6 days Creation

[Guest shiloh357]

1 minute ago, one.opinion said:

It really isn't quite that simple. People here make the exact same arguments for a flat earth.

No, they are not making the same argument for a flat earth.  I have read those threads, that is not the argument they are making.  Those arguments stem from a hyper-literal, face-value approach and is not rooted in the authority of Scripture.

Quote

At some point, our interpretation of God's Word needs to be adjusted to what we learn in science.

That makes science greater than Scripture. Science is not infallible and the Bible is wholly supernatural in origin from a God who doesn't make mistakes.   So it comes down to which you trust more, God or science.

 

Quote

Personally, I accept the Bible as my final authority in what it is intended to address. I don't believe the age of the earth or duration of creation are among those things it directly addresses.

So the Bible isn't really your final authority.  You appeal to its' authority when it suits you.  

The Bible directly addresses the duration of creation.  From that we can know that the earth is not millions of years old. 

[one.opinion]

13 hours ago, Tristen said:

I don't think we can say anything is "far-fetched" until we've had a chance to study it (for which we are unfortunately in the early stages, having presumed most of it to be junk for so long). But non-coding DNA can have a range of functions beyond protein coding and regulation - including structural functions like centromeres in cell reproduction. So I have no reason to assume any of it is evolutionary leftovers.

People have been studying transcriptomes for 20+ years, I would say there has been adequate chance to study it. Of course there are new discoveries to be made, but again, a vast majority of scientists that study these things believe that there is indeed junk DNA, and quite a lot of it! Expert consensus really is important, there are definite limits to which the "appealing to consensus is a logical fallacy" argument is useful.

[one.opinion]

1 minute ago, shiloh357 said:

So the Bible isn't really your final authority.  You appeal to its' authority when it suits you.  

The Bible directly addresses the duration of creation.  From that we can know that the earth is not millions of years old. 

Do you also believe in a flat earth? Do you also believe in the geocentric model of the universe? If the answer is "no" to either of those things, then by your own argument, the Bible isn't your final authority, either.

God reveals Himself through His Word and through His Works, and he has given us the ability to discover, learn, and understand what He has made. I repeat - the Bible is my final authority in the matters it was intended to address. Jesus Christ is my savior and Lord because I have acknowledged my sinful nature and have accepted His sacrificial death on my behalf. He has given me new life through the power of His resurrection. THAT is the important stuff, wouldn't you agree?

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, one.opinion said:

Do you also believe in a flat earth? Do you also believe in the geocentric model of the universe? If the answer is "no" to either of those things, then by your own argument, the Bible isn't your final authority, either.

Wrong.  The Bible doesn't teach either one of those concepts.  You cannot find a flat earth anywhere in the Bible.  Flat earth and geocentricism are the product of sloppy hermeneutics, and  a less than literal interpretation of the Bible.   So yes, I reject those and the Bible is still my final authority because I know what it teaches and proper interpretative skills tells me that the Bible presents no cosmology that confirms either a flat earth or a geocentric position.

Quote

God reveals Himself through His Word and through His Works, and he has given us the ability to discover, learn, and understand what He has made. I repeat - the Bible is my final authority in the matters it was intended to address. Jesus Christ is my savior and Lord because I have acknowledged my sinful nature and have accepted His sacrificial death on my behalf. He has given me new life through the power of His resurrection. THAT is the important stuff, wouldn't you agree?

Genesis and the Gospel are connected.  All biblical doctrines including the doctrine of salvation and the doctrine of creation are intrinsically linked.   If you can't trust the Bible on the matters of creation, the origin of sin, etc., then it erodes faith in the other doctrines that are connected to those historical claims.    The doctrines of scripture intersect and build upon each other. 

There are no unimportant doctrines.  Creation is every bit as important as salvation.

[one.opinion]

2 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Creation is every bit as important as salvation.

You and I both believe in creation, we differ in how we understand it. Do you really mean to say that I am any less a child of God than you are because I don't share the exact same view of creation that you do?

[one.opinion]

5 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Wrong.  The Bible doesn't teach either one of those concepts.  You cannot find a flat earth anywhere in the Bible.  Flat earth and geocentricism are the product of sloppy hermeneutics, and  a less than literal interpretation of the Bible.   So yes, I reject those and the Bible is still my final authority because I know what it teaches and proper interpretative skills tells me that the Bible presents no cosmology that confirms either a flat earth or a geocentric position.

I'm not actually going to try to defend the positions of geocentricism or flat earth-ism, but they are indeed built (at least partially) on a very literal interpretation of select verses in the Bible. We just happen to know (unlike the ancient Hebrews) that these positions are incorrect.

[Guest shiloh357]

7 minutes ago, one.opinion said:

You and I both believe in creation, we differ in how we understand it. Do you really mean to say that I am any less a child of God than you are because I don't share the exact same view of creation that you do?

No, I am saying that the Old Earth model is a compromise with science against the Word of God.

[Guest shiloh357]

3 minutes ago, one.opinion said:

I'm not actually going to try to defend the positions of geocentricism or flat earth-ism, but they are indeed built (at least partially) on a very literal interpretation of select verses in the Bible. We just happen to know (unlike the ancient Hebrews) that these positions are incorrect.

No, they were built on a face-value interpretation of Scripture and other very sloppy forms of hermeneutics.   The Scriptures used to support the notion that the Bible teaches a flat earth fails to take into account the phenomenological imagery used in Hebrew poetry.   People who are skilled in proper hermeneutics do not support any silly idea that the Bible supports a flat earth.  It's just laughable.

[George]

Just throwing some of my 2 cents in here.  I certainly don't want to steer off topic.  There was an Orthodox Jew -- a believer in BOTH a young earth -- and at the same time how the universe appears to be 15.5 billion years old using Einstein's theory of relativity.  If you've not watched it, it may help with how both may be true in your mind.

The second point is why the Creation written by Moses is so important?  In John, Jesus says this ...

John 5:46-47 For if you had believed Moses, you would have believed Me, for he wrote of Me.   But if you do not believe his writings, how shall you believe My Words? 

God bless,

George

[one.opinion]

46 minutes ago, George said:

Just throwing some of my 2 cents in here.  I certainly don't want to steer off topic.  There was an Orthodox Jew -- a believer in BOTH a young earth -- and at the same time how the universe appears to be 15.5 billion years old using Einstein's theory of relativity.  If you've not watched it, it may help with how both may be true in your mind.

This was very interesting, thanks for passing it on. Dr. Schroeder's website (http://geraldschroeder.com/wordpress/?page_id=211) is also quite interesting - some rather unorthodox views, but worth considering.

 

54 minutes ago, George said:

John 5:46-47 For if you had believed Moses, you would have believed Me, for he wrote of Me.   But if you do not believe his writings, how shall you believe My Words? 

In the context of John 5, Jesus is specifically addressing Jews critical of Jesus actions on a Sabbath day - instructing a man he had just healed to take up his things and walk. The admonition was directed at those not believing he was the prophesied Savior, not as specific instruction to read everything Moses wrote literally.