Spiritual or Physical Death

[Guest shiloh357]

4 minutes ago, other one said:

when did God decide for mankind to judge angels?

Before the foundations of the earth.

[other one]

2 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Before the foundations of the earth.

then it seems obvious that he would want us to have the knowledge to do so and we received that knowledge from Adam and Eve eating of the fruit.     So I think I can safely say that he intended for them to eat of the fruit.    And even better let Satan be behind that happening.

Personally I don't have any problem with that at all.  

[Guest shiloh357]

1 minute ago, other one said:

then it seems obvious that he would want us to have the knowledge to do so and we received that knowledge from Adam and Eve eating of the fruit.    

LOL, that's not really true.   First of all we don't judge angels and we will not judge angels until we are in our sinless, glorified bodies and the knowledge we have at that point, will not have been derived from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.    We will be nothing like we are now.  

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So I think I can safely say that he intended for them to eat of the fruit.

God told Adam NOT to eat of the fruit because Adam would die spiritually and physically from doing so.   Adam didn't gain any knowledge about judging angels, he gained a body that was prone to sickness, disease, a mind that was frail and could end up succumbing to all kinds of mental illnesses.   Nothing about the results of eating from that tree produced anything good.  Nothing good has come from it.

And why would God forbid eating from the tree, if He intended Adam to eat from it?   Do  you even think about what you say before you say it?   Why would God want the world to be swallowed up in sin?

 

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  And even better let Satan be behind that happening.

Satan isn't behind it.  The Bible faults Adam not Satan (Rom. 5:12-21)

 

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Personally I don't have any problem with that at all.  

That's because you are not operating from a place of sound doctrine and good theology.

[other one]

Paul disagrees with you about judging angels, and I disagree that we didn't need the knowledge to get to the point that we are.

God could have just squished the dark side like a bug from my view point but he must have some reason to do the things he's done setting the whole global history up.  We'll see who's right in the end.

[Guest shiloh357]

2 minutes ago, other one said:

Paul disagrees with you about judging angels,

No disagreement with Paul.  Paul said we will judge angels.  We are not judging angels now.  No one believes we are to judge angels at this time.  That is for the future.

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and I disagree that we didn't need the knowledge to get to the point that we are.

Oh eating the tree of the knowledge of good and evil definitely got us to the point we are now:  Outright rebellion against, God, lovers of self, murderous, thieves, adulterer, liars, unrepentant, haters of God, and don't forget about abortion, prostitution, child abuse/molestation, fornication, idolatry, paganism, Atheism, false religions, greed, poverty, oppression, terrorism, drunkenness, pornography, drug abuse... Yes, eating the tree of the knowledge of good and evil when God said not to, got us right where we are now. 

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God could have just squished the dark side like a bug from my view point but he must have some reason to do the things he's done setting the whole global history up.

God allows evil to exist, but you are championing the idea that God is responsible for sin and death.   You are making God guilty of man's fall, by intending man to fall, ordaining it.    No one with any amount of sound doctrine would believe such garbage.   You subscribe to a warped, false theology that you cannot build with a proper handling of God's word.

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We'll see who's right in the end.

I have already read the end of the book.   I know how it will end and who is right.   I am the only one who is making an appeal to Scripture and I will simply take my stand on what the Bible says about the end.

[Marilyn C]

21 hours ago, other one said:

If Jesus had not died on the cross there would have been no forgiveness... period.

Hi Bro other one,

Yes the wonderful blood of Jesus that washes us clean and covers our sins.

So we agree that through the blood of Jesus we have forgiveness of sin. So....where do you receive your eternal life - from a tree? or from Jesus?

regards, Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

20 hours ago, Running Gator said:

So, you are saying the Tree of Life and the Cherubim and the flaming sword are all just symbolic and were not real?

Hi Running Gator,

I said it was a pictorial representation - Christ is the `tree of Life` the Cherubim are the ones who cover, ( as on the Ark) and the flaming sword, represents the Holy Spirit who `guards the way` (Gen. 3: 24) to the `tree of life,` the Lord.

regards, Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

15 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Yes, but that is the effect it would have on Adam in his fallen state.  That doesn't speak to the purpose of the tree for Adam in his unfallen state.   Adam was immortal and unable to die physically prior to the fall, as God did not engineer death into creation.   So the purpose of the tree for Adam in his unfallen state must have been different.

Hi Shiloh,

I don`t believe Adam was immortal. He was made from the dust of the earth.

`The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second man is the Lord from heaven.` (1 Cor. 15: 47)

Thus the need to `eat of the tree of life,` meaning to be in constant communion with the Lord, (symbolised by the tree of life).

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

5 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

No, the tree is not a metaphor.   There is no metaphorical textual indicators anywhere in the text.  

 

Hi again Shiloh,

Actually there are `metaphorical indicators` in Gen. 3 : 24.

`So He (God) drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.` (Gen. 3: 24)

So ...The Tree of Life -  Do you receive eternal life from a tree?

cherubim - We are told that they cover the ark, the presence of God, Christ.

a flaming sword that can turn every way to guard  - Sounds very `mystical` bro. when actually we know that God`s `sword` is a symbol of His word by the Holy Spirit. (Heb. 4: 12)

regards, Marilyn.

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, Marilyn C said:

Hi again Shiloh,

Actually there are `metaphorical indicators` in Gen. 3 : 24.

`So He (God) drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.` (Gen. 3: 24)

So ...The Tree of Life -  Do you receive eternal life from a tree?

cherubim - We are told that they cover the ark, the presence of God, Christ.

a flaming sword that can turn every way to guard  - Sounds very `mystical` bro. when actually we know that God`s `sword` is a symbol of His word by the Holy Spirit. (Heb. 4: 12)

regards, Marilyn.

Nothing metaphorical at all.  Sorry, but you need to produce metaphorical textual indicators.   This is a historical narrative, not a parable, not an allegory, there is no symbolism indicated at all.  You cannot just apply values to a text willy nilly.