The churches are in dire need of understanding this!

[ZacharyB]

 

Now, as we are entering into the end times, the time is short indeed for believers

to become true believers … by starting to obey Jesus’ commandments!

 

Please also see my first thread, “Have you been deceived by Satan through your church?”

 

The Holy Spirit, God’s angels, and Satan’s angels (demons) can all speak to us (spiritually),

i.e. they can place thoughts into our minds (but demons cannot read our thoughts).

The Holy Spirit will dwell INSIDE the true (obedient) believer …

but this thread is not really about this point, so I will only list some references:

John 14:15-24, John 15:1-10, Acts 5:32, 2 Cor 13:5, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16.

Now, on to the purpose of the thread: Obedience results in the believer remaining “in Christ”.

 

John 14 (NLT, 2007)

¹⁵ If you love me, obey my commandments.

¹⁶ And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, who will never leave you.

¹⁷ He is the Holy Spirit who leads into all truth ... you know him,

because he lives with you now and later will be in you.

²⁰ … you will know that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

²¹ Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me.

And because they love me, my Father will love them.

And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.

²³ All who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them,

and we will come and make our home with each of them.

²⁴ Anyone who doesn’t love me will not obey me.

Jesus says believers who love Him and obey His commandments – are “in me” (v.20).

This is what being “in Christ” is all about.

 

1 John 2:3-5 (NLT, 2007)

³ And we can be sure that we know him, if we obey his commandments.

⁴ If someone claims, “I know God,” but doesn’t obey God’s commandments,

that person is a liar and is not living in the truth.

⁵ But those who obey God’s word truly show how completely they love him.

That is how we know we are living in him.

John says believers who know and love Jesus and obey His commandments – are “in him” (v.5).

This is what being “in Christ” is all about.

 

I have summarized Jesus’ warnings in John 15 …

John 15 (NLT, 2007)

¹ I (Jesus) am the true grapevine, and my Father is the gardener.

² He (Father God) cuts off every branch of mine that doesn’t produce fruit …

⁴ Remain in me, and I will remain in you. For a branch cannot produce fruit if it

is severed from the vine, and you cannot be fruitful unless you remain in me.

⁵ Yes, I am the vine; you are the branches.

Those who remain in me, and I in them, will produce much fruit.

⁶ Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers.

Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned.

⁸ When you produce much fruit, you are my true disciples.

⁹ Remain in my love.

¹⁰ When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love,

just as I obey my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.

Please note that “every branch of mine” (v.2), and “you” (v.5), refer to believers in Jesus.

Jesus says those who obey His commandments “remain in my love” (v.10).

This is what being “in Christ” is all about.

And He says those who “do not remain in me” are thrown away and burned (v.6).

So, remaining in Jesus (through loving and obeying Him) is mandatory for final salvation!

“To remain in Christ means to love him, to obey him, to pray to him, to worship him.

In other words, to remain in Christ means to be joined to him spiritually, just as a branch

is joined to a vine. If we remain joined to Christ in this way, we will be like living branches.

And just as the sap of the vine flows into the branches and gives them life, so will Christ’s

Spirit flow into us and give us spiritual life. In order to bear fruit, we must remain in Christ.

If we do not remain in Christ, we shall not bear fruit. Not only that, we shall wither and die (v.6).

… There is only one thing that can separate us from Christ: sin. Sin is like a disease that

eats at the base of the branch. We will surely lose our union with Christ, if any known sin

remains in our lives for which we have not repented. … We can say that in our Christian

lives two main things are necessary: first, Christ through the Holy Spirit, must remain in us;

and second, Christ’s words, that is the words of the Bible, must remain in our hearts. …

In the Christian life, we always find two things appearing together: promises and conditions.

If we fulfill the condition, God will fulfill His promise. God has never given a promise without

also stating a condition along with the promise … To remain in Christ’s love (v.9,10) is the

same as to remain in Christ. … To remain in Christ’s love, we must love him. To love him,

we must obey him (see John 14:15).  As long as we continue to obey Christ,

we shall remain in his love, and he and the Father will abide in us (see John 14:21).”

… Dr. Thomas Hale, medical missionary (The Applied New Testament Commentary,1996)

 

All through the Epistles, people in the churches are condemned …

if they are involved in habitual sin (note: they have not remained “in Christ”).

“There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,

who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ has made me free from

the law of sin and death.” (Romans 8:1-2, NKJV)

Those who have remained “in Christ” are free from the law of sin and death …

because they are continually having their sins washed away through repentance!

“But remember, even though we believers have escaped condemnation, sin still remains

in our lives. Therefore, we are still guilty of sin and deserving of punishment. But if we repent

of our sins, God will not count our sins against us; He will not judge us guilty (see 1 John 1:9).”

… Dr. Thomas Hale (The Applied New Testament Commentary,1996)

 

“(the uncondemned) no longer follow our sinful nature, but instead follow the Spirit.

… So letting your sinful nature control your mind leads to (eternal) death. But,

letting the Spirit control your mind leads to life and peace.” (Romans 8:4-6, NLT)

“We cannot live according to the sinful nature and according to the Spirit at the same time;

we must live according to either one or the other (see Galatians 5, etc.).”

… Dr. Thomas Hale (The Applied New Testament Commentary,1996)

 

“For if you live by its (the flesh’s) dictates (desires), you will die (eternally).  But if through

the power of the Spirit you put to death the deeds of your sinful nature, you will live (eternally).

For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God.” (Romans 8:13-14, NLT)

[Justin Adams]

So. What of those that teach it is OK to profane God's Sabbath? The RCC and Constantine changed it because Jews (and Israelis) were not in favor and could be summarily excluded from all political considerations.
And Ishtar?? "Easter" with bunnies and eggs and fertility seems far removed from Passover. Plus the other "detestable things" that the Lord God abhors? The Pagan calendar, child sacrifice in the Fires of Moloch. And the list goes on and on sadly.

[OldCoot]

I would agree that there has been considerable corruption of ideas, but one salient fact still remains..... Yeshua Himself stated that the entire Torah (Law) can be summed up in... 1) Love the Lord with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength, and 2) Love your neighbor as yourself.

That may sound very simplistic, but even one of the most venerated sages of Jewish thought, Hillel, obviously not a Christian, when asked by a student to summarize the Torah while standing on one foot, stated the very same thing as Yeshua.

All of the commandments hang on the two expressed by Yeshua. I dearly love the Torah, for the standards of God it reveals, the teaching it provides, and how it points to the Messiah.  But I have enough trouble staying up with what Yeshua said regarding this to get all caught up in details, which puts one at risk of adhering to a works righteousness idea. The condition of the heart is paramount.

Edited September 24, 2017 by OldCoot

[ZacharyB]

21 hours ago, OldCoot said:

I would agree that there has been considerable corruption of ideas, but one salient fact still remains.....

Yeshua Himself stated that the entire Torah (Law) can be summed up in...

1) Love the Lord with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength, and 2) Love your neighbor as yourself.

Yes, re: (1) ... does anyone who loves Jesus NOT obey His commandments?

The NT teaches us that obedience is part of truly believing.

Saving faith = belief, faith, trust, obedience.

Also, 15 NT verses teach us that one's faith must endure until the end of life

for him/her to have saving faith!

Don't fall away during the up-coming persecution of Christians.

Don't submit to taking the dreaded mark of the beast.

Both of these are signs of the "cowardly" in Revelation 21:8.

Here Jesus says cowards inherit the lake of fire!

[OldCoot]

1 hour ago, ZacharyB said:

Yes, re: (1) ... does anyone who loves Jesus NOT obey His commandments?

The NT teaches us that obedience is part of truly believing.

Saving faith = belief, faith, trust, obedience.

Also, 15 NT verses teach us that one's faith must endure until the end of life

for him/her to have saving faith!

Don't fall away during the up-coming persecution of Christians.

Don't submit to taking the dreaded mark of the beast.

Both of these are signs of the "cowardly" in Revelation 21:8.

Here Jesus says cowards inherit the lake of fire!

I have found (not my own original idea) that the concept of "pitching our tent" with the Lord and learning how He "pitches His tent with us" pretty well exhibits the proper relationship.  We dwell with Him and will emulate Yeshua in word, thought, and deed both to others and to the Father.  And that close dwelling, we will learn who He is.  A much more effective idea than a "do this" or "don't do that" or "commandment adherence" approach which seems limited in scope.  It expresses what a saving faith truly is about.  And everything else fits right into place when we pitch our tent with YHWH, the Father, and He pitches His tent with us.  

A much simpler yet more effective way to view these things.   And very few people in the churches actually "pitch their tent" with the Lord and allow Him to "pitch His tent" with them and learn what that all means.  The religious leaders Yeshua confronted had the same problem.  They were staunch about the observance of things, they were "religious", but they would not "pitch their tent" with the Lord or allow Him to "pitch His tent" with them.   There was no relationship at the heart level.  None sought to closely dwell with the Lord, what pitching one's tent implies.

In Revelation 3:20 expresses a portion of this same "pitching tents" and dwelling idea by Yeshua Himself. 

[angels4u]

On 9/24/2017 at 5:15 PM, OldCoot said:

I would agree that there has been considerable corruption of ideas, but one salient fact still remains..... Yeshua Himself stated that the entire Torah (Law) can be summed up in... 1) Love the Lord with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength, and 2) Love your neighbor as yourself.

That may sound very simplistic, but even one of the most venerated sages of Jewish thought, Hillel, obviously not a Christian, when asked by a student to summarize the Torah while standing on one foot, stated the very same thing as Yeshua.

All of the commandments hang on the two expressed by Yeshua. I dearly love the Torah, for the standards of God it reveals, the teaching it provides, and how it points to the Messiah.  But I have enough trouble staying up with what Yeshua said regarding this to get all caught up in details, which puts one at risk of adhering to a works righteousness idea. The condition of the heart is paramount.

Quote

Love your neighbor as yourself.

Amen, so can you please do me a favor because you love your neighbor?

I find it very difficult to look at your avatar, would you mind changing it in something not so flashy?

Thanks

God Bless,Angels

[OldCoot]

1 hour ago, angels4u said:

Amen, so can you please do me a favor because you love your neighbor?

I find it very difficult to look at your avatar, would you mind changing it in something not so flashy?

Thanks

God Bless,Angels

LOL!  Ok, just for you!  You talked me into it.  

[appy]

On 9/25/2017 at 6:18 PM, angels4u said:

Amen, so can you please do me a favor because you love your neighbor?

I find it very difficult to look at your avatar, would you mind changing it in something not so flashy?

Thanks

God Bless,Angels

 

On 9/25/2017 at 7:37 PM, OldCoot said:

LOL!  Ok, just for you!  You talked me into it.  

I thank you for changing it