So often we picture homosexuals a the epitome of antichristianity.

I am not condoning homosexuality, BTW. So please spare me the confrontational responses.

If nothing else, this is to get us to think!

Do we try to show these people dignity / respect / a true loving Christian witness? Do we pray for them?

Or do we bristle with hate and retaliation for their reaction to the persecution that the Romanized Church historically leveled against them?

Your constructive (non-combative) thoughts are most welcome.

In response to the title of this chain..." CAN A HOMOSEXUAL BE SAVED?"

well,

Can a murderer be saved?

Can a liar be saved?

Can a thief be saved?

Can an adulterer be saved?

What about alcoholics or drug addicts...do they have to stop drinking or taking drugs before they can be saved?

Can anyone of us that sinned today be saved?

Most importantly.....How many of us followed the very clear rule in the bible that states "YOU MUST CHANGE BEFORE YOU CAN BE SAVED"?

To, to often we look at a homosexual's fornication and focus on that sin, that is like looking at a heterosexual's fornication and not seeing that they are lying, or cheating, or gossiping, or unforgiving, or....... 

As a Christian I know that we all fall short and we all need to learn that despite our failings, God has already made a way. That is the good news and that is the message that we should be sharing.

I think that we have lost sight of the fact that Jesus the Christ died once for all, for all sin, for all people and I don't know of anywhere in the bible that says a person has to change BEFORE they can accept salvation. We do obviously need to recognize we are sinners and need forgiveness otherwise how do we know we need to be saved.

So I ask the question is homosexuality the ONLY sin in a gay persons life?

When it comes to the gay question I don't back away from acknowledging it as sin but I skip right to.....what is the sin in your life, forget the homosexual issue...what is the sin in your life, do you have any?

Sharing the Gospel is about sharing the fact that it doesn't matter what or how much sin we have, we all have sin and it has all been forgiven.

Rom 6:10  For when he died, he died once and for all as far as sin is concerned. 

 We need to get off the homosexual merry go round and its shallowness. It should not be about getting someone to admit that homosexuality is a sin, it should be about acknowledging that we sin and need to accept forgiveness..... and there is all sorts of sin in a persons life,  any ONE of which is enough to require forgiveness. 

 

Edited June 21, 2017 by Mike 2

[Willa]

often the sins that are so obvious to us are not even the ones that God nails them on.  Ultimately He will bring them to the rejection of His Son as being the primary sin.  But often we pick out a sin for Got to convict a person on.  homosexuality may be one of them, or cussing may be the one we choose   So he stops stealing instead and you assume that he hasn't come to repentance.   How dare we just another's servant.    I always said that I had a bucket  of sins that God could have used to convict my hubby, and God didn't use one of them.  But he did come to repentance and was saved.   God is in the soul saving business. and in charge of cleaning the fish.  We just dangle a lure. throw our chum and try to stay out of God's way or to otherwise hinder the process.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings John

    Is a homosexual a "whosoever".......is a liar,a thief,a fornicator.?.....We are ALL whoseovers

Quote

John 3:15-17King James Version (KJV)

¹⁵ That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

¹⁶ For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

¹⁷ For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

                                                                                                         With love-in Christ,Kwik

[OakWood]

On 21/06/2017 at 4:15 AM, Mike 2 said:

In response to the title of this chain..." CAN A HOMOSEXUAL BE SAVED?"

well,

Can a murderer be saved?

Can a liar be saved?

Can a thief be saved?

Can an adulterer be saved?

What about alcoholics or drug addicts...do they have to stop drinking or taking drugs before they can be saved?

Can anyone of us that sinned today be saved?

Most importantly.....How many of us followed the very clear rule in the bible that states "YOU MUST CHANGE BEFORE YOU CAN BE SAVED"?

To, to often we look at a homosexual's fornication and focus on that sin, that is like looking at a heterosexual's fornication and not seeing that they are lying, or cheating, or gossiping, or unforgiving, or....... 

As a Christian I know that we all fall short and we all need to learn that despite our failings, God has already made a way. That is the good news and that is the message that we should be sharing.

I think that we have lost sight of the fact that Jesus the Christ died once for all, for all sin, for all people and I don't know of anywhere in the bible that says a person has to change BEFORE they can accept salvation. We do obviously need to recognize we are sinners and need forgiveness otherwise how do we know we need to be saved.

So I ask the question is homosexuality the ONLY sin in a gay persons life?

When it comes to the gay question I don't back away from acknowledging it as sin but I skip right to.....what is the sin in your life, forget the homosexual issue...what is the sin in your life, do you have any?

Sharing the Gospel is about sharing the fact that it doesn't matter what or how much sin we have, we all have sin and it has all been forgiven.

Rom 6:10  For when he died, he died once and for all as far as sin is concerned. 

 We need to get off the homosexual merry go round and its shallowness. It should not be about getting someone to admit that homosexuality is a sin, it should be about acknowledging that we sin and need to accept forgiveness..... and there is all sorts of sin in a persons life,  any ONE of which is enough to require forgiveness. 

 

I think you're missing the point slightly when you say we need to get off the homosexual merry-go-round. Christians are speaking out against homosexuality for a reason, and that's because to my knowledge it's the only sin trying to legitimise itself.

We don't see adulterers going on adultery pride marches.

We don't see thieves campaigning for equal rights for thieves.

We don't hear of murderers claiming that there is nothing wrong with murdering people, and that they can't help it they were born that way.

We don't hear fornicators claiming that if Jesus was around today, he would approve of their lifestyle.

The big deal with homosexuality is that society has been pressured to accept it as normal thanks to decades of gay-rights lobbying and Media propaganda. Thus homosexuality is no longer just a sin, it is now an iniquity. To declare that a sin is not a sin, is completely different to being a sinner but knowing that what you are doing is wrong!

Christians appear to single out homosexuals for special criticism, but that's only because homosexuals have deliberately put themselves in the line of fire. They haven't just come out of the closet, they've taken over the entire room.

People who claim that homosexuality is no worse than any other sin, and that we should get off their backs are failing to understand why homosexuality has now become an exceptional case. There is no repentance within the gay lobby, there's not even shameful practising in secret.

Not only are they unrepentant they are shamelessly thrusting it in our faces. They don't even pretend that they are not doing it and hide it behind closed doors. They are proud of who they are, what they are, and what they do, and they want everybody - man, woman and child - to embrace their lifestyle.

[Behold]

On 6/18/2017 at 1:00 PM, Teditis said:

 

Homosexuals don't need to quit sinning

 

 

Apparently, You need a new perspective.

Find it in Romans Chapter 1.

[Mike 2]

3 hours ago, OakWood said:

I think you're missing the point slightly when you say we need to get off the homosexual merry-go-round. Christians are speaking out against homosexuality for a reason, and that's because to my knowledge it's the only sin trying to legitimise itself.

We don't see adulterers going on adultery pride marches.

We don't see thieves campaigning for equal rights for thieves.

We don't hear of murderers claiming that there is nothing wrong with murdering people, and that they can't help it they were born that way.

We don't hear fornicators claiming that if Jesus was around today, he would approve of their lifestyle.

The big deal with homosexuality is that society has been pressured to accept it as normal thanks to decades of gay-rights lobbying and Media propaganda. Thus homosexuality is no longer just a sin, it is now an iniquity. To declare that a sin is not a sin, is completely different to being a sinner but knowing that what you are doing is wrong!

Christians appear to single out homosexuals for special criticism, but that's only because homosexuals have deliberately put themselves in the line of fire. They haven't just come out of the closet, they've taken over the entire room.

People who claim that homosexuality is no worse than any other sin, and that we should get off their backs are failing to understand why homosexuality has now become an exceptional case. There is no repentance within the gay lobby, there's not even shameful practising in secret.

Not only are they unrepentant they are shamelessly thrusting it in our faces. They don't even pretend that they are not doing it and hide it behind closed doors. They are proud of who they are, what they are, and what they do, and they want everybody - man, woman and child - to embrace their lifestyle.

I couldn't agree with you more.

You have done a very good job of describing the way I myself feel.

I must say that parades for adulterers, thieves, murderers etc. are not needed now because they are all celebrated in the media/ TV /Movies in very liberal doses and widely accepted as part of normal viewing pleasure, homosexuality in those mediums is not far behind!

I hope you can understand why I have responded the way I have;

first because the question in the OP (seen at the top of the page) is "Can a homosexual be saved?"

I believe so, for the reasons I have already expressed and you have pointed out.

Another reason I respond the way I do is for the very reasons you have described...

"People who claim that homosexuality is no worse than any other sin, and that we should get off their backs are failing to understand why homosexuality has now become an exceptional case. There is no repentance within the gay lobby, there's not even shameful practising in secret." 

What we are seeing is something that is becoming widely accepted whether willingly or by law. I see this as something that is a worldwide humanity thing that is not going to change so I believe we as Christians need to take a different approach in reaching homosexuals. We may not change the world but we might have an effect on 1 persons life.

That is done by introducing them to the loving forgiveness from God that has already been doled out for ALL sin.

I think in some, if not most of the cases with homosexuals it is counterproductive to keep trying to convince someone that they are a sinner by just focusing on homosexuality. If that's a hot button for a homosexual .....or even a heterosexual (you know who you are) then talk about the other sin in their life and let the Holy Spirit do the other convicting, He has a way of not descending into an argument.

I think the horse is out of the barn when it comes to same sex ....anything..... 

Some are going to focus on fighting the tide, and there is nothing wrong with that......if honestly done with love (something hard to do corporately), I can support that to a degree. The problem with that is that it is a political football that really doesn't change a persons spirit in a positive way. Others will choose to engage in a loving, grace filled community and teach Jesus forgiveness that way.  Personally I think entering into a relationship is harder than carrying a sign but if I can introduce someone to the reality of Gods forgiveness, I think the discomfort and awkwardness is worth it.

This just came to mind. I don't think it is a far reach to say this applies when we are looking past the obvious sin of homosexuality and turning to the other sin in a persons life as an entry point for the gospel.

Php 1:15  Some are preaching the Messiah because of jealousy and dissension, while others do so because of their good will. 
Php 1:16  The latter are motivated by love, because they know that I have been appointed to defend the gospel. 
Php 1:17  The former proclaim the Messiah because they are selfishly ambitious and insincere, thinking that they will stir up trouble for me during my imprisonment. 
To Live Is Christ
Php 1:18  But so what? Just this—that in every way, whether by false or true motives, the Messiah is being proclaimed. Because of this, I rejoice and will continue to rejoice.

We are not dishonoring God by not talking about the elephant in the room, we are dishonoring him by not learning how to present the gospel in a loving way. 

 

I think your last paragraph pointing out the aggressiveness of some is valid and I agree with you but I think it is deviating a bit from the OP. I wonder if it might even be an interesting topic for another thread on hardness and being given over to sin.  

 

[JohnD]

All perversion is a sin against God.

Care to engage in what perversion includes?

Heterosexual Christians will be shocked to find in the Bible (God's Word) many things they are daily violating without even realizing it

or... it's become acceptable to them / us.

Okay for heterosexuals to do this but not homosexuals...

I remember how hard liquor swilling good ol' boys would run down pot smokers as dope heads...

Same difference.

Again, I am not condoning ANY perversion against God.

The point I am driving at is how historically we've singled out this one perversion and looked the other way about the rest of OUR perversions.

[Neighbor]

On 6/18/2017 at 11:29 AM, JohnD said:

BTW...

A sub point I wish to make is how we (unintentionally or not) make our pet peeve sin out to be the unpardonable sin.

And in so doing we alienate those who commit it and harden them against the Gospel itself.

Should we not be doing just the opposite?

I do not condone or affirm homosexuality (to them or to anyone). But I deliberately show homosexuals I know the love and respect of Jesus Christ.

And to a person they appreciate it and may very well consider the Gospel for themselves.

Note: I am going to be confrontational as of reading the quoted post.

Please consider again what is being stated above. I do disagree with it, and I object.  I personally find it a bit of an offensive stance  as there is no WE and no THEM, and there is no YOU that is the sole person with a differing attitude towards any sinner.

Besides; it is the Holy Spirit that does the calling the specific call to any individual to their salvation and eternal life with God. Not any man, none, no man, calls another to salvation.

A saint in Christ Jesus is to proclaim the gospel of Jesus to all the world, all the world includes-all, wherever any saint mets any of the world.  That is a universal command to every saint from God.

BUT; no saint ever saved any person of the world, for that is the agency  of God the Holy Spirit. No one comes to God except that God calls him  first.

There is no brag for any man  in that.

Please consider my objection, thanks for reading of it.

 

In general and to all:

It is MY personal conclusion that there is no boasting that is true about any saint saving  anyone, nor of bringing anyone to salvation. It is God that does that, and God alone, at His good timing and at His pleasure. There is no man that substitutes for God the Holy Spirit. Every sharing of Jesus does not bring about the Holy Spirit calling and the individual responding by turning about to the repentance and salvation. Some do plant the word of God, some do till the soil of the planting, and some do reap in the harvest, but only by the will of God and the agency of the Holy Spirit.  

As a saint I am to labor in the field for sure, but  I create nothing, and save nothing. I might instead be extremely humbled humbled to trembling in fear of the awesome wonder that is my creator and in the awesome and fearsome power and glory of God that I may witness as any individual may be called to turn about by the Holy Spirit.

Each  individual that has already been called into the fold, having been a sheep of the flock of Jesus from before the beginning of all things and known to God from before all time itself,  is to share with everyone, everyone, not a select few, not ignoring anyone, but instead sharing with everyone of the gospel of Jesus. Doing that is nothing special. It is what  a saint in Christ Jesus is to do. Whether given great talent and gift for doing so, or whether given meager skill and having trouble being even clumsy in doing, it is to be done. That sharing  is also  within the  province and sovereignty of God. Every saint can  give  testimony in action and deed, plus voice, as they are blessed with the same gift of eternal life that  will be offered by the Holy Spirit to  all that God deems shall be called. Whether that is everyone or a select number only, it is always God and only God that brings about salvation to eternal life with Him.

 

Back to specifics: All the above simply to say;  it is nothing special to share of Jesus with  a homosexual individual, nor any person, any at all, it is expected. It is expected of the saint in Christ Jesus, the called member of the flock of Jesus, to do so.

 

Edited June 29, 2017 by Neighbor