Is drinking alcohol a sin?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

OK,

This thread already had a lot in it, with varying opinions. The original post, is really a simple question, not looking for a lot of nuance. However, since opinions vary, there is debate. Seem to me, that this thread has evolved, predictably, in to several different topic, such as:

• Is it a sin to drink, versus is it a sin only if one gets drunk.

• Was wine in the Bible, alcoholic – sometimes, always, never

• Are Christians who drink, stumbling others?

• Are Christians who say it is okay to drink, stumbling others?

There are others, but that is enough for me to comment on, and exit the thread I think.

To the first, the Bible never says it is a sin to drink. The Bible does say, that excessiveness is to be avoided, and certainly drunkenness is also forbidden to Christians.

Is wine in the Bible Alcoholic? Certainly at least sometimes, even often it is, is it always, maybe not. Sugar is what becomes alcohol in the fermentation process. Without someway to sterilize, or refrigerate fruit juices (fruit contains fructose, which will ferment) it will turn to alcohol. Even fruit lying on the ground, becomes alcoholic without help. Monkeys and elephants, can get drunk off fallen fruit, so can people, and since there was no refrigeration, wine would become alcoholic in short order, in a climate such as Israel had/has. When the fermentation continues, the alcohol converts to vinegar, that is just how it works.

You see in the Bible, references, Old and New Testaments, that new wine in old wineskins, burst the wineskins, that is because the fermentation process, produces gases that build pressure in a sealed leather bag, that cannot stretch any further. From these references then, we see that alcohol, is a normal thing to have happening.

Some have said that wine was not like it is today, or may not have been alcoholic. Let's grant that premise, even if it is not well supported scripturally. Since this thread was not about wine, but alcohol, let's consider another term the Bible uses - “Strong Drink”, and then look at a curious passage that uses that term.

Concerning tithing, the Bible allowed for Jews to convert there tithe to money, so that they could bring it to Jerusalem and then:

And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee: Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household.

Simple question:

If the Lord allowed for the Jews to turn their tithes into cash (Deut 14) to buy strong drink with . . . how can anyone say, that drinking alcohol is a sin?

Regarding the issue of stumbling. Paul says it is best to avoid behaviors, if those behaviors will encourage others to go against their conscience. There, it is not about whether the behavior is right or wrong, restricted or not, it is about whether one's behavior is going to lead someone to violate their conscience. Violation one's conscience, is sin, so we should not engage in practices, that even if we are allowed to do, would encourage others to go against what they believe is not o.k.

Paul refers to these people as weaker (in faith I imagine) and we should not be selfish in the exercise of our faith, to encourage our weaker brethren to sin. To my way of thinking, that should be a short term goal, as the longer term alternative, is to edify our brothers and sisters, to build up their faith, so that they have to confidence that comes from knowledge, about our freedom in Christ.

There are those, however, who are aware from experience, that they can become addicted, or will likely get drunk if they start down that path, and of course it should go without saying, that the loving thing to do is to help them stay on the wagon, not shove them off.

Let us always be building others up, in love, and at the same time, let us who may feel that drinking is a sin, not judge others, who believe it is okay, for them.

To be fair, I never said that drinking was a sin. I said that getting a buzz is sin.  It is impossible to drink without getting a buzz unless one has built up tolerance to alcohol. I think it is loving to be realistic about things concerning our walk with the LORD. 

 

[Omegaman 3.0]

21 minutes ago, Blueyedjewel said:

To be fair, I never said that drinking was a sin. I said that getting a buzz is sin.  It is impossible to drink without getting a buzz unless one has built up tolerance to alcohol. I think it is loving to be realistic about things concerning our walk with the LORD. 

I do not disagree about the the loving part, to be sure. The first drink I ever had, would have been a small quantity of creme de menthe, that my parents would let us kids have at Christmas. I have no idea why they did that, but I do not recall any sort of buzz from that, just something that tasted a little better than mouth wash, lol.

I feel pretty certain, that whether one gets a buzz or not, is going to depend on things like their body weight, the volume of drink, the percentage of alcohol in the drink, how much other food is in there stomach and all sorts of other things. 

Additionally, I am not sure what getting a buzz, even means, and I do not know what would make that a sin. I would think, if it makes you act silly, lose judgement, lose coordination, lose inhibitions, noticibly slow your reactions and all sort of other symptoms, then maybe one can make a case.

Those who have an actual interest, can read verses about wine making merry, and judge for themselves, if that is sin form those, clearly, alcohol can be a mood elevator. one can look at some of those verses here. Alcohol also, makes some people mean, that cannot be good.

Suppose though, for the sake of discussion, that you are correct, that one will get a buzz, unless one has built up a tolerance, what about that then? Suppose a believer, was a social drinker before coming to Christ, or had a glass of wine daily with a meal, as is common, especially in European countries. Now, having had this tolerance, would you think it would be okay for them, to have a small amount of alcohol if the amount they had, had no noticeable effects on them, or is that still a sin, to your mind or understanding? 

[Running Gator]

7 hours ago, Blueyedjewel said:

Is anger your weakness? Im not in charge of your fruit.

Yes, it is.

You did not answer the question, is it possible for the actions of one Christian to cause another to stumble?  A simple yes or no will suffice. 

[1to3]

21 hours ago, Blueyedjewel said:

 

21 hours ago, enoob57 said:

Well I was hard bodied most of my life and vanity was there big time... I am not facially attractive and that saved me from being a ladies man (praise God!) but was terribly immoral man: woman was my constant desire! I am still haunted by that which I consider dead beside me...  So all this to say not having anything to attract the opposite sex is a plus for me and I fear to even go back to physical fitness! What horrifies me most is that which loved immorality is still here with me and I hate all that he is~ yet he does not: so with all my ability I reckon him dead but I am aware of the presence for it is like war within my being... Even though I wish to honor God with this (being more disciplined in weight)~  I am afraid of the time and effort will focus me wrong and I will slip backward to the dead things... When I say I want to be free of all this I mean it - I so mean it!

I hear you brother. What I am hearing is fear is dictating your actions and could possibly have you in bondage. I dont mean any disrespect when I say there is no freedom in being fat. It is unhealthy. We are to care for out temples in all ways. I am not guilt free. I still have some issues. I was only replying to your comment to me.  

Taking care of ourselves doesnt have to turn into an idle. Being physically fit does not dictate sinning.   It is what it is and no more! 

I say this in love brother: 

Are you fully trusting the Lord to keep you from immorality if you create boundaries in your flesh to do so?   

If you hate your sin ( I think you do) and you love the LORD with everything  you have ( I think you do) , you can trust your Lord and Savior to give you strength to have fullness in health and fitness w/o sinning. 

I thank you so much for opening your heart to me and sharing your fears. It is not easy to do on a online forum. Being real and transparent is  precious to me.  I guess because I am one who is very guarded and I know how vulnerable I feel when I have let it all hang out.

Now I know how to pray for you. Dont let the enemy win enoob! He is not the master of your ship.  Dont give him a foothold.  It is bondage! The LORD who is faithful is your master! God didnt give your a spirit of fear but of power and love  a sound mind. 

Cast off all that is contrary to the word. Like nike says: JUST DO IT! 

Blessings  

Edited 19 hours ago by Blueyedjewel

 

Reading this made me think about how difficult it is sometimes to keep all the lids on the pots closed (so to speak)  ie trying to control one thing (like keeping fit rather than being to attractive and fit to succumbing to lustful vices that we know we once had a hard time with.

Like Enoob but like on the other side of the coin, many women  choose to let themselves go ( by weight gain and not keeping so fit) rather than be a target to be accosted by men.

Many women choose that as a way to protect themselves.

sometimes people are dealing with many things like sexual addiction, sexual violation that can lead to sexual addiction or perversion in sexual behavior, than they look to other ways lie alcohol or drugs or food to alleviate their inner turmoil, trying to numb themselves from feeling the first sin that traumatized them. Trying to subdue the anger, inner rage, fear that penetrated them when the trauma occurred.

Its a very vicious circle to come out of.

and for sure we need Gods help to overcome.

Step by step,it can be done with Gods help and turning it over to God to help us overcome,help us have the courage to learn new positive strategies of coping and also asking God to heal us from our initial trauma that brought on other sin trauma.

It is by God working in us that healing and change occurs.

Sometimes it does not happen all overnight in one swift sweep, sometimes the healing may happen the moment we ask God to help us but the work in refining continues and is gradual and dependent also on our willingness to keep God in the forefront of our daily challenges.

Virtue that is not tested is not virtue.

so yes we are tested, and sometimes we fail, sometime we need coping mechanism.

sometimes people choose the lesser of two evils in order to cope.

Like overeating to protect themselves from being molested, attacked, violated.

or not keeping  not so fit to reduce attracting the opposite sex or protecting ourselves from our own base nature from taking control.

It may not be the most caring way some may think but it is a way that women and also men protect themselves with.

For sure it is not the healthiest way to protect oneself, but when you are trying to keep from trouble coming your way, sometimes people do what they think can protect themselves from becoming easy prey or succumbing easy to sin.

Sexual sin is one of the most soul damaging sins that exists. Being violated that way tears the inner most core of a persons soul.

It is one of the surest ways a predator can defile , corrupt and traumatize.

the devil only comes to steal, kill and destroy.

On sin leads to another and for sure we need Gods help to overcome the enemy.

Finding God is a true Gift of His Mercy & Grace.

without God sin takes it toll .

 Colossians 3:10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.

  1 Corinthians 6:19-20 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

  Philippians 4:13 For I can do everything through Christ, who gives me strength.

  Romans 13:14 Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.

  Philippians 4:5  Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.

 

 

 

As for alcohol. IT has destroyed so many lives. I think the bible does point that we need to lead temperate lives.

As Christians we need to live by the fruits of the spirit  and that includes temperance.

 

Alcohol

14. 1 Peter 5:8 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

15. 1 Timothy 3:8-9 In the same way, deacons must be well respected and have integrity. They must not be heavy drinkers or dishonest with money. They must be committed to the mystery of the faith now revealed and must live with a clear conscience.

16. 1 Thessalonians 5:6-8 So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet.

17. Ephesians 5:18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.

18. Galatians 5:19-21 When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division,  envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

 

The Holy Spirit will help you

19. Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

20. Romans 8:26  In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.

 

Bible examples

21. Acts 24:25 And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.

22. Proverbs 31:4-5 It is not for kings, Lemuel— it is not for kings to drink wine, not for rulers to crave beer, lest they drink and forget what has been decreed, and deprive all the oppressed of their rights.

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by 1to3

[Running Gator]

Psalm 104:15

And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart

Psalm 4:7

Thou hast put gladness in my heart, more than in the time that their corn and their wine increased.

Job 1:13

And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:

Ecclesiastes 9:7

Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works

 

[1to3]

3 hours ago, Running Gator said:

Job 1:13

And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:

that is the day they died was it not? Job ch1 v19

 

3 hours ago, Running Gator said:

Ecclesiastes 9:7

Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works

This was written by king Solomon who had many wives some who practiced pagan worship, we do not even know if  king Solomon ever did find  salvation with God. Yes God granted him his request to have great knowledge, but with that came also a lot of responsibility of knowing how to handle well his given privileges. Solomon got swayed by the influences of his pagan wives and from all we read about king Solomon who most likely tried every vice  offered to him, we cannot for sure say that he found salvation in God even though God bestowed to him many great things.

Just like Saul. God gave Saul many opportunities, but Saul threw away Gods opportunities by doing his own thing by constantly taking his ow will back instead of turning his will over to the care of God..

 

Also in the old testament:

Genesis 9:21

Noah's Shame and Canaan's Curse
20Then Noah began farming and planted a vineyard. 21He drank of the wine and became drunk, and uncovered himself inside his tent. 22Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brothers outside .

Also were they not having a big pagan orgy party of ( sex & drunkenness?) when Moses went up to receive the 10 commandments from God and came back down?and found them partying, dancing and worshiping the golden calf? (There I don't know if it mentions drunkenness, but they seemed to be drunk on something). Its  in Exodus 32: 19 somewhere...around there

 

Now, this is not me saying you should not drink alcohol. My opinion should not matter in this regard, but the opinion of Gods Word does matter.

Thanks for sharing passages to point that people got drunk and merry in the old testament of the Holy Bible.

In the grand scale of things written in the bible concerning intoxicating drinks, the bible seems to caution us about its usage.

 

 

FACTS TO KNOW

1) The Bible does teach total abstinence from alcohol. Both the main Hebrew word for wine and the Greek word for wine can mean either fermented grape juice or intoxicating wine. The English word wine originally had two meanings also - unfermented juice or alcoholic drink.

2) In the Bible, verses to show God approves of wine are speaking about unfermented juice. Verses that expose the evils of wine are speaking about intoxicating wine.

3) The Bible says alcoholic drink is evil. It is not just the amount one drinks that makes drinking a sin. God condemns the drink itself. (Prov 20:1 KJV) Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

4) God does not lead us into evil; He delivers us from it. He does not teach us to practice evil in moderation. Jesus did not make, use, approve, commend, or tell us to use intoxicating wine.

5) God made man to have fellowship with Him. Alcohol goes directly to the brain, the communication center of the body. It interferes with God’s purpose for mankind.

 

75 WARNINGS

There is more Scripture condemning the use of alcoholic beverages than will be found on the subjects of lying, adultery, swearing, cheating, hypocrisy, pride, or even blasphemy.

 

1) Genesis 9:20-26 - Noah became drunk; the result was immorality and family trouble.

2) Genesis 19:30-38 - Lot was so drunk he did not know what he was doing; this led to immorality

3) Leviticus 10:9-11 - God commanded priests not to drink so that they could tell the difference between the holy and the unholy.

4) Numbers 6:3 - The Nazarites were told to eat or drink nothing from the grape vine.

5) Deuteronomy 21:20 - A drunken son was stubborn and rebellious.

6) Deuteronomy 29:5-6 - God gave no grape juice to Israel nor did they have intoxicating drink in the wilderness.

7) Deuteronomy 32:33 - Intoxicating wine is like the poison of serpents, the cruel venom of asps.

8) Judges 13:4, 7, 14 - Samson was to be a Nazarite for life. His mother was told not to drink wine or strong drink.

9) 1 Samuel 1:14-15 - Accused, Hannah said she drank no wine.

10) 1 Samuel 25:32-38 - Nabal died after a drunken spree.

11) 2 Samuel 11:13 - By getting Uriah drunk, David hoped to cover his sin.

12) 2 Samuel 13:28-29 - Amnon was drunk when he was killed.

13) 1 Kings 16:8-10 - The king was drinking himself into drunkenness when he was assassinated

14) 1 Kings 20:12-21 - Ben-Hadad and 32 other kings were drinking when they were attacked and defeated by the Israelites.

15) Esther 1:5-12 - The king gave each one all the drink he wanted. The king was intoxicated when he commanded the queen to come.

16) Psalm 75:8 - The Lord’s anger is pictured as mixed wine poured out and drunk by the wicked.

17) Proverbs 4:17 - Alcoholic drink is called the wine of violence.

18) Proverbs 20:1 - Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging.

19) Proverbs 23:19-20 - A wise person will not be among the drinkers of alcoholic beverages.

20) Proverbs 23:21 - Drunkenness causes poverty.

21) Proverbs 23:29-30 - Drinking causes woe, sorrow, fighting, babbling, wounds without cause and red eyes.

22) Proverbs 23:31 - God instructs not to look at intoxicating drinks.

23) Proverbs 23:32 - Alcoholic drinks bite like a serpent, sting like an adder.

24) Proverbs 23:33 - Alcohol causes the drinker to have strange and adulterous thoughts, produces willfulness, and prevents reformation.

25) Proverbs 23:34 - Alcohol makes the drinker unstable

26) Proverbs 23:35 - Alcohol makes the drinker insensitive to pain so he does not perceive it as a warning. Alcohol is habit forming.

27) Proverb 31:4-5 - Kings, Princes, and others who rule and judge must not drink alcohol. Alcohol perverts good judgment.

28) Proverbs 31:6-7 - Strong drink could be given to those about to perish or those in pain. Better anesthetics are available today.

29) Ecclesiastes 2:3 - The king tried everything, including intoxicating drink, to see if it satisfied. It did not. (Ecclesiastes 12:8)

30) Ecclesiastes 10:17 - A land is blessed when its leaders do not drink.

31) Isaiah 5:11-12 - Woe to those who get up early to drink and stay up late at night to get drunk.

32) Isaiah 5:22 - Woe to "champion" drinkers and "experts" at mixing drinks.

33) Isaiah 19:14 - Drunken men stagger in their vomit.

34) Isaiah 22:12-13 - The Israelites choose to drink; their future looks hopeless to them.

35) Isaiah 24:9 - Drinkers cannot escape the consequences when God judges.

36) Isaiah 28:1 - God pronounces woe on the drunkards of Ephraim.

37) Isaiah 28:3 - Proud drunkards shall be trodden down.

38) Isaiah 28:7 - Priests and prophets stagger and reel from beer and wine, err in vision, and stumble in judgment.

39) Isaiah 28:8 - Drinkers’ tables are covered with vomit and filth.

40) Isaiah 56:9-12 - Drinkers seek their own gain and expect tomorrow to be just like today.

41) Jeremiah 35:2-14 - The Rechabites drank no grape juice or intoxicating wine and were blessed.

42) Ezekiel 44:21 - Again God instructed the priests not to drink wine.

43) Daniel 1:5-17 - Daniel refused the king’s intoxicating wine and was blessed for it along with his abstaining friends.

44) Daniel 5:1 - Belshazzar, ruler of Babylon; led his people in drinking.

45) Daniel 5:2-3 - The king, along with his nobles, wives, and concubines, drank from the goblets which had been taken from God’s temple.

46) Daniel 5:4 - Drinking wine was combined with praising false gods.

47) Daniel 5:23 - God sent word to Belshazzar that punishment would be swift for the evil he had committed.

48) Hosea 4:11 - Intoxicating wine takes away intelligence.

49) Hosea 7:5 - God reproves princes for drinking.

50) Joel 1:5 - Drunkards awake to see God’s judgment.

51) Joel 3:3 - The enemy is judged for selling girls for wine.

52) Amos 2:8 - Unrighteous acts of Israel included the drinking of wine which had been taken for the payment of fines.

53) Amos 2:12 - Israel is condemned for forcing Nazarites to drink wine.

54) Micah 2:11 - Israelites are eager to follow false teachers who prophesy plenty of intoxicating drinks.

55) Nahum 1:10 - The drunkards of Nineveh will be destroyed by God.

56) Habakkuk 2:5 - A man is betrayed by wine.

57) Habakkuk 2:15 - Woe to him that gives his neighbor drink.

58) Habakkuk 2:16 - Drinking leads to shame.

59) Matthew 24:48-51 - A drinking servant is unprepared for his Lord’s return.

60) Luke 1:15 - John the Baptist drank neither grape juice nor wine.

61) Luke 12:45 - Christ warned against drunkenness.

62) Luke 21:34 - Drunkenness will cause a person not to be ready for the Lord’s return.

63) Romans 13:13 - Do not walk in drunkenness or immorality.

64) Romans 14:21 - Do not do anything that will hurt your testimony as a believer.

65) 1 Corinthians 5:11 - If a Christian brother is a drinker, do not associate with him.

66) 1 Corinthians 6:10 - Drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God

67) Galatians 5:21 - Acts of the sinful nature, such as drunkenness, will prohibit a person from inheriting the kingdom of God.

68) Ephesians 5:18 - In contrast to being drunk with wine, the believer is to be filled with the Spirit.

69) 1 Thessalonians 5:6-7 - Christians are to be alert and self-controlled, belonging to the day. Drunkards belong to the night and darkness.

70) 1 Timothy 3:2-3 - Bishops (elders) are to be temperate, sober, and not near any wine.

71) 1 Timothy 3:8 - Deacons are to be worthy of respect and not drinkers.

72) 1 Timothy 3:11 - Deacons’ wives are to be temperate and sober.

73) Titus 1:7-8 - An overseer is to be disciplined.

74) Titus 2:2-3 - The older men and older women of the church are to be temperate and not addicted to wine.

75) 1 Peter 4:3-4 - The past life of drunkenness and carousing has no place in the Christian’s life.

https://www.scionofzion.com/drinking.htm

 

Edited August 10, 2017 by 1to3

[Running Gator]

31 minutes ago, 1to3 said:

Now, this is not me saying you should not drink alcohol. My opinion should not matter in this regard, but the opinion of Gods Word does matter.

Thanks for sharing passages to point that people got drunk and merry in the old testament of the Holy Bible.

In the grand scale of things written in the bible concerning intoxicating drinks, the bible seems to caution us about its usage.

 

You are correct, your opinion does not matter.  And God does caution us about the usage of alcohol, just as he cautions us about wealth and a great many thing that are not wrong in and of themselves, but in their overuse or too much importance in our lives.

The Bible tells me that Jesus both made wine (the best wine anyone had ever had) and drank wine.  I believe that Jesus did not sin, thus having a drink of wine or other alcoholic beverage could not be a sin. 

Quote

 

FACTS TO KNOW

1) The Bible does teach total abstinence from alcohol. Both the main Hebrew word for wine and the Greek word for wine can mean either fermented grape juice or intoxicating wine. The English word wine originally had two meanings also - unfermented juice or alcoholic drink.

2) In the Bible, verses to show God approves of wine are speaking about unfermented juice. Verses that expose the evils of wine are speaking about intoxicating wine.

 

I am going to be very honest here, I quit reading your link after I got to number 2.  This is one of the most ridiculous things I have seen put into print.   The word can mean either alcoholic or nonalcoholic drink, but every time it is used in a "good" way it is the non-alcholic way.   And how do they know this?  Oh they don't, they made it up to support their legalistic view of alcohol.  

Here is my bottom line, if you think that drinking is a sin, then do not do it, but leave the judgement of those that disagree with you at the door, it is not necessary or valid. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, 1to3 said:

Reading this made me think about how difficult it is sometimes to keep all the lids on the pots closed (so to speak)  ie trying to control one thing (like keeping fit rather than being to attractive and fit to succumbing to lustful vices that we know we once had a hard time with.

Like Enoob but like on the other side of the coin, many women  choose to let themselves go ( by weight gain and not keeping so fit) rather than be a target to be accosted by men.

Many women choose that as a way to protect themselves.

sometimes people are dealing with many things like sexual addiction, sexual violation that can lead to sexual addiction or perversion in sexual behavior, than they look to other ways lie alcohol or drugs or food to alleviate their inner turmoil, trying to numb themselves from feeling the first sin that traumatized them. Trying to subdue the anger, inner rage, fear that penetrated them when the trauma occurred.

Its a very vicious circle to come out of.

and for sure we need Gods help to overcome.

Step by step,it can be done with Gods help and turning it over to God to help us overcome,help us have the courage to learn new positive strategies of coping and also asking God to heal us from our initial trauma that brought on other sin trauma.

It is by God working in us that healing and change occurs.

Sometimes it does not happen all overnight in one swift sweep, sometimes the healing may happen the moment we ask God to help us but the work in refining continues and is gradual and dependent also on our willingness to keep God in the forefront of our daily challenges.

Virtue that is not tested is not virtue.

so yes we are tested, and sometimes we fail, sometime we need coping mechanism.

sometimes people choose the lesser of two evils in order to cope.

Like overeating to protect themselves from being molested, attacked, violated.

or not keeping  not so fit to reduce attracting the opposite sex or protecting ourselves from our own base nature from taking control.

It may not be the most caring way some may think but it is a way that women and also men protect themselves with.

For sure it is not the healthiest way to protect oneself, but when you are trying to keep from trouble coming your way, sometimes people do what they think can protect themselves from becoming easy prey or succumbing easy to sin.

Sexual sin is one of the most soul damaging sins that exists. Being violated that way tears the inner most core of a persons soul.

It is one of the surest ways a predator can defile , corrupt and traumatize.

the devil only comes to steal, kill and destroy.

On sin leads to another and for sure we need Gods help to overcome the enemy.

Finding God is a true Gift of His Mercy & Grace.

without God sin takes it toll .

 Colossians 3:10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.

  1 Corinthians 6:19-20 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

  Philippians 4:13 For I can do everything through Christ, who gives me strength.

  Romans 13:14 Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the flesh.

  Philippians 4:5  Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.

 

 

 

As for alcohol. IT has destroyed so many lives. I think the bible does point that we need to lead temperate lives.

As Christians we need to live by the fruits of the spirit  and that includes temperance.

 

Alcohol

14. 1 Peter 5:8 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

15. 1 Timothy 3:8-9 In the same way, deacons must be well respected and have integrity. They must not be heavy drinkers or dishonest with money. They must be committed to the mystery of the faith now revealed and must live with a clear conscience.

16. 1 Thessalonians 5:6-8 So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet.

17. Ephesians 5:18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.

18. Galatians 5:19-21 When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division,  envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

 

The Holy Spirit will help you

19. Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

20. Romans 8:26  In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans.

 

Bible examples

21. Acts 24:25 And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.

22. Proverbs 31:4-5 It is not for kings, Lemuel— it is not for kings to drink wine, not for rulers to crave beer, lest they drink and forget what has been decreed, and deprive all the oppressed of their rights.

 

Thank you sister for weighing in on these things. I agree with all that you have said.

 

Blessings  

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Running Gator said:

Yes, it is.

You did not answer the question, is it possible for the actions of one Christian to cause another to stumble?  A simple yes or no will suffice. 

You are comparing oranges with apples. 

The actions of the "drinker" causing another to stumble does NOT EQUAL your anger "weakness" .

 

Keep in Step with the Spirit

¹⁶ But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. ¹⁷ For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.¹⁸ But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. ¹⁹ Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, ²⁰ idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, ²¹ envy,^[d] drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do^[e] such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. ²² But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, ²³ gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. ²⁴ And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

[Neighbor]

Aha, that's it!  I wanted to keep the women from accosting me, I hadn't really acknowledged that even to myself until now. So I aged, got fat, gained bad knees, extra chins, and more than a few wrinkles to protect me.

Did all that, and still  a wonderful woman got my heart, and I have  gained the devotion of hers. Go figure. Now I'm old, wrinkled, fat,  and very very happy,- with a bride that loves me, and me her.

Edited August 10, 2017 by Neighbor