Was Satan's fall part of God's plan?

[enoob57]

well maybe they need to go ask Alice when she's ten feet tall   

[ytLiJC]

9 hours ago, enoob57 said:

The Word of God leads us in the contextual sense and purpose it was first written ... the seal of the end of Revelation is the seal of The Written Word of God... thus God says

 

let's not forget that the living Word of God, which was first, is not written, but rather verbal; Scripture is a Word of God recorded in written form - His Prophets first heard His Word and only then wrote it

the "seals" in Revelation are the inabilities to understand the truth of the One Who is really the true Lord God; when those "seals" are unsealed in some person, then he or she begins to understand His truth even if they don't read Scripture

 

9 hours ago, enoob57 said:

2 Timothy 3:15 (KJV)

[15] And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

 

why not: "which can (in singular) make you now wise..."?! - i receive from Him this translation as more correct -you know, many versions of the Bible, many different translations - why?!, because every translator had a different viewpoint on scripture; and why?!, because unfortunately there had been cleavages between many sects instead of overall consensus - here is for example how you are hasty to impose your understanding instead of reasoning with me about these things so that we may reach a perfectly true consensus

 

9 hours ago, enoob57 said:

[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

yes, but does everyone who reads Scripture understand it correctly?!

2 Peter 3:15-16 (NIV) "Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.  He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."

 

9 hours ago, enoob57 said:

I suggest again that you trust only in the written Scriptures to lead you to God Himself for it 'IS' His Word that forms the faith that is spoken of in Romans 1:17

 

let's say some people don't need to read Scripture, because they know what is written/explained in it and what is not written/explained there - can you believe me that i read only the whole New Testament twice, 15-16 years ago, and never read the whole old testament, from the beginning to its end?!, but, as you can see, (i can say without boasting about anything of myself) this doesn't prevent me from understanding the truth of God and witnessing to it more perfectly than millions of other worshipers in this world - we can even explain biblical passages without ever reading them before the relevant current moment

 

9 hours ago, enoob57 said:

Romans 10:17 (KJV)

[17] So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Love, Steven

 

yes, there is speech, first of all, about hearing of His "voice", not reading of Scripture - because what's the benefit of reading Scripture without understanding it correctly, especially if we understand it wrong and distort/twist it?! - that is why hearing is more important then reading, and reading is nothing useful without hearing the proper understanding of what we read

Blessings

Edited December 31, 2017 by ytLiJC

[ytLiJC]

11 hours ago, brakelite said:

If you are suggesting that you have been made competent by God and thus a prophet....let me inform you that no "new"revelation EVER contradicts former revelations of truth. Mormonism, which seems to have shades of what you are suggesting.... believe that truth can change...that each new "prophet" or leader of the Mormon church can teach whatever he likes and it becomes truth...invalidating anything previous that has been put forth as "truth". Including scripture. At the risk of offending you...you are NOT a prophet ...what you are proposing contradicts scripture and is simply made up nonsense.

 

if this is addressed to me, know that i don't try to contradict scripture at all - i don't find any contradiction in my testimony (including in comparison with what is written in Scripture) - if you find any, i am available to read/listen to you and explain

of course i say all this without thinking that there are not millions of wiser and much wiser human beings than me; also, i don't think i am wise...

Blessings

[enoob57]

43 minutes ago, ytLiJC said:

 

let's not forget that the living Word of God, which was first, is not written, but rather verbal; Scripture is a Word of God recorded in written form - His Prophets first heard His Word and only then wrote it

the "seals" in Revelation are the inabilities to understand the truth of the One Who is really the true Lord God; when those "seals" are unsealed in some person, then he or she begins to understand His truth even if they don't read Scripture

 

 

why not: "which can (in singular) make you now wise..."?! - i receive from Him this translation as more correct -you know, many versions of the Bible, many different translations - why?!, because every translator had a different viewpoint on scripture; and why?!, because unfortunately there had been cleavages between many sects instead of overall consensus - here is for example how you are hasty to impose your understanding instead of reasoning with me about these things so that we may reach a perfectly true consensus

 

 

yes, but does everyone who reads Scripture understand it correctly?!

2 Peter 3:15-16 (NIV) "Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.  He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."

 

 

let's say some people don't need to read Scripture, because they know what is written/explained in it and what is not written/explained there - can you believe me that i read only the whole New Testament twice, 15-16 years ago, and never read the whole old testament, from the beginning to its end?!, but, as you can see, (i can say without boasting about anything of myself) this doesn't prevent me from understanding the truth of God and witnessing to it more perfectly than millions of other worshipers in this world - we can even explain biblical passages without ever reading them before the relevant current moment

 

 

yes, there is speech, first of all, about hearing of His "voice", not reading of Scripture - because what's the benefit of reading Scripture without understanding it correctly, especially if we understand it wrong and distort/twist it?! - that is why hearing is more important then reading, and reading is nothing useful without hearing the proper understanding of what we read

Blessings

this is of a gnostic spirit and not of the Spirit of God....

[brakelite]

13 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

..bunny wabbits cannot read the OP..

If they could they would understand it better than me.....

[ytLiJC]

4 hours ago, enoob57 said:

this is of a gnostic spirit and not of the Spirit of God....

 

i believe you are a man with qualities to serve God, but, even if i am nothing in any field/area of human activity, in word of God, thank God, i am not a layman

what does "gnostic" mean?!, the Bible is also full of many spiritual things that also have not been perceptible to most people, including to most of the religious worshipers, and therefore they haven't understood/known them

the main difference between the spiritual knowledge coming from the true God and the spiritual knowledge coming from the world is that the true One doesn't profess non-salvation and destruction for humans/souls, while the wicked one may profess all kinds of things except the manifestation of pure and perfect love for humans/souls to overall salvation and life's provision (even if there is love in his testimony, it is hypocritical); and this is because the difference is, first of all, in the means - the means of the "Light" are entirely good, while the means of the "darkness" are bad, simply because such is their nature; for example, the "darkness" can't be sincerely good, which is why it is passing (including because there is self-destructiveness deep in its nature, for the true "Light" cannot support its activity, and the abundance of its splendor is doomed to die, because it is dependent on parasitism upon the creation of the true God), while the true "Light" is not capable of doing evil, which doesn't mean there is no danger of eternal punishment for (certain) sinners

if we even talk about spirituality when it comes to faith/religion, then why must we deceive each other that the matter at hand in Scripture is other than spiritual?! - who is not aware that scripture is spiritual and about spiritual things?!

1 Corinthians 2:12-14 (AKJV) "we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Ghost teaches; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

if sin has been quite obvious to all humans, then would all of them be aware of the otherwise imperceptible danger and protect themselves from it?!, but unfortunately we can still see billions of victims/sufferers, including millions or maybe billions of religious worshipers, who don't even know where their problems have come from, even if they think and even claim they know the origin of the(ir) problems - that is also why there has not been a complete effective resolution to so many problems...

so it is evident that we have to be more careful, accurate, precise and thorough in the practice of faith...

Blessings

Edited January 1, 2018 by ytLiJC

[BeyondET]

Well from what happened it is apparent Angels have free will to choose as well, for if they didn't satan would not have rebelled. he chose to disagree.

[ScottA]

On 9/29/2017 at 1:17 AM, spiderman1917 said:

I can't tell you how many times I've heard Christians tell me that the fall of Satan was never part of God's plan...

That simply doesn't make sense. It is biblical that God knows what happens in the future. 

God knows before he makes an angel if it's going to rebel against him.

God knows before he makes an angel if it's going to be faithful to him.

He could just choose not to make the angels that will rebel and only make the angels that will be faithful to him.

The only other conclusion is that Satan's rebellion and fall was part of God's plan...

The question is why?

Perhaps it glorifies God more to have an enemy to triumph over ?

 

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things.’

The reason is in the creation story: 

Genesis 2:18

And the Lord God said, “It is not good that man should be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.”

 

"Man" in this use means: "God", the quintessential Male. Which we know from Christ's explanation of the bride and Groom, and Paul's revealing the mystery of the church. History is His story.

[brakelite]

On 1/4/2018 at 1:53 PM, Cletus said:

if satans fall was apart of Gods plan then so was Jesus on the cross.  Which means The One who knew no sin.... became sin.  that too was apart of the plan. 

I have always thought His plan was to eat the fruit of the tree of life first... and then the tree of knowledge.  Can i prove that thru scripture?  no.  did God show this to me?  no.  am i going to try and convince anyone they should believe this too?  no.  but the fact remains the tree was there.  why did God make it and see fit to name the tree of Life in genesis?  other than an angel and a flaming sword to keep man away, this tree served no point.  what was the plan there? 

 

 

 

The establishment of two trees was to give Adam and Eve a choice. God did not want a people that could not choose to love and obey. The choice wasn't about eating, it was about trust and authority. The tree of life in the garden of Eden was to be eaten from as a sign of dependance and recognition of God for the life A&E had. So long as they ate from that tree alone, they were demonstrating their trust and their willingness to obey. So long as they continued in that same faithfulness, and taught their children the same, all mankind would have been in a far far better place today than it is.

However, as we all know, they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. They chose to believe the devil, and distrust God. They believed the devil when he inferred that God was holding something back from A&E that was to their benefit. He said they also could be gods, thus by forbidding them to eat of the tree, the true God didn't want any competition. All lies as we know...or do we? Many today still believe God is a God of selfish tyranny not wanting what is best for us. 

As it turned out, the lie that A&E would not die, was proved false. And their conditional immortality (conditional on eating of the tree of life) was removed from their grasp as angels guarded access, "unless sinners lived forever".