" Founded A Christian Nation "

[simplejeff]

On 11/30/2017 at 1:43 AM, justadisciple said:

shiloh357, I do not expect you to agree with me or with others on this issue, but I do ask that you change your attitude towards us. You keep telling us that we know nothing of the Scriptures, that what we are saying is nonsense, etc., when we are actually sincere Christians who are trying to do God's will and submit to Jesus' teachings, even when they are not convenient... even when it may mean losing our lives for the Gospel.

There is nothing in the teachings of Jesus or in the whole of the New Testament that justifies anyone in taking up arms in self defense.  I hope you would be honest enough to agree.

You have pretty much admitted that your position is not based on anything the New Testament actually says, but based on what it does not say (ie. "since nobody can provide a verse to prove that it is wrong to take up arms in self defense, it must be right").

But there are two serious problems with this approach.

1. Every time someone does present you with verses which clearly speak against using violence, you claim it is invalid for one reason or another and does not apply to self defense or to Christians.

2. You not only justify your own position on the grounds that no verse in the New Testament against the use of violence mentions the words "self defense"; but you also accuse those of us who DO base our position on what the New Testament says of somehow being out of sync with the Scriptures, being irresponsible and preaching nonsense.

I ask that you reconsider your attitude towards Christians who disagree with you on this, given that we actually have Scriptural grounds for our beliefs.  You don't have to agree with us, but it would do you good to at least see that your position is not as solid as you think it is.

Agreeing isn't likely,

Peacemaker keep making PEACE !

[simplejeff]

On 12/2/2017 at 11:04 AM, JohnD said:

Interesting to note how Freemasonry was a part of the early American formation.

Part of my recent hobby horse (the Church Organization versus the Church Organism).

Flaws, contradictions, division, and compromise are all attributed to the traditions of men disguised as the Church Organization.

 

Did you find out more since then ? 

[frienduff thaylorde]

2 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

Peacemaker

Yeah but watch what is already beginning to happen and soon who will they see as dangerous.

US JEFF.  the ones that preach andteach to not harm any , to not even self defend , to just pray for our enemies

and they will see us as dangerous fundies. and here is the thing,  most on this sight that defend killing

they will as the delusion increases ,  EVEN see you and me as dangerous.  talk about a delusion.  BUT JEFF they will.   they will.

WELL I say rejoice when men hate you, persecute you , call you the devil or a hater................I MEAN look how the religious treated JESUS

so no marvel when state supporting and govt ones , will soon turn on us too jeff.   I aint sad for us one bit ,   but I am so sad and heavy for them.

Cause I know how evil I was ,  and I know they could have freely had what by grace I was given.  

But the churches WILL GO UNDER ROMES SWAY jeff.  THEY WILL their is nothing that will stop this delusion .   the end had to come and its coming.

This is it .    This is sad for them though.    I truly wished so many had just loved CHRIST and HIS SAYINGS  heck they could have had such great joy even now

, even now my joy is far greater than all who have come under a false verion of A FLESH serving Christ .   they don't even know the joy I have

and sadly at both our ends , my joy only goes far increased, but theirs will be a far more suffering   THE GIFT was free

but so many picked the wrong Gift.  the JESUS wrapped in mans doctrine image o Christ , and that one cant save .  it don't .

ONLY the TRUE JESUS CHRIST can .   AND he wont deny himself and he wont be a minister of sin nor of lawlessness.     its bad

jeff , this is so heavy and sad for them.     We will pray and keep on reminding I do have hope some will hear .  I do.  

[simplejeff]

On 11/23/2017 at 11:18 AM, Unfailing Presence said:

Which gets to my point , If America could not be considered to be founded on a predominantly Christian basis ,  what nation or country could ?

Is there any better example in all human history ? 

I have never heard any other nation in all human history held up as being " Christian founded "  

You would think even the detractors of America being founded that way would  hold up the example of some other " Christian Nation "  to juxtapose and show how badly America missed the mark ? 

But I have never , ever heard any other nation offered up by either supporters or detractors . 

Won't somebody tell me of one , if a better example exists ? 

Search out what Scripture says of all the nations. 

Israel was the one country, one nation, one people called and chosen and set apart by YHVH throughout history, as written throughout His Word. 

For a short time,  when the country Patrick was living in was observing the Sabbath and honoring YHVH every day, they had peace,  but that history was overwhelming and 'conveniently' BURIED / IGNORED and snowed under/ re-written by the world counterfeit religion.

A few years ago, for a year or 2, there was a Christian leader in Jakarta ,  placed there by YHVH for a short time, in spite of what?  80% ungodly in the country who hated him and finally got him ousted ?

I can't think of any other country with a proven Christian or Jewish leader honoring YHVH currently or in the past -

since the whole world is against Christ,  it is not like they would want the truth promoted, eh ?

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 minute ago, simplejeff said:

Search out what Scripture says of all the nations. 

Israel was the one country, one nation, one people called and chosen and set apart by YHVH throughout history, as written throughout His Word. 

For a short time,  when the country Patrick was living in was observing the Sabbath and honoring YHVH every day, they had peace,  but that history was overwhelming and 'conveniently' BURIED / IGNORED and snowed under/ re-written by the world counterfeit religion.

A few years ago, for a year or 2, there was a Christian leader in Jakarta ,  placed there by YHVH for a short time, in spite of what?  80% ungodly in the country who hated him and finally got him ousted ?

I can't think of any other country with a proven Christian or Jewish leader honoring YHVH currently or in the past -

since the whole world is against Christ,  it is not like they would want the truth promoted, eh ?

This is what most cant see.   IF our own nation won its freedom by massive bloodshed against England ,  HOW ON EARTH was that CHRISTAIN.

most have a mindset that largely started from ROME .  this idea that we cant be free , unless our lives are free . 

I seen heard of slaves that were owned and they were FREE and their masters were NOT

Men in prison could sing and were FREE , but their captors were not .

FREE has nothing to do with our cirumstances in this world .  BEING MADE FREE and HAVING the abundant life has nothing to do with this world or its things

ITS SIMPLY KNOWING JESUS.    even as a slave in prison that one ISFREE and has the Abundant life that the richest of kings knows not.

But for so many they have no idea what I say.    To them its either a words on a page that they cannot even relate too.

they just know not .  BUT if we are born of the SPIRIT we KNOW and we will learn and keep learning AMEN.  

[simplejeff]

3 minutes ago, Giller said:

Now should there be jails ? Of course there should

Last week I saw a very long web page with mostly Scriptures showing the penalties for breaking TORAH,  and not one of the penalties was jail time.  They had the best justice system on earth (having been given by YHVH Himself)...

In the usa,  the jail system is very far from just.  Most other countries too (don't know of any actually just one).

 

[simplejeff]

"Millions locked up in jails. Criminals or poor are slaves of individuals."

"Introduction:

    God never instructed Jews in the Law of Moses to ever put anyone in prison. There were no jails in the original judicial system of the Hebrews.
        In place of prisons, God provided a better system...."

http://www.bible.ca/sin-no-jails-prisons-in-judaism-old-testament-law-of-moses-slavery-welfare-jewish-comparison.htm

 

[simplejeff]

4 minutes ago, Giller said:

Hmmm interesting read, makes me want to look further in this issue, all I know is that under the new covenant, criminals should not just be let to go free.

Correct.  YHVH'S Justice is Perfect in Judgment , His Way. As Directed by Him.

Today ?  Criminals run the systems.  The leaders and the populace with few exceptions top to bottom are corrupt.  The guilty get $1,000,000.00 free for defense.  This is not justice at all.

Remember prohibition?  The cities in the NE US were found to have ALL the politicians and police authorities running alcholol from Canada or making money off those who made it illegally.

Remember the recent wars ?  .....  So sad,  too bad,   more awols in the 90's every year than all of wwi wwii and korea.  From Generals to Privates.  Because, they said,  "we were lied to  - we thought we were going to help people. Instead we killed them,  and were part of massive rivers of drug flow to the usa,  etc etc etc ....

PRAY A LOT EVERY DAY.   YHVH says to.

[CompleteAgape]

On 11/30/2017 at 4:13 PM, John Robinson said:

As an Army vet, I've long held the suspicion that most of what passes as pacifism is really nothing more than cowardice in better clothes.

Takes a lot more courage to face someone willing to harm or kill you when you don't have a weapon and are willing to die; than being willing to protect your own life (or someone else's life) by killing them.  Your statement is logically fallacious.

[The_Patriot21]

Love it when people bump ancient threads, just to tell someone theyre wrong. Makes absolutely no sense at all, if you want to discuss the topic just start a new thread, and just leave the old one be.