Apostles and Prophets

[frienduff thaylorde]

4 hours ago, Blueyedjewel said:

 I am too mainly because it doesnt apply!

I just decided I want a title .  SO here it is.   its a long one so bear with me.

feel free to call me.  One who was nothing but vile wicked and evil.....and Grace appeared and Christ is the only goodness and righteousness this man has.

Kinda has a sound like an indain tribes man.  OR a shorter version is.  Man who knows nothing but evil , were it not for God who works within to show me Goodness to live by .

 

[Reinitin]

4 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

I am in no way saying that God does not work through us.  The associate Pastor you mentioned.  I highly doubt he is going around telling people he is a prophet.  There is no way I am ever going to go around telling people I am some kind of prophet and I will always be highly suspicious of anyone who feels the need to tack that kind of title in front of their name.  When someone starts taking that route, they often think this makes them look better, and more Godly and more important.  But in reality, all it does is ramp up the responsibility and accountability they now have before God for their behavior, no matter what it is.

No he is not. refer to warnings against false prophets.. they boast:) but the false shouldnt take away our worship, glory to God or gratitude for the pure and amazing work he does through us and his using a Spirit of Prophecy to build the kingdom of God.

[firestormx]

 I thank everyone for posting. I guess I should just lay my heart and thoughts on this bare and make it plain for all. I am just looking to understand some things I just can't shake from my heart. 

 If Apostles and Prophets are not for today, then how are so many deceived into thinking they are for today or that they are called into this ministry? Is it just pride? A deception to pull people away from God and get them to look at men? 

If Apostles and Prophets are for today, then where are they? when tragedies strike, where are they? How come the only time the power of God seems to come upon anyone is when an offering plate is being passed around? When Paul and Barnabus went into 1 town they called them Zeus and Apollo ( Gods ) because the power of God was on them so strong, if I'm not mistaken. Peter's shadow healed people as he walked down the street because of the presence and power of God that was upon him so strong. There are so many people lost in darkness and pain that is almost beyond words. Where are these Apostles and Prophets who are fearlessly suppose to go into the heart of darkness in this world to be a light and beacon? Who stands in the presence and Power of God so mightily that none can deny that the Lord is God, the way Paul and Barnabus and the 12 did. Who rebukes the hypocrisy that seems to be so rampant in the Church and this world today. Being an Apostle or Prophet is supposed to be about your relationship with Jesus and helping others to build that super close relationship with him as well.  I asked before and I ask again. If Apostles and Prophets are for today, then where are they?

I just don't understand. Thank you to all who have posted in this thread. Maybe I just won't find peace on this subject.

God Bless you all

Joseph

Edited August 28, 2017 by firestormx
Clarity

[firestormx]

16 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

The Pentecostal/Charismatic believes that all of the spiritual gifts that the Apostles possessed are still in use today.  Therefore, they still see the need for Apostles and Prophets.  This is not something they believe in so that they can appear more important or spiritual, they see these offices as necessary to do more "spiritual" work.  Such as messages in tongues, interpretations, a prophetic message, miracles, etc.  I think their belief is wrong, but they mean well even though I do not believe it really gives them any tangible advantage over any other body of Christians honestly striving to serve the Lord.  They strive to do things the way they thing the 1st Century church might have in regards to all these things.

The above sounds more like what I lean too. But where is the power of God at? I don't care about signs and wonders but there is no way you can be close enough to God to be genuinely walking in these ministries and not have the Spirit and Power of God be upon you mightily.  

 

19 minutes ago, Cobalt1959 said:

New Apostolic Reformation group, on the other hand, has a belief in these offices existence that is based on some really flawed and self-serving reasoning.  The NAR believes that God has restored these offices during this time so the NAR movement can usher in the Kingdom themselves.  Their view of "evangelism" is growing the body so that they can establish their own theocracy instead of simply leading people to Christ.  The NAR movement is all about feelings.  It is the experience that is important.  Some of the NAR leaders actually state that they do not teach the Bible because scripture just gets in the way of having nothing but signs and wonders all the time.  For the NAR movement, gold dust falling from the ceiling and babbling incoherently are the spiritual equivalent of a crack pipe.  They have large and carefully staged healing meetings, (think Benny Hinn) where people are not really healed, but it looks good and makes them feel like they are accomplishing something, so what the heck?  This movement completely orbits around the self-importance of the people who feel they are the chosen ones meant to conquer the Earth for God, with the added perk of possessing material wealth as a bonus for a job well-done.  The NAR is far-removed from actual 1st Century Christianity.  Although they will used Jesus' name as a linguistic touchstone, they do not really serve Jesus, or preach the Gospel at all.  They preach one of the "other" doctrines that Paul warned about.

Never really heard of this but this sounds like a bunch of nonsense. If this kinda stuff is people's only exposure to this subject, then no wonder people don't think it is for today.

Thanks for the info to pray over. 

[frienduff thaylorde]

2 minutes ago, firestormx said:

The above sounds more like what I lean too. But where is the power of God at? I don't care about signs and wonders but there is no way you can be close enough to God to be genuinely walking in these ministries and not have the Spirit and Power of God be upon you mightily.  

 

Never really heard of this but this sounds like a bunch of nonsense. If this kinda stuff is people's only exposure to this subject, then no wonder people don't think it is for today.

Thanks for the info to pray over. 

Yeah flee the nar .   but the Holy spirit is the same yesterday today and forever as is GOD as Is Christ as they are all one.  thus the same gifts are all here today.

 

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 hour ago, Davida said:

Personally , I don't think that there are any Apostles or Bishops in the present. Paul was the last made Apostle imo.  I have met several who called themselves that and it made me more convinced this has ceased.  I was in a Church were the audience stood up and clapped and cheered for their "Bishop"  I felt very sick in my spirit and I did not cheer & clap I felt that glory was for the LORD GOD & the Lord Jesus Christ, it was not for him.

oh yeah I had ran too if I had seen it , right from it.   so many put hopes in these men , and man if you point out the error in their leader.....its as though you blashphemed God himself

to these folks.   Oh how dangerous it is..........to trust in man .  OH how dangerous it is to not test all who speak.    FOR GOD alone is infallible , any man can fail or lie

BUT NOT GOD , AND THEM HOLY SCRIPS SURE make one wise unto salvation through faith IN CHRIST . 

[frienduff thaylorde]

I think I know what has happened a lot of folks have seen what I do.   I do NOT however say their are not all offices still available.

Don't see HOW the body or SPIRIT would ever change.   What I am saying however is ...........every single man or worse.......woman, cause yeah that cant be.

but every single one I have ever met personally or seen who has climaed to be a apostel.   Sit down for a second.  THEY all been found major as in far out false.

not even close.   This does not make me think their are not still a apostel .  barnabas and paul were apostels. SURE not the original twelve.  THUS not the foundation ones.

But they were.   I am sure some still exist.   BUT you know why we don't see them , why they are not in plain sight and popular andwell known.

CAUSE NO true man of GOD is POPULAR  and do they works for the EYES OF MEN TO SEE and to get pocket books FILLED.

them are the false ones.    BUT JESUS CHRIST the same yesterday and forever , GOD , the SPIRIT and the great commison.   SO I am quite  sure

the same epuipping by the same gifts and positions are still avaiiable in all generations.  In fact I have no doubt , cause GOD does not change, nor does the gifts of the spirit .

[Marilyn C]

16 hours ago, firestormx said:

Would you mind going into a little more detail about the qualifications of an Apostle? Also, have you found the Apostles you have grown up under had a deeper spirit and power of the Lord about them? Do you agree with the popular opinion that the Prophets today are different than the Prophets from the Old Testament? Also, any other thoughts you feel like sharing from your experience with this would be appreciated. thanks

Hi firestormx,

Thank you for being interested and I would certainly love to share. I will write from (Apostle) W.A.C. Rowe`s book, `One Lord, One Faith,` which is has such chapters as - the Godhead, Human Nature, Life & death of Christ, Justification & Sanctification, Baptism of the Holy Spirit, Gifts of the Holy Spirit, Sacraments, Scriptures, Governmental (Apostles & Prophets), Divine healing etc.

So in the Governmental section of Ps. Rowe`s book I will write -

The Significance of Apostleship.

Apostleship is the manifestation of specific ministries of Christ. It is the Apostle-Christ in Apostolic action through human channels.

Its Resident Source.

Apostleship is wholly resident in our glorious Head. Apostleship therefore, always directs our eyes to Him Who is its fount. Apostleship ever exalts the Christ (Acts 2: 32, 33;  3: 15;  4: 33;  5: 31) it is wholly of Him and wholly to Him.

Christ gives men to the Church as Apostles (Eph. 4: 8 - 11). He distributes His Apostleship in and through `gifted` men. Each Apostle carries but a fraction of the whole which is, in entirety, in “The Apostle…..Christ Jesus”  (Heb. 3: 1)

This is seen in Acts 1: 17 which declares that Judas “….obtained part of this ministry” of Apostleship. It is wise and right that every Apostle should realize the he is only a fragment of the whole and not to think more highly of himself than he ought, and that he can be dispensed with if he steps out of the will of God.

This will produce lowliness which is ever precious in the eyes of Christ. Judas fell from the Apostleship (Acts 1: 25). His part was given to Matthias. One stepped out and the other stepped in. This is solemn!

On the other hand, to the lowly, spiritual man who knows he is only a part it is a deep, inward strength. For, after all, in the will of God, the part is indispensable to the perfect operation of the whole.

 

 

[Marilyn C]

Its varied Substance.

While we readily agree that the miraculous is a part of the ministry of Apostleship, there is a popular misconception which insists that an Apostle must be some kind of itinerant magician.

The spiritual content is ever of the highest value. The substance of this ministry is Christ-imparted. A seminary may make a professor, or a preacher, but never an Apostle. Fisherman - Peter, and Publican - Matthew, never rubbed shoulders with academicians and yet were glorious Apostles. Of course, learning has its value, but if allowed to develop unchecked will, like the cuckoo, soon turn the tender, fledglings of revelation out of their rightful nest.

An Apostle is the messenger of the Lord. The ministry bears in its substance an - Enduement of Leadership (Phil 3: 17). It is a delicate and divine leadership in all affairs and particularily relating to the deep and inmost things of God. It is sacred and enlightened because the Apostle who has been “sent from” will know how to “lead to.”

Then the Apostolic function carries the - Hall-mark of Authority (2 Peter 3: 2). As the Master spake, so will His messengers. The deep inward conviction which gives birth to this authority, is absolutely opposite to the mechanical nature of hierarchical  infallibility.

Also we will find the - Exemplification of Grace (Rom. 1: 5;  12: 6). The office is not to function in the flesh, but in the Spirit. The grace of Apostleship will be evident. Watch its charm in the maturing of the Apostleship in Peter. See how it shines in his two epistles and note his last words which include the injunction “grow in grace…” Even in the strong dealings of the Apostles there was holy charm.

There is included the -Comprehensiveness of Ministry which covers spirit, soul and body, as a deep and moving concern (1 Thess. 5: 23) and which embraces the teaching and practical side - revelation and the miraculous.

What of the - Integrity of Stewardship? Is not the Apostleship the special trustee of truth? Is not the term “….the Apostles` doctrine” (Acts 2: 42) used? Do not the Apostles say in 1 Thess 2: 4 “ We were….put in trust with the Gospel?”  Christ sifts and imparts in order that a sterling dependability may be manifested.

 

 

[Marilyn C]

Of necessity there will be the - Enablement of Administration (2 Cor. 11: 28). What a sweep of responsibilities come within the orbit of administration from the direction of material matters (Acts 4: 35;  1 Cor. 16: 1) to the overall direction of spiritual affairs in all the Churches such as can be seen reflected in Titus 1: 5 and 2 Tim. 4: 10 - 12.

The seventh of these perfect characteristics of Apostolic ministry is the - Quality of Blending. This is its relationship to the ministry of the other ascension gifts (Epf. 4: 11). It is the keystone of the arch of ministry interlocking all into a divine unity through which souls pass into the spiritual temple of God. Mature Apostolic ministry often exhibits characteristics of all four ministries of Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor and Teacher, which enables the Apostle to enter into the experiences of the others so that he may pioneer a way in divine leadership, and that they might be blended in operation.

 

There are other topics such as -

The Signs of Apostleship

The Seal of Apostleship

The Service of Apostleship

Prophets and Prophecy (1)

The Operation of Prophecy (2)

Mystery and Faith in Prophecy (3)

 

 

 Marilyn