No infinite torture in hell's lake of fire

[BobRyan]

On 7/1/2017 at 5:03 PM, Yowm said:

Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
(2Th 1:9)

Everlasting destruction would also apply to destruction that lasts

 

- rather then "destroying that never quite destroys but is always trying to destroy"

[BobRyan]

On 7/1/2017 at 9:32 AM, Rick_Parker said:

A finite Hell is a misinterpretation of Scripture.

I finite hell that "destorys BOTH body AND soul" in fiery hell - and that this destruction is permanent - never reversed. Is perfectly in line with Matthew 10:28 and the fact that Rev 14:10-11 shows that the entire event happens "in the presence of the Lamb AND of the angels"

[BobRyan]

On 7/1/2017 at 4:32 PM, Flowerwater said:

I think a fiery eternal hell for finite mistakes is misrepresenting scriptures. It's suppose to be a separation from God. Not a contradiction in terms. A bottomless pit filled with fire and brimstone? 

 

It happens "in the presence" of the Lamb and the angels Rev 14:10 the entire event.

 

And that event "destroys BOTH body AND soul in fiery hell" Matt 10:28

[BobRyan]

On 7/1/2017 at 4:41 PM, missmuffet said:

Question: "Is hell real? Is hell eternal?"

Answer: It is interesting that a much higher percentage of people believe in the existence of heaven than believe in the existence of hell. According to the Bible, though, hell is just as real as heaven. The Bible clearly and explicitly teaches that hell is a real place to which the wicked/unbelieving are sent after death. We have all sinned against God (Romans 3:23). The just punishment for that sin is death (Romans 6:23). Since all of our sin is ultimately against God (Psalm 51:4), and since God is an infinite and eternal Being, the punishment for sin, death, must also be infinite and eternal. Hell is this infinite and eternal death which we have earned because of our sin.

The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as “eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12), “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2), a place where “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49), a place of “torment” and “fire” (Luke 16:23-24), “everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9), a place where “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10-11), and a “lake of burning sulfur” where the wicked are “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10).

The punishment of the wicked in hell is as never ending as the bliss of the righteous in heaven. Jesus Himself indicates that punishment in hell is just as everlasting as life in heaven (Matthew 25:46). The wicked are forever subject to the fury and the wrath of God. Those in hell will acknowledge the perfect justice of God (Psalm 76:10). Those who are in hell will know that their punishment is just and that they alone are to blame (Deuteronomy 32:3-5). Yes, hell is real. Yes, hell is a place of torment and punishment that lasts forever and ever, with no end. Praise God that, through Jesus, we can escape this eternal fate (John 3:16, 18, 36).

https://www.gotquestions.org/hell-real-eternal.html

The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is a perfect example of "eternal fire" no need to speculate.

 

Jude 1

⁶ And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; ⁷ as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

 

 

Edited July 5, 2017 by BobRyan

[Anonymous Aristotle]

17 hours ago, BobRyan said:

Sodom and Gomorrah is a perfect example of "eternal fire" no need to speculate.

 

Jude 1

⁶ And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; ⁷ as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

 

 

And yet the fire there no longer burns where Sodom and Gomorrah once stood. 

[BobRyan]

17 hours ago, Anonymous Aristotle said:

And yet the fire there no longer burns where Sodom and Gomorrah once stood. 

yes - and that is the point - it does it's work and then the destruction lasts forever

[brakelite]

The greatest argument against eternal torment is the cross. If you believe the Son of God paid the full price for our redemption...if you believe that the wages of sin is death....and if you believe the Son of God truly died....then to believe in eternal torment is in complete contradiction to, and a denial of,   all 3 of those concepts.

[brakelite]

1 minute ago, Cobalt1959 said:

That is false.  Jesus' sacrificial death is only propitiatory if you accept it.  It has no affect if you do not accept it as the gift offering that it is. An unbeliever is never covered by Jesus' sacrifice because they do not accept the sacrifice.  What you are trying to teach is universalism and that concept, biblically, is false all day long.

My post did not suggest that unbelievers are saved. The Bible says the just shall live by faith. Faith in God's word. Not faith in man's opinions.

I posited 3 concepts, and you ignored 2 of them. The wages of sin is death. That Jesus suffered that death reveals 2 things...those who do not accept the propitiation, die. Forever. No hope.No resurrection. How? They are destroyed in the fire, "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch."  We are further informed that prior to this, "they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."  This was on the surface of the earth, at the end of the 1000 years. The devil and his angels are thrown into that very same fire, and destroyed "in the presence of the Lamb and the angels". This explains how it is possible to  "tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts."

Question. Please reconcile the love of God for His children with the current popular idea that we can be happy and content throughout eternity knowing that God is deliberately keeping your children/brothers/sisters/parents alive that they may continue to suffer in fire without dying?

 

 

[BobRyan]

1 hour ago, Cobalt1959 said:

The concept is spiritual, and outside of our current dimension, not literal time.  Every person destroyed in Sodom & Gomorrah was wicked and will end up in the Lake of Fire, which is everlasting.  That fire will burn forever.

Lots of "you quoting you" in that post -- what about the Bible?

[BobRyan]

On 7/3/2017 at 0:44 AM, Yowm said:

 

They'll be in a continual state of ruin/destruction. Louw-Nida

That is a claim to "never actually destroyed" - yet the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah via 'eternal fire' in Jude 1 - is such that it "destroys them by reducing them to ashes"

2 Peter 2:6and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;

 

The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is a perfect example of "eternal fire" no need to speculate.

Jude 1

⁶ And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; ⁷ as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Edited July 6, 2017 by BobRyan