False doctrine

[Guest shiloh357]

8 minutes ago, Teditis said:

I don't think that the "early church fathers" hated Jews... but they did see the way that the Jews persecuted the early church

and they also put the bulk of the blame on the "Jews" for the death of Jesus. The Apostles saw that many of the older Jewish

Holy Days were a shadow of Jesus and therefore were okay with moving beyond those things as God dictated. So, as Jesus rose

on Sunday... it was acceptable to honor that day and Passover took a "back-seat" to the Pascal holy day(s). This stuff was much

discussed in early Christian history and is documented... we can read about the change in zeitgeist. Also, they witnessed the end

of the Jewish age, as predicted in Scripture, and decided to move forward from that into a new Covenant period.

Christians adopted new Holy Days and explained their meanings as time went on... there is nothing "false" about those newer ways.

 

 

You should read John Chrysostom's 8 homilies against the Jews.   He said that he hated the Jews and that it was duty of all Christians to hate the Jews.   http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/index.htm#Chrysostom_Against_the_Jews

"The Jews sacrifice their children to Satan… They are worse than wild beasts. The synagogue is a brothel, a den of scoundrels, the temple of demons devoted to idolatrous cults, a criminal assembly of Jews, a place of meeting for the assassins of Christ, a house of ill fame, a dwelling of iniquity, a gulf and abyss of perdition… The synagogue is a curse. Obstinate in her error, she refuses to see or hear; she has deliberately perverted her judgment; she has extinguished within herself the light of the Holy Spirit…

[The Jews] have fallen into a condition lower than the vilest animals. Debauchery and drunkenness have brought them to the level of the lusty goat and the pig. They know only one thing: to satisfy their stomachs, to get drunk, to kill and beat each other up like stage villains and coachmen… I hate the Jews, because they violate the Law. I hate the Synagogue because it hates the Law and the Prophets. It is the duty of all Christians to hate the Jews." http://alphahistory.com/holocaust/chrysostom-hate-the-jews-400/

[Guest Teditis]

25 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

You should read John Chrysostom's 8 homilies against the Jews.   He said that he hated the Jews and that it was duty of all Christians to hate the Jews.   http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/index.htm#Chrysostom_Against_the_Jews

"The Jews sacrifice their children to Satan… They are worse than wild beasts. The synagogue is a brothel, a den of scoundrels, the temple of demons devoted to idolatrous cults, a criminal assembly of Jews, a place of meeting for the assassins of Christ, a house of ill fame, a dwelling of iniquity, a gulf and abyss of perdition… The synagogue is a curse. Obstinate in her error, she refuses to see or hear; she has deliberately perverted her judgment; she has extinguished within herself the light of the Holy Spirit…

[The Jews] have fallen into a condition lower than the vilest animals. Debauchery and drunkenness have brought them to the level of the lusty goat and the pig. They know only one thing: to satisfy their stomachs, to get drunk, to kill and beat each other up like stage villains and coachmen… I hate the Jews, because they violate the Law. I hate the Synagogue because it hates the Law and the Prophets. It is the duty of all Christians to hate the Jews." http://alphahistory.com/holocaust/chrysostom-hate-the-jews-400/

Yeah, I'm aware that there was some hatred of Jews in the early church... John Chrysostom was the late 300's (if I remember rightly)... that's not the period that I was referring to as "early church" fathers. I was referring to the groups that directly followed the Apostles and were looking to God for direction with the growth of the Church at-large without any Apostles to guide them. They had questions early on about which day to worship on and what to do about the Jewish Holy Days with regard to the great influx of Gentiles entering the Faith. Eusebius reports that they tended to move away from the Jewish days of worship because they were shadow-types of Christ and that the Church was to keep people's view on Christ alone. He (Eusebius) wrote extensively about it all, and documented the mindset of the early Bishops through their writings on such subjects. My point was that the changes were well thought out (and prayed over)... not spurious changes and "Pagan" in origin as some are purporting.

Chrysostom was later in my thinking and closer to the time-period of Constantine where the Church took on a larger role of Politics within it's purview... a bad time altogether. The rise of the RCC. At that time, the roles had been reversed and Christian's started persecuting Jews for political reasons... and outright bigotry, and repaying old debts.

[Justin Adams]

7 minutes ago, Teditis said:

They had questions early on about which day to worship on and what to do about the Jewish Holy Days with regard to the great influx of Gentiles entering the Faith. Eusebius reports that they tended to move away from the Jewish days of worship because they were shadow-types of Christ and that the Church was to keep people's view on Christ alone.

That is so very interesting. I will have to read more of that. I have only read a little of Eusebius.

I am thinking it has somehow gone and full circle as the times "they are a-changing". The feast days seem to be even more important today and prophetic symbolism has taken on a new and more relevant meaning. I attempt to watch the middle east and especially Israel very closely because I think whatever happens there is of great importance to us all world-wide.

[simplejeff]

All throughout the world,  all throughout history, even the religious people,  what people believe is most often wrong.

There is a standard, God's Standard, His Word, Revealed by Him....

http://www.worthychristianlibrary.com/aw-tozer/knowledge-of-the-holy/chapter-23-the-open-secret/

Worthy Christian Library » A.W. Tozer » Knowledge Of The Holy » Chapter 23 – The Open Secret

Chapter 23 – The Open Secret

 "To know God is at once the easiest and the most difficult thing in the world. It is easy because the knowledge is not won by hard mental toil, but is something freely given. As sunlight falls free on the open field, so the knowledge of the holy God is a free gift to men who are open to receive it.

But this knowledge is difficult because there are conditions to be met and the obstinate nature of fallen man does not take kindly to them.

Let me present a brief summary of these conditions as taught by the Bible and repeated through the centuries by the holiest, sweetest saints the world has ever known:

First, we must forsake our sins. .... " 

 

Most people never take the first step.

[Justin Adams]

1 minute ago, simplejeff said:

All throughout the world,  all throughout history, even the religious people,  what people believe is most often wrong.

There is a standard, God's Standard, His Word, Revealed by Him....

http://www.worthychristianlibrary.com/aw-tozer/knowledge-of-the-holy/chapter-23-the-open-secret/

Worthy Christian Library » A.W. Tozer » Knowledge Of The Holy » Chapter 23 – The Open Secret

Chapter 23 – The Open Secret

 "To know God is at once the easiest and the most difficult thing in the world. It is easy because the knowledge is not won by hard mental toil, but is something freely given. As sunlight falls free on the open field, so the knowledge of the holy God is a free gift to men who are open to receive it.

But this knowledge is difficult because there are conditions to be met and the obstinate nature of fallen man does not take kindly to them.

Let me present a brief summary of these conditions as taught by the Bible and repeated through the centuries by the holiest, sweetest saints the world has ever known:

First, we must forsake our sins. .... " 

 

Most people never take the first step.

Totally Brilliant. Thank you!

[GandalfTheWise]

This thread is rather nostalgic for me. 

Ah, the good old days when I used to base my faith on believing all the right things, seeking out the masses of Satan's wiles infiltrating the church, and determining which men and women of God were the ones who really spoke the truth.  It was so easy back then.  Find the truth and hammer anyone who transgressed God's holiness and Word.  Being like a noble king ("It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2 AV) who would look for the hidden secrets in the Bible in the numbers and patterns and symbology.  It was so easy just finding what was sin in the Bible and pointing that out to people.  It was so cool that God had revealed so many problems and issues in the church and other Christians to me that I could share my wisdom and knowledge with them so that they could be better Christians.  It was so fortunate that I found a set of Christian authors and ministers who really understood the Truth that I could learn from.  I didn't even have to do a lot of study myself.  All I had to do was read their stuff, memorize a few proof texts and point out where people were wrong and what Truth really was.  It was so great that I really didn't have to spend decades studying the Bible to learn Truth, I just had to read their stuff.  It was so easy to point out heresies and wolves in sheep's clothing and false teachers.  They were everywhere. 

Life as a Christian was so easy then.  I really didn't have to work for anything.  God handed it all to me on a silver platter and I could just run with it and be a good Christian with no repercussions for anything I did or said.  All my own sins were forgiven (and God was working on the long term ones) and I was saved and sincere so that covered my shortcomings.  It was great that He directed me to a church and denomination that had a much firmer grasp on truth and holiness than all the other denominations.  

It's a lot harder now.  

When it was about trying to discover all aspects of Truth and what the Bible really taught, it was so easy because I could focus on things that had little to do with growing spiritually or bearing fruit.  Now God expects me to see people, situations, and everything in life through His eyes and wisely apply what He put in the Bible to real life situations in a way that produces healthy spiritual changes and growth in myself and others.

Pointing out the sin in someone's life was so easy; all I had to do was point the finger, quote a scripture, and let God do the convicting.  It wasn't my responsibility if they repented or not.  Now God expects me to give effective godly counsel and wisdom so that they can actually achieve victory over the sin and see a real change and freedom in their life; not just learn to hide it or mitigate it a bit.

When it was about memorizing a few proof texts and resting on those, it was so easy.  Now God expects me (unique call here, not for everyone) to be reading the Bible in Greek (done) and Hebrew (which I started learning) and reading and studying a lot of reference materials for myself.  It was so easy to just read a few books and absorb them and tell other people what was in them.  Now God expects me to spend hours studying a day and become a man of God who can write classic Christian books himself.

When it was about figuring out which churches God was actually in and which He was not, it was much easier to know who to avoid and who to embrace. I could just look at the label on someone and know how to react to them.  Now that God has hammered me over the head with the fact that I have brothers and sisters in Christ are all over the place, I now have to look at each person individually and see what God is doing in their life and what God wants to do in their life.  I can no longer pull out the cookie cutter to make them like me; God is forcing me to take the time consuming path to understand and discern who He wants them individually to be.

Ah, for the good old days when I could just wade into the fray and just start letting it fly with minimal concern for anything other than "Truth".  Now God expects me to do things for growth, edification, love, and unity among my brothers and sisters.  There was a time I was convinced He held me responsible for making sure I corrected every mistake that I saw to defend His holiness and Truth.  Now I'm convinced that I am responsible for making sure those who read my words are encouraged to continue forward in God, are given effective practical advice for moving forward spiritually, and will draw closer to God and others in the Body of Christ.  It was so much easier when all I had to do was talk about Truth; now God expects me to help implement it effectively so that it changes lives.

I used to love confrontation and thrived on it.  But somewhere along the line, God made it a hard thing for me where I am pained by discouraging and potentially hurting someone spiritually.  I used to just take the weed whacker indiscriminately into the garden to make sure I didn't miss a weed.  So what if I knocked off a few good plants, I had to get rid of all of the weeds.  Now my focus is on protecting and nurturing the plants.  Some weeds are so tightly entwined with plants that you have to get down on your hands and knees and take a lot of time and care to separate them.   If I have to leave a few weeds alone to avoid uprooting a good plant, I'll tolerate a few weeds.  It used to be so easy when my sole concern was proclaiming Truth for Truth's sake; it is a lot harder when my concern is helping people grow spiritually and I have to carefully discern how much Truth God wants me to dispense to a particular person at a particular time to accomplish what He wants to accomplish at this time.

Edited October 20, 2017 by GandalfTheWise
cleaned up whitespace

[Justin Adams]

On 10/20/2017 at 10:06 AM, GandalfTheWise said:

This thread is rather nostalgic for me. 

Ah, the good old days when I used to base my faith on believing all the right things, seeking out the masses of Satan's wiles infiltrating the church, and determining which men and women of God were the ones who really spoke the truth.  It was so easy back then.  Find the truth and hammer anyone who transgressed God's holiness and Word.  Being like a noble king ("It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2 AV) who would look for the hidden secrets in the Bible in the numbers and patterns and symbology.  It was so easy just finding what was sin in the Bible and pointing that out to people.  It was so cool that God had revealed so many problems and issues in the church and other Christians to me that I could share my wisdom and knowledge with them so that they could be better Christians.  It was so fortunate that I found a set of Christian authors and ministers who really understood the Truth that I could learn from.  I didn't even have to do a lot of study myself.  All I had to do was read their stuff, memorize a few proof texts and point out where people were wrong and what Truth really was.  It was so great that I really didn't have to spend decades studying the Bible to learn Truth, I just had to read their stuff.  It was so easy to point out heresies and wolves in sheep's clothing and false teachers.  They were everywhere. 

Life as a Christian was so easy then.  I really didn't have to work for anything.  God handed it all to me on a silver platter and I could just run with it and be a good Christian with no repercussions for anything I did or said.  All my own sins were forgiven (and God was working on the long term ones) and I was saved and sincere so that covered my shortcomings.  It was great that He directed me to a church and denomination that had a much firmer grasp on truth and holiness than all the other denominations.  

It's a lot harder now.  

When it was about trying to discover all aspects of Truth and what the Bible really taught, it was so easy because I could focus on things that had little to do with growing spiritually or bearing fruit.  Now God expects me to see people, situations, and everything in life through His eyes and wisely apply what He put in the Bible to real life situations in a way that produces healthy spiritual changes and growth in myself and others.

Pointing out the sin in someone's life was so easy; all I had to do was point the finger, quote a scripture, and let God do the convicting.  It wasn't my responsibility if they repented or not.  Now God expects me to give effective godly counsel and wisdom so that they can actually achieve victory over the sin and see a real change and freedom in their life; not just learn to hide it or mitigate it a bit.

When it was about memorizing a few proof texts and resting on those, it was so easy.  Now God expects me (unique call here, not for everyone) to be reading the Bible in Greek (done) and Hebrew (which I started learning) and reading and studying a lot of reference materials for myself.  It was so easy to just read a few books and absorb them and tell other people what was in them.  Now God expects me to spend hours studying a day and become a man of God who can write classic Christian books himself.

When it was about figuring out which churches God was actually in and which He was not, it was much easier to know who to avoid and who to embrace. I could just look at the label on someone and know how to react to them.  Now that God has hammered me over the head with the fact that I have brothers and sisters in Christ are all over the place, I now have to look at each person individually and see what God is doing in their life and what God wants to do in their life.  I can no longer pull out the cookie cutter to make them like me; God is forcing me to take the time consuming path to understand and discern who He wants them individually to be.

Ah, for the good old days when I could just wade into the fray and just start letting it fly with minimal concern for anything other than "Truth".  Now God expects me to do things for growth, edification, love, and unity among my brothers and sisters.  There was a time I was convinced He held me responsible for making sure I corrected every mistake that I saw to defend His holiness and Truth.  Now I'm convinced that I am responsible for making sure those who read my words are encouraged to continue forward in God, are given effective practical advice for moving forward spiritually, and will draw closer to God and others in the Body of Christ.  It was so much easier when all I had to do was talk about Truth; now God expects me to help implement it effectively so that it changes lives.

I used to love confrontation and thrived on it.  But somewhere along the line, God made it a hard thing for me where I am pained by discouraging and potentially hurting someone spiritually.  I used to just take the weed whacker indiscriminately into the garden to make sure I didn't miss a weed.  So what if I knocked off a few good plants, I had to get rid of all of the weeds.  Now my focus is on protecting and nurturing the plants.  Some weeds are so tightly entwined with plants that you have to get down on your hands and knees and take a lot of time and care to separate them.   If I have to leave a few weeds alone to avoid uprooting a good plant, I'll tolerate a few weeds.  It used to be so easy when my sole concern was proclaiming Truth for Truth's sake; it is a lot harder when my concern is helping people grow spiritually and I have to carefully discern how much Truth God wants me to dispense to a particular person at a particular time to accomplish what He wants to accomplish at this time.

GOOD GOOD GOOD. Some more brilliance.  Thank you!

[Justin Adams]

42 minutes ago, Giller said:

It has been in the bible for so long, concerning the first day of the week, then why do some modern day bibles have to add to this, when it was never there, such as this translation:

It does not say first of the sabbaths, but rather first day of the week, and in the old times people could pick up a Geneva bible, and it never mentioned first of sabbaths.

Why change it now?

It think it is men trying to conform the word to their theology that is doing this, because they cannot accept what it says.

And I do know the argument behind this, how people check the Hebrew, but twist it.

It is like, you cannot know unless you read this, you cannot know unless you read the Aramaic, it reminds me of the Catholic church, who were saying you cannot know unless a priest tells you.

All you need is the Holy Spirit to reveal it to you, and yes praise God for good teachers etc.

 

I do understand what you are saying. I found it frightening at first. It upsets the apple-cart.
But today, we have more diagnostic instruments than ever before. We are mapping genome and DNA.
In other fields what was 'hidden' is becoming known.
Those that want to waste their time on social media and Holly-weird are free to do so. Others find that research, especially language research is showing up some amazing anomalies about our past.
If NASA was not so thoroughly into the evolution error, I am sure its sensors could detect a wealth of subterranean knowledge that would support creation and find some amazing buried items.
So far they have suppressed much of this knowledge.
Others have used textural and contextural algorithms as a study aid. It is not surprising that knowledge is heading at breakneck speed towards something of epic proportions.

Edited October 20, 2017 by Justin Adams
spell

[Dennis1209]

15 hours ago, missmuffet said:

The Trinity is considered a core principle.

As well as Jesus was 100% man and 100% God in the flesh here on earth, lead a sinless life and was born of a virgin. All core tenants of our faith.

[Justin Adams]

2 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

As well as Jesus was 100% man and 100% God in the flesh here on earth, lead a sinless life and was born of a virgin. All core tenants of our faith.

He, Yeshua, The WORD, The ONE, GOD, was before the foundation of the world. By Him were all things made. Nothing that was made was not made by Him. He came in the flesh, born of the virgin Mary(Aramaic name מרים ‎, translit. Maryam or Mariam), He died and was resurrected on the third day. He is now seated at the Right hand of the Father. Yeshua was/is sinless. Of His Kingdom there is no end.

Every knee will bow to Him. He will judge the living and the dead.