YOUNG EARTH EVIDENCE

[Bonky]

1 hour ago, Enoch2021 said:

What on Earth does this have to do with my point, pray tell?

ps.  Design is still DESIGN.  Just because the tranny in my Jeep just wet the bed, doesn't Ipso Facto mean the: Wind, Waves, Erosion, or the Laws of Motion wickered it together initially.

Well usually it's implied that the design was "intelligent".  I don't know if we were designed or not for sure but if we were designed...it doesn't appear that the end result needed to be "good".

1 hour ago, Enoch2021 said:

Well the US has about 78 Million Obese citizens (not including children)...apparently it's working quite well. 

LOL!!   Yeah it works ok but there are plenty of deaths to go along with all the tubbies out there.

[Enoch2021]

1 hour ago, Bonky said:

Well usually it's implied that the design was "intelligent".  

Intelligent Design is painfully redundant, they are Mutually Inclusive.

 

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I don't know if we were designed or not for sure but if we were designed

There's only TWO Choices:  Nature or GOD.  

It's tantamount to being 'not for sure' when reading a Blog... whether an Intelligent Agent constructed it or the Display Pixels conspired with a Keyboard.

 

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...it doesn't appear that the end result needed to be "good".

In this case, it was Perfect; however, there's a little more that needs to be reckoned with. (SEE: Genesis 3)

 

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LOL!!   Yeah it works ok but there are plenty of deaths to go along with all the tubbies out there.

Sounds like 'Head-Space and Timing' of the Operators combined with either poor dentition and/or over-stuffing their Pie Holes.

 

regards

[Goldenshark]

There is a tree (I believe in Canada but it may be somewhere else) that is actually older than many of you are claiming the Earth is (9000 yrs). Not to be rude, but to suggest the Earth is less than 10,000 years old is plainly ignorant.

[Enoch2021]

22 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Or we could put the two choices as...

God/creation vs matter/nature.

Yes

 

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Creation becomes 'nature' in the eyes of an unbeliever.

Yes, but it's not "The CREAT-OR".

 

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To think of matter as eternal is well...not to think.

Yes.

1.  It Directly Violates the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

2.  Directly Violates Quantum Mechanical Laws.

3.  Directly Violates Common Sense.

 

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To say matter is eternal is ascribing god like attributes to matter...so in a sense, one is erecting a god of their own.

Exactly.

 

Carry On

[Enoch2021]

40 minutes ago, Goldenshark said:

There is a tree (I believe in Canada but it may be somewhere else) that is actually older than many of you are claiming the Earth is (9000 yrs).

Really??

Scientifically Validate the Age...

a. What Phenomenon was Observed...?

b. Post the Formal Scientific Hypothesis then EXPERIMENT that validates your claim...?

c. Highlight the "Independent Variable" that was used in the TEST...?

d. Post the Null Hypothesis that was Rejected/Falsified...?

 

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Not to be rude, but to suggest the Earth is less than 10,000 years old is plainly ignorant.

Not to be rude, but to suggest you can Scientifically Validate the Age of something shows a lack of a 5th Grade General Science Acumen.

 

regards

[one.opinion]

There are multiple  techniques that suggest the age of the earth is much older than 6,000-10,000 years. Radiometric dating of rocks, counting ice layers, and counting varves on certain lake beds independently show greater age. Tree rings also show considerable age, but certainly not to the same extent.

[guestman]

The belief that the earth is only several thousand years old has no sound basis. For example, lead, a common metal used to seal pipes and as a protective shielding for radioactive materials, is the decay result (or conversion) of uranium 238, that has a half-life of 4.77 billion years and uranium 235, that has a half-life of 700 million years.(German chemist Martin Klaproth discovered uranium 1789)

Uranium is "manufactured" in a supernova (a star that explodes and is at least ten times the mass of our sun), not on the earth. Lead is produced only after uranium (235) has reached its full decay limit of at least 1.4 billion years on the earth. Uranium's "decay rate is among the slowest known to man", likening it to a water escaping from a pond through a pinprick.(website radioactivity dot eu dot com)

Or of diamonds. These are crystals composed of pure carbon and are formed under intense pressure (some 50,000 bars, with each bar being equal to one atmospheric pressure of 14.7 lbs per square inch) and heat (1800-2200 degrees F.).

These are created at depths in the earth greater than 93 miles and the greatest concentrations are usually found in the oldest continental regions called cratons, that are more than 2 billion years old. Diamonds are then pushed through the earth to the surface by magma flows from volcanoes.

Scientists have determined the ages of some diamonds by dating mineral impurities trapped within diamonds, revealing that some are older than 3 billion years.(2005 Microsoft Reference Library) Thus, the earth obviously had to have been in existence before either lead or diamonds were formed.

Creationism is a teaching that the earth is only 6 to 10 thousand years old and also that each "day" mentioned at Genesis 1 is only 24 hours long. Those who espouse it have seriously failed to make a thorough examination of the Bible, much less the scientific field.

That the word "day" is not just 24 hours long can be seen at Genesis 1, whereby in preparing the earth for human habitation, Jehovah God calls "the light Day, but the darkness he called Night".(Gen 1:5) Here the word "day" is about 12 hours long. But over at Genesis 2, Jehovah lumps all the time for the creation of "earth and heaven" as one "day".(Gen 2:4)

Each of the six "creative" days length of time that God scheduled for the completion of the earth for humans can be closely determined using the Bible. After having completed his final act of creation, man and then woman, declaring that all was "very good" (Gen 1:31), at Genesis 2: 3, it states that Jehovah "went on to bless the seventh day and to declare it sacred, for on it God has been resting from all the work that he has created, all that he purposed to make".

Thence, we are are now living in the 7th "creative" day. Some 4,000 years after Adam's creation that was immediately followed by the 7th "creative" day, the apostle Paul explained that he, along with others who exercised faith could ' enter into God's rest ' day.(Heb 3:11; 4:1)

Combine this with some 2,000 years since Paul's time and then add in Jesus millennial reign of "the thousand years", to bring to completion Jehovah's everlasting purpose for a paradise earth and for "meek" ones to reach human perfection (Matt 5:5; Rev 22:1.2), this allows us to calculate that each "creative" day is approximately 7,000 years.

[Enoch2021]

5 hours ago, guestman said:

The belief that the earth is only several thousand years old has no sound basis.

Really?  

 

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For example, lead, a common metal used to seal pipes and as a protective shielding for radioactive materials, is the decay result (or conversion) of uranium 238, that has a half-life of 4.77 billion years and uranium 235, that has a half-life of 700 million years.(German chemist Martin Klaproth discovered uranium 1789)

Well go ahead, Scientifically Validate please...

The Scientific Method:

a. What Phenomenon was Observed...?

b. Post the Formal Scientific Hypothesis then EXPERIMENT that validates your claim...?

c. Highlight the "Independent Variable" that was used in the TEST...?

d. Post the Null Hypothesis that was Rejected/Falsified...?

 

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Uranium is "manufactured" in a supernova (a star that explodes and is at least ten times the mass of our sun), not on the earth.

1.  SEE: everything after -- "Well go ahead, Scientifically Validate please..." above.

2.  According to Scripture, are 'Stars' SUNS" ??

 

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Lead is produced only after uranium (235) has reached its full decay limit of at least 1.4 billion years on the earth. Uranium's "decay rate is among the slowest known to man", likening it to a water escaping from a pond through a pinprick.(website radioactivity dot eu dot com) Or of diamonds. These are crystals composed of pure carbon and are formed under intense pressure (some 50,000 bars, with each bar being equal to one atmospheric pressure of 14.7 lbs per square inch) and heat (1800-2200 degrees F.).

 

SEE: everything after -- "Well go ahead, Scientifically Validate please..." above.

 

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These are created at depths in the earth greater than 93 miles and the greatest concentrations are usually found in the oldest continental regions called cratons, that are more than 2 billion years old. Diamonds are then pushed through the earth to the surface by magma flows from volcanoes.

SEE: everything after -- "Well go ahead, Scientifically Validate please..." above.

 

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Scientists have determined the ages of some diamonds by dating mineral impurities trapped within diamonds, revealing that some are older than 3 billion years.(2005 Microsoft Reference Library) Thus, the earth obviously had to have been in existence before either lead or diamonds were formed.

SEE: everything after -- "Well go ahead, Scientifically Validate please..." above.

 

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Creationism is a teaching that the earth... 

Define Creationism...? 

 

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Creationism is a teaching that the earth is only 6 to 10 thousand years old and also that each "day" mentioned at Genesis 1 is only 24 hours long. Those who espouse it have seriously failed to make a thorough examination of the Bible, much less the scientific field.

Generalized Sweeping Ipse Dixit Baseless 'bare' Assertion Fallacy.

How have the 'espousers' failed specifically...?

What does "Science" have to do with your fallacious claim?

 

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(A.) That the word "day" is not just 24 hours long can be seen at Genesis 1, (B.) whereby in preparing the earth for human habitation, Jehovah God calls "the light Day, but the darkness he called Night".

Non-Sequitur Fallacy.  (B.) does not follow from (A.).

 

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(Gen 1:5) Here the word "day" is about 12 hours long.

Validate Please...?  And...

 

Professor James Barr, Regius Professor of Hebrew at the University of Oxford (who does not believe Genesis is true)...

‘Probably, so far as I know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Genesis 1–11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that: (a) creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience (b) the figures contained in the Genesis genealogies provided by simple addition a chronology from the beginning of the world up to later stages in the biblical story (c) Noah’s flood was understood to be world-wide and extinguish all human and animal life except for those in the ark. Or, to put it negatively, the apologetic arguments which suppose the "days" of creation to be long eras of time, the figures of years not to be chronological, and the flood to be a merely local Mesopotamian flood, are not taken seriously by any such professors, as far as I know.’

Letter to David C.C. Watson, 23 April 1984.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~sejones/barrlett.html

 

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But over at Genesis 2, Jehovah lumps all the time for the creation of "earth and heaven" as one "day".(Gen 2:4)

Let's see...

(Genesis 2:4) "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,"

Can you please 'suss out' how this passage supports your claim...?

 

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...at Genesis 2: 3, it states that Jehovah "went on to bless the seventh day and to declare it sacred, for on it God has been resting from all the work that he has created, all that he purposed to make".

Thence, we are are now living in the 7th "creative" day.

 

Your "THENCE..." is Non-Sequitur Fallacy to the Premise.  AND, you forgot the first verse...

(Genesis 2:1) "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them."

Define Finished...?

 

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(A.) Some 4,000 years after Adam's creation that was immediately followed by the 7th "creative" day, (B.) the apostle Paul explained that he, along with others who exercised faith could ' enter into God's rest ' day.(Heb 3:11; 4:1)

Non-Sequitur Fallacy.  (B.) does not follow from (A.).

(Hebrews 3:11) "So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)"

(Hebrews 4:1) "Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it."

Can you please 'suss out' how these passages support your claim...?

 

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Combine this with some 2,000 years since Paul's time and then add in Jesus millennial reign of "the thousand years", to bring to completion Jehovah's everlasting purpose for a paradise earth and for "meek" ones to reach human perfection (Matt 5:5; Rev 22:1.2), this allows us to calculate that each "creative" day is approximately 7,000 years.

Combining your above Non-Sequitur Fallacy with this... leaves this ^^^ as a Non-Sequitur Fallacy.

Can you show the BASIS (Foundation) that allows you to make this 'calculation'??

 

Hmmm, if each 'creative day' is 7,000 years and...

(Exodus 20:9-11) "Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:  {10} But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:  {11} For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

... Then God was telling the Jews (servants/guests, cattle) to work 42,000 years, then rest for 7,000 thousand years.

Does that make sense to you?

 

regards

 

 

[guestman]

Enoch2021,

I have no need to prove anything to you as in a court case, starting a debate (see 1 Tim 2:8 whereby Paul said to avoid "anger and debates"), just as Jesus did not have to establish to the Jews (and the Jewish religious leaders) that he was the Messiah (of which despite overwhelming evidence, they murdered him anyway), for as he said: "Wisdom is proved righteous by its works".(Matt 11:19)

I will touch on just a few points. It is known that uranium (named after the planet Uranus that was discovered in 1781 by William Herschel) is produced within a supernova as its mass is "crunched down" by means of gravity, till the star reaches its end of life and explodes, spewing out much of its created elements.

According to the World Nuclear Association, "uranium was apparently formed in supernovas about 6.6 billion years ago" and "is the main source of heat inside the Earth, causing convection and continental drift" being "a mixture largely of two isotopes: uranium 238 (U-238), accounting for 99.3 % and uranium 235 (U-235) about 0.7 %"

It furthers says that "U-238 decays very slowly, its half life being about the same as the age of the earth (4500 million years).....U-235 decays slightly faster" until it converts into the stable or non-radioactive metal of lead-206. According to www.radioactivity dot eu dot com, lead is the final product after uranium goes through "14 generations of the uranium 238 lineage".

And concerning the word "day", this is determined by the context, such as "I hope to see you by the end of the day" that could mean 24 hours, or "we need to work while it is day, since we cannot see this at night", that means approximately 12 hours or ever how many daylight hours there is.

Or as the apostle Paul wrote regarding "the day of Christ Jesus" that encompasses more than 100 years (Phil 1:6), in which Jesus paralleled it to the "days of Noah" (Matt 24:37-39), which is also called "the Lord's day".(Rev 1:10)

Hence, each "creative" day is approximately 7,000 years long, not each regular day of 24 hours that Moses said concerning the Sabbath. It is interesting that the Sabbath day in Moses time was 24 hours, but the Sabbath that Jesus spoke of at Matthew 12:8 is 1,000 years long, also being called Judgment Day.(Matt 11:24)

You seriously fail to grasp the various time lengths that the word "day" is assigned in the Bible. The word "day" in the Bible is a period of time that something is accomplished or happens, such as "Jehovah's day".(Isa 2:12; Joel 2:31)

Since you are in the attack mode rather than willing to reason, I will follow Jehovah's words to the nation of rebellious Israel: "As surely as I am alive.....I will not respond to your inquiry".(Eze 20:31)

[Enoch2021]

20 hours ago, guestman said:

I have no need to prove anything to you as in a court case

Well to be taken seriously, you must SUPPORT what you say.

 

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starting a debate (see 1 Tim 2:8 whereby Paul said to avoid "anger and debates")

1.  Paul said no such thing...

(1 Timothy 2:8) "I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting."

2.  Who said anything about Anger?

3.  Attempting to hide behind a "conjured doctrines" to Pass off your 'Every Wind of Doctrine' is laughable.

 

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I will touch on just a few points.

Please...?

 

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It is known that uranium (named after the planet Uranus that was discovered in 1781 by William Herschel) is produced within a supernova as its mass is "crunched down" by means of gravity

1.  How is it known?

2.  (AGAIN) Are Stars, SUNS?  If so, post the Scripture(s)...?

3.  Which 'gravity'... Einstienian or Newtonian ??

a. Is gravity a Force?

b. Is 'gravity' a Scientific Law or Scientific Theory?

c. What is the CAUSE of 'gravity'...?

 

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till the star reaches its end of life and explodes, spewing out much of its created elements.

Yes, I also watched "How the Universe Works" on the Discovery Channel...I didn't make it all the way through however, because I had to be resuscitated from Tear Jerkin Belly Laugher Syndrome.

 

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According to the World Nuclear Association, "uranium was apparently formed in supernovas about 6.6 billion years ago"

According to The Scientific Method, this is Pseudo-Science "Just-So" Story Telling.

 

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and "is the main source of heat inside the Earth, causing convection and continental drift" being "a mixture largely of two isotopes: uranium 238 (U-238), accounting for 99.3 % and uranium 235 (U-235) about 0.7 %"

See Above: Pseudo-Science "Just-So" Story Telling.

 

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It furthers says that "U-238 decays very slowly, its half life being about the same as the age of the earth (4500 million years).....U-235 decays slightly faster" until it converts into the stable or non-radioactive metal of lead-206. According to www.radioactivity dot eu dot com, lead is the final product after uranium goes through "14 generations of the uranium 238 lineage".

See Above: Pseudo-Science "Just-So" Story Telling.

 

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And concerning the word "day", this is determined by the context, such as "I hope to see you by the end of the day" that could mean 24 hours, or "we need to work while it is day, since we cannot see this at night", that means approximately 12 hours or ever how many daylight hours there is.

The Hebrew word for day: "yom"... When it is modified by a numeral or ordinal in historical narrative (359 times in the OT outside Gen. 1), it always means a literal day of about 24 hours. When modified by “evening and/or morning”, (38 times outside Gen. 1), it always means a literal day. 

 

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Or as the apostle Paul wrote regarding "the day of Christ Jesus" that encompasses more than 100 years (Phil 1:6), in which Jesus paralleled it to the "days of Noah" (Matt 24:37-39), which is also called "the Lord's day".(Rev 1:10)

(Philippians 1:6) "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:"

Point to where Paul even REMOTELY implies that it encompasses 100 years...?

It's becoming Crystal Clear that you NEVER post the actual Passage you Cite...just Book/Chapter/Verse.

 

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Hence, each "creative" day is approximately 7,000 years long

Begging The Question (Fallacy).  Your "Hence" is connected to your ERROR above with (Philippians 1:6).

 

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It is interesting that the Sabbath day in Moses time was 24 hours, but the Sabbath that Jesus spoke of at Matthew 12:8 is 1,000 years long, also being called Judgment Day.(Matt 11:24)

Here we go again...

1.  (Matthew 12:8) " For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day."

Where's the 1,000 years reference??  What Bible are you reading?

2.  (Matthew 11:24) " But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee."

Where's the 1,000 years reference in this passage??

 

ps.  You just said "100 years" above.  So is it 100 or 1,000 years?

 

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You seriously fail to grasp the various time lengths that the word "day" is assigned in the Bible.

Just a cursory review of your responses here... and your initial post, it's Crystal Clear that it is "YOU" that Fail to Grasp.  

 

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The word "day" in the Bible is a period of time that something is accomplished or happens, such as "Jehovah's day".(Isa 2:12; Joel 2:31)

Here we go again...

(Isaiah 2:12) "For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:"

(Joel 2:31) "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come."

Not seeing your point in these passages either.

 

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Since you are in the attack mode rather than willing to reason

I'm in EXPOSE Pretender Mode.  You have not offered any reasonable argument or position, but rather the Exact Opposite....demonstrated quite explicitly.

 

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I will follow Jehovah's words to the nation of rebellious Israel: "As surely as I am alive.....I will not respond to your inquiry".(Eze 20:31)

Here we go again...

(Ezekiel 20:31) "For when ye offer your gifts, when ye make your sons to pass through the fire, ye pollute yourselves with all your idols, even unto this day: and shall I be enquired of by you, O house of Israel? As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I will not be enquired of by you."

False Equivalence Fallacy.

1.  You're not God.

2.  I'm not Israel.

3.  I haven't Blasphemed or Trespassed you.  (The "Context" of Ez 20:31)

 

regards