Faith without works is Dead

[Reinitin]

On 9/19/2017 at 4:33 PM, Yowm said:

I never said it is right to attack new comers or anyone. When you falsely bear witness of someone, that would be an attack.

We can attack a position but not the person. The problem is many take an attack on a position as a personal attack.

Go back and look. I never once said i believe in regeneration our salvation through anything but faith in Christ Jesus and his inclusion of us in salvation for belief in Him and the message he sent his diciples out with John 17 if we believe/obey their message we are included in those given to Christ out of the world. 

I believe We are new creations in Christ given his spirit to live in devotion to Him. Christ is in us making our Father known to us.

We have flesh and a sin nature still at work in us. But Christ's Spirit in us and helps us put the rebellion against God in our sin nature to death.

Romans 6 has more the 1 verse in it and tells us there are two laws at work in us two natures now that we are saved. CHOOSE the right master or your gonna remain a slave to the sin Nature.

I say "try out the new creation in you and devotion to Christ and walk in the new life. Jesus said "be baptised" in water. Who are you gonna serve now?

 If truth makes you condemned and a heritic on this website. Then Amen I'll wait for Jesus to judge when he returns. But not take part in this fruitless conversation of people claiming a 100% faith in Christ for salvation but no desire for instruction in the Word of how to walk out their faith in Christ as a new creation and by Holy Spirit of God.

Jesus full of the Spirit we have been given and with the same sin nature we have, did all God required.

We are not Christ and we fail righteousness test of no offencr But, we are created in his likeness and through him can obey the spirit in us and the law of righteoussness in our hearts.  We should have the desire to hearken to the Lord and apostals and try to do as they suggest and add to ourself the spiritual strengths like brotherly love, endurance, faithfulness and fruits like joy, peace, love patience. Paul is but one branch connected to Christ. We have to be rooted in Christ not doctrins that teach "you do not have to do anything Jesus or peter, John or James say's".

Thats just a doctrin of the sin nature and lawlessness. Jesus gave us "His Spirit A new creation" You think we have it to ignore instructions and commands from Jesus and the Discipled?

Paul even gives commands in the word doesn't He? Do you know them? Do you hearken to them? then why ignore the root for a branch that can't give life.  But with this doctrin if man you can ignore it all?

No with our flesh we can ignore it all and do as we desire. but not with the Lords Spirit.

Jesus also appeared to James after the resurrection. Why can't his Word and Jesus's Words have any authority? I say because flesh which is dead or under law is still reigning not Christ.

I do not believe in baptism rejereration I believe Jesus Christ is Lord and our Lord said be baptised in water and for those who witness if him till the end of the age to baptise those who believe in water in the name of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. Amen

You can walk, believe and teach what ever you like. But Christians testify of the Lord Jesus Christ not a pervertions of scriptures from paul into teaching disobedience and resisting the Spirit of obedience given to us by the Lord.

yeah we fail but dont teach people faithlessness and not to even try to walk in our new Spirit and that pleases the Lord of our devotion. 

[Reinitin]

On 9/19/2017 at 4:33 PM, Yowm said:

I never said it is right to attack new comers or anyone. When you falsely bear witness of someone, that would be an attack.

We can attack a position but not the person. The problem is many take an attack on a position as a personal attack.

you don't say it is right cause you know it is wrong but it is something you do and support. I went to dinner with a older couple from a osas dictrin church and his wife. They stole the sugar, salt shaker and toilet paper out of the bathroom right in front of me as we talked about the Lord. I asked why are you taking those? It was for their camper. They justified their thievery by the death of the law nailed to the cross. Perveretion of flesh comes from perverted understanding and teaching a common path of flesh for those who teach "you don't have to do the word or hearken unto the voice of the Lord". If you ignore his voice in scripture you will be seared from in in your spirit.

[4LdKHVCzRDj2]

3 hours ago, Yowm said:

Where have I taught faithlessness? Show me or quit with the false accusations.

As I have noticed... Some things people say give the understanding they are encouraging and teaching faithlessness, walk in the flesh, etc. When in reality they do not, but their posts give the impression of that; especially for people who are new in the faith.

 

It seems to me that most of the discussions like this are started by precipitated or improper judgment.

 

And I believe we should be more careful when posting as well, so problems and vain discussions like this can be avoided. As I see there are some posts that aren't so clear and informative, giving them a broad margin of possible interpretations.

Edited September 22, 2017 by 4LdKHVCzRDj2

[Reinitin]

19 hours ago, Yowm said:

Where have I taught faithlessness? Show me or quit with the false accusations.

because your doctrin does not acknowledge Paul in collosians 2 or 3 (i forget exactly where) and Romans 6 Paul shows He assumes all in faith have followed Christ in baptism. in acts 16 and 18 Paul is preaching the gospel and we see those who recieve his message are baptized.

Paul makes several references to teaching all the Lord commands and praises the churches for obedience to Christ. Praises for submission to the reign of Christ in our hearts.

Paul says the Lord didn't send him to baptize but to preach the gospel. But, he tells us why he only baptised a hand full himself. Because he didn't want to be idolized He wants to exalt Christ not men like himself or Apollo. But it doesn't remove the obvious and articulated fact Paul was giving Jesus's Command to be baptized in water. Not for salvation but because Jesus our King said be baptised. I understand we are saved by the grace of God through faith in the gospel but No Where in the bible is anyone told to use this knowledge of our salvation to hinder the teaching of all Christ commanded Paul and the diciples to teach us how to live out our citizenship in the kingdom of heaven where Jesus our Savior and High Priest is also our King.

Of course we do not want to be blinded by religious spirits that demand more, more, more slavery from us.

We should be free to serve and express our love for Christ and God with our New Spirit and Christ in us puting our flesh to death daily. 

If it is there in scripture show me where we are taught to apply our knowledge of our Lords finished work as you are applying it. To intemidate people and hinder the teachings of puting on the Lord and walk in the new spirit he has given us.

Where are we told to take our understanding of the work of God through Christ for salvation and be blinded to The Lords Reign as King in the kingdom of God that has recieved us? 

Where does it say to take this knowledge and ignore the warnings in scripture which is our compass of navigation throu the kingdom of God in our flesh and in the kingdoms of this world?

 Please show me where you are appointed by Christ to hinder edification of the saints, correction of the saints, teaching of the saints and encouragment to the saints in Scripture?

By the Words of Christ and the diciples. Show me in scripture these dicernments of good and evil to labels heritics, the condemned, And the condeming of people who profess Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation but are not blind to the fact in mark 16 Jesus says he will save those who believe and are baptised (obviously we can't turn it negative and say it means those who arn't baptized are condemned. because he didn't say that). He said after that those who don't believe the gospel are condemned. But you can't ignore even Jesus Like Paul is conculing all those who hear the gospel and believe are baptised.

We love because he first loved us. Love is expressed through works. We do things for people we love. We do things the Lord asks of us because we love Him. You can not deny Jesus gave comands to Paul and his Diciples to teach the saved and those who recieve the kingdom of God through Christ.

I think what your doing to people that love the Lord and justifying it with your doctrin is showed to be a wrong mind set and hard heart in scripture.

 

[Guest]

17 hours ago, 4LdKHVCzRDj2 said:

Some things people say give the understanding they are encouraging and teaching faithlessness, walk in the flesh, etc. When in reality they do not, but their posts give the impression of that; especially for people who are new in the faith.

As far as I can tell;most have made their viewpoints very clear. It is important to read through the whole thread. When A person replies, they dont always restate every single thing because it has already been said many many times. It gets very tiresome and frustrating.  Sometimes people say they dont adhere to works but it is clear that they do.  There is a clear disconnect.  Read the whole thread.

I know for a fact that I NEVER stated that I dont think faith produces works. But I have always also said that we are saved by grace alone. Water baptism doesnt save us. Worshiping on a particular day doesnt save us. Jesus paid the entire price. Evidence of faith has absolutely NOTHING to do with Christ' propitiation but is a result of it being imputed on one who is reborn in the spirit

If you have a concern; show the examples. Its not profitable to make blanket statements .

[Reinitin]

1 hour ago, Yowm said:

To make accusations, implied or otherwise is a bunch of hooey unless you can produce actual quotes of what I said. 80% of what you are assuming about me above... is just that...assumptions.

When it comes to baptism, good scholars are on both sides of that issue and I don't accuse those I disagree with on that topic, and I wish you would afford me the same courtesy. I state my disapproval without accusing, it isn't that hard.

okay.. this is how i see it..

parable of the sower (four soils) it is in math 13, Mark 4, luke 8 i think. 

Seed is the Word right?

good ground is able to listen, see and recieve the mystery's? (2 account mystery is plural since you like paul he revealed the mystery of being changed in a twinkle of the eye. Mysery of Christ, mystery of the gospel and the church in the letter to Timothy mystery of Godliness.

So we cast out the Word from the Kingdom of God the mystery (hidden purposes, Will of God, Works of God through Christ, Works of Christ through man, ect)...

Virgin birth, Son of God. Some of this seed didn't fall on Good ground. There are people that twist this into a doctrin of man. Say God has no son. Wasn't a virgin birth.

We take the seed of the word and the mystery The Word of God is Christ. In the beggining was the Word and the word was with God and the Word was God.

It doesnt fall on good ground so it even gets twisted to a perverted teaching and a bible of false witness that says. In the beggining was the word and the word with God and a god. 

So we take the seed the Word of God. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

I have no idea how but this seed is not always recieved in good soil either and gets twisted into God hates Sin and sent his Son to condemn the world.

Now I take the Word of the Lord Who is King of the kingdom. baptize them that believe in the Name of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. With what type of Soil have you recieved it?

Jesus said in Mark 4 (I think could be luke) If you can not understand this parable how can you understand any thing?

He also says  

 He answered them,“Because the secrets of the kingdom of heaven have been given for you to know, but it has not been given to them. For whoever has, more will be given to him, and he will have more than enough. But whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. For this reason I speak to them in parables, because looking they do not see, and hearing they do not listen or understand.

So in many places we are told listen! See! to be able to understand but we are never told be shallow groud, dry rocky ground, or thorny ground. 

I throw the seed of The Word of God.. Jesus said "be baptised" why are you swooping down to rob the seed of the Word of God? Why are you pocking at peoples eyes to blind them and trying to stop up ears from hearing The Word of the Lord? and high fiving people that condemn and bare false witness against people that post The Word of God?

are you afraid of water?

are you afraid people will hear the word and obey?

are you afraid of having a religious Spirit? I don't get what would complell you to attack anyone posting The good seed of heaven givin to us by Christ.

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2017 by Reinitin

[4LdKHVCzRDj2]

3 hours ago, Blueyedjewel said:

If you have a concern; show the examples. Its not profitable to make blanket statements .

This is exactly what I am talking about.

[Reinitin]

1 hour ago, Yowm said:

I never ever ever said people should not be water baptized.

Our differences lie in Romans 6. You believe it is speaking of water, I believe it is speaking of our new birth where we are placed into Christ's death, burial and resurrection ...and unlike water baptism it is an operation done without human hands.

In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
(Col 2:11)
 

I don't see how anyone can get past the Lord commanded our first step in obedience is to be baptised in water. 

yeah, we are saved by grace through faith and not by works. baptisim is not a saving work but its our first step of obedience the Lord ordaned to accredit to us. 

the only motive to discourage a new believer to take the first step of obedience in faith that i can see is flesh's rebellion against the Lord's authority or Satan not wanting to loose dominion over our flesh. 

Why even preach "you do not have to take a step in faith and attack people who say the truth "the bible/ Jesus commanded water baptism to all those who believe. Peter under the power if the Holy Spirit commanded thousands. Paul obviously obeyed  after the scales fell off his eyes. obviously Paul preaching the gospel resulted in water baptism.

If you have no desire to hear it as command of the Lord and feel no need to take the first step. That is your place to rule your own heart. But to teach against something the Lord attached to the gospel as a first step in obediance. I question sound doctrin. Cause even if your right it's condeming people that want to do everthing Jesus said with joy out of love and gratitude for all he has done for us.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Reinitin

[Wayne222]

1 hour ago, Yowm said:

I never ever ever said people should not be water baptized.

Our differences lie in Romans 6. You believe it is speaking of water, I believe it is speaking of our new birth where we are placed into Christ's death, burial and resurrection ...and unlike water baptism it is an operation done without human hands.

In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
(Col 2:11)
 

John Calvin believe that Roman 6 is talking about being water baptize. Like peter said water does not cleanse but the answers of a good conscience through faith. So it's the faith behind being baptize  that brings us right with God. But if one does not obey the commandment to be baptized they have a wrong attitude. 

[Reinitin]

8 minutes ago, Yowm said:

 

I've had it with these false accusations time and time again. You are being reported and put on ignore.

well go back and read what you say and test your own spirit. Because i have gone back and seen you mock water baptism and people that say Jesus said be baptised. i would pull your own haughty words out and show them to you. But i have navigation problems on my phone and haven't figured out to pull the leven out of the bread. Because a word people use a whole heritic doctrin is being placed as an acusation on them. 

here i'll cast some more seed out what ground will it land on?

Remind them of these things, charging them before God not to fight about words; this is in no way profitable and leads to the ruin of the hearers.  Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who doesn’t need to be ashamed, correctly teaching the word of truth. But avoid irreverent, empty speech, for this will produce an even greater measure of godlessness. And their word will spread like gangrene; Hymenaeus and Philetus are among them.

What relivance is in teaching people that they do not have to Listen to the Lord and looking down on people that post a command of the Lord?