Spiritual or Physical Death

[Running Gator]

In a different thread I made this comment..

Unless the death talked about in regards to the fall was spiritual death and not physical death

To which I was asked this...

Can you show scripture that even hints at that?

In an effort to keep that thread on topic, I have started this thread to post my answer. 

Here was my reply...

In Gen 2 and 3 there are a couple passes that hint at that. 

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

They did not die physically in the day that they ate from the tree.

Gen 2:9 9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.   

along with Gen 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

If there was no death engineered into creation as some suggest, why was there a tree in the garden that would allow whomever ate its fruit to live forever? 

[Guest shiloh357]

3 hours ago, Running Gator said:

In a different thread I made this comment..

Unless the death talked about in regards to the fall was spiritual death and not physical death

To which I was asked this...

Can you show scripture that even hints at that?

In an effort to keep that thread on topic, I have started this thread to post my answer. 

Here was my reply...

In Gen 2 and 3 there are a couple passes that hint at that. 

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

They did not die physically in the day that they ate from the tree.

The process of physical death began at the moment they were separated from God, Who is the source of all life.

Quote

 

If there was no death engineered into creation as some suggest, why was there a tree in the garden that would allow whomever ate its fruit to live forever? 

 

That  assumes something about the tree of life not explicitly given in Scripture.  You could just as easily ask the question, if Adam and Eve could live forever, why eat anything at all?  

There was no death for man or beast prior to the fall, death came as a result of sin, so the purpose of the tree of life prior to the fall, had nothing to do with keeping Adam and Eve alive.   Death came when they were separated from God because of sin.  

We will partake of the tree of life in eternity after sin and death are eradicated

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. (Rev. 2:7)

In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.  Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (Rev. 22:2, 14)

[Running Gator]

30 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

The process of physical death began at the moment they were separated from God, Who is the source of all life.

But this is not what God said, He said they would surely die on the day they ate the fruit.  But we know that did not happen.  It is possible that your view is correct, but I was asked to provide scripture that hinted that the death was spiritual and not physical.  This verse does that.  

Quote

That  assumes something about the tree of life not explicitly given in Scripture.  You could just as easily ask the question, if Adam and Eve could live forever, why eat anything at all?  

I have been asked that before, and I do not belive there is a scriptural answer. Perhaps eating was done for the sheer enjoyment of the taste of the food.   Either way this passage again hints at the idea of a spiritual death.  

I realize you do not view it that way, but I am not here to change your mind, just to provide what I was asked to. 

[Guest shiloh357]

23 minutes ago, Running Gator said:

But this is not what God said, He said they would surely die on the day they ate the fruit.  But we know that did not happen.  It is possible that your view is correct, but I was asked to provide scripture that hinted that the death was spiritual and not physical.  This verse does that.  

In the original Hebrew it reads, "dying you shall die."   It speaks to death as both immediate and physical.  Furthermore, Gods' final pronouncement of the curse states, "dust you are and to dust you shall return."   They died spiritually the moment they were separated from God.  It doesn't specify that they would cease to exist physically, but the physical death process began at that moment.
 

Quote

 

I have been asked that before, and I do not belive there is a scriptural answer. Perhaps eating was done for the sheer enjoyment of the taste of the food.   Either way this passage again hints at the idea of a spiritual death.  

I realize you do not view it that way, but I am not here to change your mind, just to provide what I was asked to. 

 

What is so hard about understanding that physical death and spiritual death are direct consequences of the fall?

[missmuffet]

Question: "How is physical death related to spiritual death?"

Answer: The Bible has a great deal to say about death and, more importantly, what happens after death. Physical death and spiritual death are both a separation of one thing from another. Physical death is the separation of the soul from the body, and spiritual death is the separation of the soul from God. When understood in that way, the two concepts are very closely related, and both physical death and spiritual death are reflected in the very first references to death.

In the creation account (Genesis 1–2), we read how God created a variety of living beings. These animals had life, an inward element that gave movement and energy to their physical bodies. Scientists are still at a loss to explain what truly causes life, but the Bible is clear that God gives life to all things (Genesis 1:11-28; 1 Timothy 6:13). The life that God gave to mankind was different from that which He gave to animals. In Genesis 2:7, we are told that God “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.” Whereas animals have a purely physical life, humans have both a physical and a spiritual element of life, and the death we experience likewise has both a physical and a spiritual element.

According to Genesis 2:17, God told Adam that, if he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, he would “surely die.” Some skeptics have tried to use this verse to show an inconsistency in the Bible, because Adam and Eve did not die the very day they ate of that fruit. However, there are different types of life, and there are different types of death. A person can be physically alive and spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1, 5) and vice versa (Matthew 22:32). When they sinned (Genesis 3:7), Adam and Eve immediately lost their spiritual life, they become “dead” to godliness, they forfeited Eden, and they came under God’s judgment (eternal death). Their shame triggered a correlating action, as they hid from God (Genesis 3:8)—their internal separation from God manifest itself in an external separation from Him.

In addition to the immediate spiritual death they experienced, they also began the process of physical death, even though it took many years for death to have its full effect. This can be better understood with the example of a flower. When you see a flower growing in a garden, you know it is alive, because it is connected to the stem and the roots, and is receiving nourishment from the ground. When you separate the flower from its life source, it still has the appearance of life, and can maintain that appearance for several days, depending on the conditions. Regardless of the care it is given, though, it is already dying, and that process cannot be reversed. The same is true for mankind.

The physical death that entered into the world with Adam's sin (Romans 5:12) affected all living things. It is difficult for us to conceive of a world without death, but that is what Scripture teaches was the condition before the Fall. All living things began the process of dying when sin entered the world. When physical death occurs, there is a definite separation of the life force from the body. When that separation occurs, there is nothing man can do to reverse it (even the medical community acknowledges the difference between a “clinical death” and a “biological death”). The wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23), and death comes upon all men because all have sinned. Everyone is subject to physical death because of the presence of sin in this world, as well as their own personal sins. From a human perspective, physical death seems to be the ultimate punishment, but the Bible teaches there are deeper meanings of death to be considered.

The life that God breathed into Adam (Genesis 2:7) was more than just animal life; it was the breath of God, resulting in a being with a soul. Adam was created spiritually alive, connected to God in a special way. He enjoyed a relationship with God, but when he sinned, that relationship was broken. Spiritual death has implications both before and after physical death. Though Adam was still physically alive (but beginning the dying process), he became spiritually dead, separated from relationship with God. In this present life on earth, the effect of spiritual death is the loss of God's favor as well as the knowledge of and desire for God. Scripture is clear that everyone begins life “dead in trespasses and sins” (Ephesians 2:1-5), resulting in a life focused on our sinful desires. Jesus taught that the remedy for spiritual death is a spiritual rebirth (John 3:3-5) through faith in Him. This rebirth is a re-connection to the source of life, which Jesus pictured in John 15:1-6. He is the vine, and we are the branches. Without being connected to Him, we have no life in us, but when we have Jesus, we have real life (1 John 5:11-12).

For those who refuse to accept God's salvation, physical death and spiritual death culminate in the “second death” (Revelation 20:14). This eternal death is not annihilation, as some have taught, but is a conscious, eternal punishment for sins in the lake of fire, described as being separated from the presence of the Lord (2 Thessalonians 1:9). Jesus also spoke of this eternal separation from God in Matthew 25:41 and identified the conscious torment of individuals in the story of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31). God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9), so they do not have to remain spiritually dead. To repent means to turn away from sin, and includes confessing sin to God with sorrow for violating His holiness. Those who have received God's salvation have turned from death to life (1 John 3:14), and the second death has no power over them (Revelation 20:6).

https://www.gotquestions.org/physical-death.html

[Running Gator]

8 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

 

What is so hard about understanding that physical death and spiritual death are direct consequences of the fall?

I do understand why people view it that way, I am just not sure it is the correct view.

[other one]

10 hours ago, Running Gator said:

I do understand why people view it that way, I am just not sure it is the correct view.

What is spiritual death....    All I see is that they were separated from God spiritually and God kicked them out of the Garden and seems to have removed himself from them physically as well.

But if God intended us to judge angels in the end, he intended for them to eat of the tree from the very beginning.

[Guest shiloh357]

15 hours ago, Running Gator said:

I do understand why people view it that way, I am just not sure it is the correct view.

Why is that?   Do you have different, biblical explanation for where physical death comes from?   The Bible includes physical death in the curse: "dust you and to dust you shall return." 

[Marilyn C]

On ‎5‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 11:11 PM, Running Gator said:

In a different thread I made this comment..

Unless the death talked about in regards to the fall was spiritual death and not physical death

To which I was asked this...

Can you show scripture that even hints at that?

In an effort to keep that thread on topic, I have started this thread to post my answer. 

Here was my reply...

In Gen 2 and 3 there are a couple passes that hint at that. 

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

They did not die physically in the day that they ate from the tree.

Gen 2:9 9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.   

along with Gen 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

If there was no death engineered into creation as some suggest, why was there a tree in the garden that would allow whomever ate its fruit to live forever? 

Hi Running Gator,

As to `death,` God`s word tells us - `The sting of death is sin...` (1 Cor. 15: 56)

And as to why there was a tree which had fruit that enabled one to live forever - ` Jesus said, " I am the way, the truth and the life...' (John 14: 6) The `tree of life` is a pictorial representation of receiving life (eternal) from God. Trees do not give `eternal life` even in the garden. That life is from God only.

regards, Marilyn.

[Running Gator]

On 9/5/2017 at 11:47 PM, other one said:

What is spiritual death....    All I see is that they were separated from God spiritually and God kicked them out of the Garden and seems to have removed himself from them physically as well.

But if God intended us to judge angels in the end, he intended for them to eat of the tree from the very beginning.

Spiritual death is separation from God.   Death in the bible is always about separation.  Physical death is the separation of the body and the soul, spiritual death is the separation of the soul from God.   Only one of those things happened on the day that Adam and Eve ate the fruit.

If they were made immortal, why did they need to eat from a tree that made them live forever?