other one Posted December 1, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,106 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,837 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 1, 2017 3 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said: I don't consider you a heretic. In my personal opinion, you are too drawn to conspiracy theories and your personal bias when it comes to any one of them clouds objective thinking. I also think that, given your past with the "dark" side, that particular facet of your life left some deep scars and some of them haven't quite been completely healed yet. Like many of us, you get most of it right, but in the few areas you are wrong, you are way wrong. Most of us are the exact same way. And we won't consider outside influence that tells us we are wrong. You may be right for there are many things I really wish I had not seen back in the 70's.... but it looks more and more like maybe it was meant to be that way.... and with what I know is coming we'll have to see what is wrong and what isn't..... and I really really wish I didn't know those things were just around the corner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Is Jesus Coming? Posted December 2, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 505 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 299 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/19/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 2, 2017 On 30/11/2017 at 10:02 AM, other one said: if you want to know what I would have done different, first of all your first post was hugely too large. I would guess not a single person read all that you put into your first post.... I would have simply started with a single paragraph stating that with the lunar calendar setting the months and days of the week, the day we call the seventh day of the week is not always the same. Some people would want to know why and the proof would consist of parts of your original post a little at a time so as to not push people into reading too much at one time. That way you can set the actual purpose of the thread and make people understand from the start. you would still get some saying what difference does it make.... and to that I would have to agree to a point. if you want to discuss whether or not we should keep the Sabbath, we can do that.... we've had a lot of experience with it. I've tried that kind of approach too in the past: 'with the lunar calendar setting the months and days of the week, the day we call the seventh day of the week is not always the same.' The result is still the same but with a dose of "We have another lunar Sabbath lunatic here everyone." So no you're wrong and I'm not going to try it again here. Seriously I've tried many different tactics but the subject is complex, large and novel, so most people have not heard of it, jump to conclusions and or have not got the learning skills and or patients to understand it. For instance I been here I think three times over the last year trying various ways and I think you're the first here to get it. So you can see why I have praised you so much. I'm on other forums doing the same thing I would estimate that roughly only about 1 in 50 to 100 who read my threads on this subject understand it. I hope you've been digesting and considering what I told you about how the Calendar foretells what days Jesus returns on but that is another huge leap of understanding that most who understand the Calendar like you have done don't see/believe. I hope you do see it. P.S. Just to point out the level of reasoning I am used to you, see how Cobalt is still going on about SDA's even though I have stated many times I'm actually very anti-SDA and even when you tell him as well that I'm not SDA he still completely ignores commenting on his error; SAD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmbld Posted December 2, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,491 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 1,457 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/23/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1971 Share Posted December 2, 2017 On 11/30/2017 at 6:47 PM, other one said: You may be right for there are many things I really wish I had not seen back in the 70's.... but it looks more and more like maybe it was meant to be that way.... and with what I know is coming we'll have to see what is wrong and what isn't..... and I really really wish I didn't know those things were just around the corner... Since this thread has derailed into discussing a person, Oo, I’d like to add. Oo, you probably don’t need to hear this, but I’d like to say it anyway. Oo, you come across as real, genuine, and caring. I appreciate immensely your posts here at Worthy. God bless, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted December 2, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,106 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,837 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 2, 2017 Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Is Jesus Coming? Posted December 5, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 505 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 299 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/19/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 On 29/11/2017 at 7:37 PM, Rick_Parker said: Irrelevant. Paul says that one person may observe the Sabbath on this day and another on that day, but that the Sabbath was whatever day one chooses to make it as it is every day when we rest upon the Lord Jesus. 1. It is reasonable to assume that Jesus kept the Sabbath and therefore the ancient Hebrew calendar and it's Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts must have been common knowledge at this time. 2. After the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 AD the Jews no longer had a temple to sacrifice in nor a priesthood to do it, as they had all been killed. The Romans virtually killed everyone in Jerusalem and Massada where the rest of the rebels ran to. This left the Jewish population decimated and of the Jews living else where in Israel who had survived, by cow-towing to the Romans, very few return or decided to live in Jerusalem after 70 AD. The Sanhedrin however did mange to largely survive and formed a seat of rabbinic learning in the south of Galilee, where they maintained the practice of keeping the ancient Hebrew calendar and it's Sabbaths, New Moons and a Annual Feasts by travelling to Jerusalem each month to sight the new moon. 3. Over the successive generations from 70 AD onwards these traumatic events had forced the Jews to look for sanctuary within the rest of the Roman Empire and beyond, in what was called the Diaspora. They were refugees scattered in small groups and families, struggling to survive in foreign countries where they were more often than not treated as the lowest of the low. 4. Then after the Simon Bar Kokbha revolt between 132 - 135 AD and Emperor Hadrian's violent retaliation which was one of Rome's largest ever military responses to rebellion within the empire, with some 13 legions being sent (only 4 were sent in 70 AD for example). Hadrian then banned all Jews from even being with in eye sight of Jerusalem by pain of death and after this there were even fewer Jews living in Israel. This also meant the Sanhedrin could no longer visually sight the new moon from Jerusalem in order to know when their Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts were, and even though the new moon could be sighted from Jerusalem up to 135 AD this meant nothing to the poor survivors living abroad, as there was no way these monthly sightings could be sent to them quickly enough for them to calculate when the Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts were really meant to be. They could try to sight the new moon from wherever they were but then this would be on different days compared to Jews who were living further to the east or west. 5. Instead the Jews found themselves living in an empire which was being taken over by the new Roman Julian calendar, named after Julius Caesar. This new calendar that first took effect in the province of Rome had started on 1st January 45 BC and this day was named 'Friday' (each of the 7 days of this new calendar was given a new name, named after a Roman god). However, the dates and days before 1st January 45 BC were calculated by the Roman using a completely different ancient Roman calendar, that had an 8 day week, and these 8 days were simply named A,B,C,D,E,F,G & H (8 days) and which had been used for hundreds years by the Romans just in the province of Rome. The new Julian calendar's 7 day week was created by Sosigenes the Greek Mathematician and it had nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew calendar 7 day week, as they were totally separate from each other. It then took about 400 years before all the other countries within the Roman Empire were eventually forced to use the new Julian calendar with it's new 7 day week. 6. As the new Roman Julian 7 day week, which began separately from the ancient Hebrew 7 day week, began to take over the Roman Empire, the early church (that was mainly made up of non-Jews after Peter the first Pope) simply used the new Julian calendar's 7th day (Saturday) as the Sabbath, even though it had nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew calendar and its reckoning of when the Sabbath was. The Roman Catholic church carried on with this regardless of the fact that the Julian calendar was totally different from the ancient Hebrew calendar. 7. From 135 AD to 321 AD over half a dozen generations came and went, with each generation of impoverished Jews continuing the struggle to survive within the Roman Empire. As each generation lived and worked in these countries that were using the new 7 day Julian week, it meant that more and more Jews were forced to work on their Sabbath, as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar, or face becoming even more impoverished. While they tried to maintain as much of their traditions as possible most could not keep their Sabbaths, New Moons or Annual Feasts on the correct day as calculated by their ancient Hebrew calendar. As said even if they tried to sight the new moon from wherever they were living this would not be on the same day compared to Jews who were living further to the east or west, and more importantly on the day the new moon would be sighted from Jerusalem. As each generation gradually came and went it became harder and harder to NOT fit in with the new Roman Julian 7 day working week and its Saturday Sabbath. Eventually over these generations the ancient reckoning of the Sabbath, as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar was practically lost to history and the Jews living in the Empire gradually accepted Saturday as the Sabbath more and more. 8. Then in 321 AD the Roman Emperor Constantine who hated the Jews (along with most of the rest of the Roman world) changed the day of rest on the new Julian calendar from Saturday to Sunday, this forced the impoverished Jews to either work on what many thought by now was the Sabbath (Saturday) or become even more impoverished. This caused and has since caused even more confusion amongst Christians and Jews as to when the real Sabbath is, as really it has never been on Saturday or Sunday on the Roman Julian calendar but has always been calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar. 9. In response to all this in 359 AD Sanhedrin Rabbi Hillel II in Israel created the new modern Jewish calendar which uses the mathematically calculated Metonic 19 year lunar cycle, that allows Jews to celebrate all of their New Moon Days and Annual Feast Days on the same day no matter where in the world they live (even though half of the time it is a day out compared to the visually sighted new moon from Jerusalem). However, although this gives a good approximation of when the Jewish New Moon Days and Annual Feast are, Hillel appears to have not attempted to try and get the Jews to also follow the original Sabbath as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar. The reason for this was because the Jews who were scattered across the Roman Empire and beyond, were still simply struggling to survive and had become so used to the new Julian calendar and it's Saturday Sabbath, that if they would have tried to have gone back to worshipping on the correct day as reckoned by their ancient Hebrew calendar, it would have placed a further burden on them and put them at risk of being even more persecuted, because taking days off work that were calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar rather than fitting in with the Julian Saturday Sabbath would have caused confusion and more resentment towards them. 10. The Hebrew calendar and it reckoning of when the Sabbath really was drifted from human history to be almost forgotten. This calendar that was once common knowledge to the ancient Hebrews and the authors of the Bible never thought it necessary to explain this calendar in one convenient place, as they never envisaged a time when it would not be used. However, hidden amongst the scriptures of the Bible are many references to the ancient Hebrew calendar and its Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts, which can be sifted out and reconstructed. This is not an easy thing to do however, if it was then more people would know about it but then most people don't even know about all the above information either, so it is understandable if you have never heard about where and how these snippets of scripture explain the ancient Hebrew calendar. Their are various studies on the ancient Hebrew calendar as describes in the Bible and here are a few that are helpful: https://guidetothebible.wordpress.com/start-reading-the-book/ http://www.hope-of-israel.org/sabtosat.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Is Jesus Coming? Posted December 5, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 505 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 299 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/19/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 On 29/11/2017 at 10:12 PM, John Robinson said: Sabbath this, Sabbath that ... caramba, talk about straining at a gnat. (Hey, that kind of rhymes! ) Anyway, I suppose everyone needs a hobby ... even something as stultifying (to me) as this. 1. It is reasonable to assume that Jesus kept the Sabbath and therefore the ancient Hebrew calendar and it's Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts must have been common knowledge at this time. 2. After the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 AD the Jews no longer had a temple to sacrifice in nor a priesthood to do it, as they had all been killed. The Romans virtually killed everyone in Jerusalem and Massada where the rest of the rebels ran to. This left the Jewish population decimated and of the Jews living else where in Israel who had survived, by cow-towing to the Romans, very few return or decided to live in Jerusalem after 70 AD. The Sanhedrin however did mange to largely survive and formed a seat of rabbinic learning in the south of Galilee, where they maintained the practice of keeping the ancient Hebrew calendar and it's Sabbaths, New Moons and a Annual Feasts by travelling to Jerusalem each month to sight the new moon. 3. Over the successive generations from 70 AD onwards these traumatic events had forced the Jews to look for sanctuary within the rest of the Roman Empire and beyond, in what was called the Diaspora. They were refugees scattered in small groups and families, struggling to survive in foreign countries where they were more often than not treated as the lowest of the low. 4. Then after the Simon Bar Kokbha revolt between 132 - 135 AD and Emperor Hadrian's violent retaliation which was one of Rome's largest ever military responses to rebellion within the empire, with some 13 legions being sent (only 4 were sent in 70 AD for example). Hadrian then banned all Jews from even being with in eye sight of Jerusalem by pain of death and after this there were even fewer Jews living in Israel. This also meant the Sanhedrin could no longer visually sight the new moon from Jerusalem in order to know when their Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts were, and even though the new moon could be sighted from Jerusalem up to 135 AD this meant nothing to the poor survivors living abroad, as there was no way these monthly sightings could be sent to them quickly enough for them to calculate when the Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts were really meant to be. They could try to sight the new moon from wherever they were but then this would be on different days compared to Jews who were living further to the east or west. 5. Instead the Jews found themselves living in an empire which was being taken over by the new Roman Julian calendar, named after Julius Caesar. This new calendar that first took effect in the province of Rome had started on 1st January 45 BC and this day was named 'Friday' (each of the 7 days of this new calendar was given a new name, named after a Roman god). However, the dates and days before 1st January 45 BC were calculated by the Roman using a completely different ancient Roman calendar, that had an 8 day week, and these 8 days were simply named A,B,C,D,E,F,G & H (8 days) and which had been used for hundreds years by the Romans just in the province of Rome. The new Julian calendar's 7 day week was created by Sosigenes the Greek Mathematician and it had nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew calendar 7 day week, as they were totally separate from each other. It then took about 400 years before all the other countries within the Roman Empire were eventually forced to use the new Julian calendar with it's new 7 day week. 6. As the new Roman Julian 7 day week, which began separately from the ancient Hebrew 7 day week, began to take over the Roman Empire, the early church (that was mainly made up of non-Jews after Peter the first Pope) simply used the new Julian calendar's 7th day (Saturday) as the Sabbath, even though it had nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew calendar and its reckoning of when the Sabbath was. The Roman Catholic church carried on with this regardless of the fact that the Julian calendar was totally different from the ancient Hebrew calendar. 7. From 135 AD to 321 AD over half a dozen generations came and went, with each generation of impoverished Jews continuing the struggle to survive within the Roman Empire. As each generation lived and worked in these countries that were using the new 7 day Julian week, it meant that more and more Jews were forced to work on their Sabbath, as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar, or face becoming even more impoverished. While they tried to maintain as much of their traditions as possible most could not keep their Sabbaths, New Moons or Annual Feasts on the correct day as calculated by their ancient Hebrew calendar. As said even if they tried to sight the new moon from wherever they were living this would not be on the same day compared to Jews who were living further to the east or west, and more importantly on the day the new moon would be sighted from Jerusalem. As each generation gradually came and went it became harder and harder to NOT fit in with the new Roman Julian 7 day working week and its Saturday Sabbath. Eventually over these generations the ancient reckoning of the Sabbath, as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar was practically lost to history and the Jews living in the Empire gradually accepted Saturday as the Sabbath more and more. 8. Then in 321 AD the Roman Emperor Constantine who hated the Jews (along with most of the rest of the Roman world) changed the day of rest on the new Julian calendar from Saturday to Sunday, this forced the impoverished Jews to either work on what many thought by now was the Sabbath (Saturday) or become even more impoverished. This caused and has since caused even more confusion amongst Christians and Jews as to when the real Sabbath is, as really it has never been on Saturday or Sunday on the Roman Julian calendar but has always been calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar. 9. In response to all this in 359 AD Sanhedrin Rabbi Hillel II in Israel created the new modern Jewish calendar which uses the mathematically calculated Metonic 19 year lunar cycle, that allows Jews to celebrate all of their New Moon Days and Annual Feast Days on the same day no matter where in the world they live (even though half of the time it is a day out compared to the visually sighted new moon from Jerusalem). However, although this gives a good approximation of when the Jewish New Moon Days and Annual Feast are, Hillel appears to have not attempted to try and get the Jews to also follow the original Sabbath as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar. The reason for this was because the Jews who were scattered across the Roman Empire and beyond, were still simply struggling to survive and had become so used to the new Julian calendar and it's Saturday Sabbath, that if they would have tried to have gone back to worshipping on the correct day as reckoned by their ancient Hebrew calendar, it would have placed a further burden on them and put them at risk of being even more persecuted, because taking days off work that were calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar rather than fitting in with the Julian Saturday Sabbath would have caused confusion and more resentment towards them. 10. The Hebrew calendar and it reckoning of when the Sabbath really was drifted from human history to be almost forgotten. This calendar that was once common knowledge to the ancient Hebrews and the authors of the Bible never thought it necessary to explain this calendar in one convenient place, as they never envisaged a time when it would not be used. However, hidden amongst the scriptures of the Bible are many references to the ancient Hebrew calendar and its Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts, which can be sifted out and reconstructed. This is not an easy thing to do however, if it was then more people would know about it but then most people don't even know about all the above information either, so it is understandable if you have never heard about where and how these snippets of scripture explain the ancient Hebrew calendar. Their are various studies on the ancient Hebrew calendar as describes in the Bible and here are a few that are helpful: https://guidetothebible.wordpress.com/start-reading-the-book/ http://www.hope-of-israel.org/sabtosat.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Is Jesus Coming? Posted December 5, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 505 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 299 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/19/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 On 29/11/2017 at 10:46 PM, simplejeff said: Why ? This is not how Jews or Christians observed the Sabbath in the last 2000 to 4000 years . (except maybe for some small isolated? groups here or there) i.e. what group (name) are you trying to follow ? 1. It is reasonable to assume that Jesus kept the Sabbath and therefore the ancient Hebrew calendar and it's Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts must have been common knowledge at this time. 2. After the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 AD the Jews no longer had a temple to sacrifice in nor a priesthood to do it, as they had all been killed. The Romans virtually killed everyone in Jerusalem and Massada where the rest of the rebels ran to. This left the Jewish population decimated and of the Jews living else where in Israel who had survived, by cow-towing to the Romans, very few return or decided to live in Jerusalem after 70 AD. The Sanhedrin however did mange to largely survive and formed a seat of rabbinic learning in the south of Galilee, where they maintained the practice of keeping the ancient Hebrew calendar and it's Sabbaths, New Moons and a Annual Feasts by travelling to Jerusalem each month to sight the new moon. 3. Over the successive generations from 70 AD onwards these traumatic events had forced the Jews to look for sanctuary within the rest of the Roman Empire and beyond, in what was called the Diaspora. They were refugees scattered in small groups and families, struggling to survive in foreign countries where they were more often than not treated as the lowest of the low. 4. Then after the Simon Bar Kokbha revolt between 132 - 135 AD and Emperor Hadrian's violent retaliation which was one of Rome's largest ever military responses to rebellion within the empire, with some 13 legions being sent (only 4 were sent in 70 AD for example). Hadrian then banned all Jews from even being with in eye sight of Jerusalem by pain of death and after this there were even fewer Jews living in Israel. This also meant the Sanhedrin could no longer visually sight the new moon from Jerusalem in order to know when their Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts were, and even though the new moon could be sighted from Jerusalem up to 135 AD this meant nothing to the poor survivors living abroad, as there was no way these monthly sightings could be sent to them quickly enough for them to calculate when the Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts were really meant to be. They could try to sight the new moon from wherever they were but then this would be on different days compared to Jews who were living further to the east or west. 5. Instead the Jews found themselves living in an empire which was being taken over by the new Roman Julian calendar, named after Julius Caesar. This new calendar that first took effect in the province of Rome had started on 1st January 45 BC and this day was named 'Friday' (each of the 7 days of this new calendar was given a new name, named after a Roman god). However, the dates and days before 1st January 45 BC were calculated by the Roman using a completely different ancient Roman calendar, that had an 8 day week, and these 8 days were simply named A,B,C,D,E,F,G & H (8 days) and which had been used for hundreds years by the Romans just in the province of Rome. The new Julian calendar's 7 day week was created by Sosigenes the Greek Mathematician and it had nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew calendar 7 day week, as they were totally separate from each other. It then took about 400 years before all the other countries within the Roman Empire were eventually forced to use the new Julian calendar with it's new 7 day week. 6. As the new Roman Julian 7 day week, which began separately from the ancient Hebrew 7 day week, began to take over the Roman Empire, the early church (that was mainly made up of non-Jews after Peter the first Pope) simply used the new Julian calendar's 7th day (Saturday) as the Sabbath, even though it had nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew calendar and its reckoning of when the Sabbath was. The Roman Catholic church carried on with this regardless of the fact that the Julian calendar was totally different from the ancient Hebrew calendar. 7. From 135 AD to 321 AD over half a dozen generations came and went, with each generation of impoverished Jews continuing the struggle to survive within the Roman Empire. As each generation lived and worked in these countries that were using the new 7 day Julian week, it meant that more and more Jews were forced to work on their Sabbath, as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar, or face becoming even more impoverished. While they tried to maintain as much of their traditions as possible most could not keep their Sabbaths, New Moons or Annual Feasts on the correct day as calculated by their ancient Hebrew calendar. As said even if they tried to sight the new moon from wherever they were living this would not be on the same day compared to Jews who were living further to the east or west, and more importantly on the day the new moon would be sighted from Jerusalem. As each generation gradually came and went it became harder and harder to NOT fit in with the new Roman Julian 7 day working week and its Saturday Sabbath. Eventually over these generations the ancient reckoning of the Sabbath, as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar was practically lost to history and the Jews living in the Empire gradually accepted Saturday as the Sabbath more and more. 8. Then in 321 AD the Roman Emperor Constantine who hated the Jews (along with most of the rest of the Roman world) changed the day of rest on the new Julian calendar from Saturday to Sunday, this forced the impoverished Jews to either work on what many thought by now was the Sabbath (Saturday) or become even more impoverished. This caused and has since caused even more confusion amongst Christians and Jews as to when the real Sabbath is, as really it has never been on Saturday or Sunday on the Roman Julian calendar but has always been calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar. 9. In response to all this in 359 AD Sanhedrin Rabbi Hillel II in Israel created the new modern Jewish calendar which uses the mathematically calculated Metonic 19 year lunar cycle, that allows Jews to celebrate all of their New Moon Days and Annual Feast Days on the same day no matter where in the world they live (even though half of the time it is a day out compared to the visually sighted new moon from Jerusalem). However, although this gives a good approximation of when the Jewish New Moon Days and Annual Feast are, Hillel appears to have not attempted to try and get the Jews to also follow the original Sabbath as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar. The reason for this was because the Jews who were scattered across the Roman Empire and beyond, were still simply struggling to survive and had become so used to the new Julian calendar and it's Saturday Sabbath, that if they would have tried to have gone back to worshipping on the correct day as reckoned by their ancient Hebrew calendar, it would have placed a further burden on them and put them at risk of being even more persecuted, because taking days off work that were calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar rather than fitting in with the Julian Saturday Sabbath would have caused confusion and more resentment towards them. 10. The Hebrew calendar and it reckoning of when the Sabbath really was drifted from human history to be almost forgotten. This calendar that was once common knowledge to the ancient Hebrews and the authors of the Bible never thought it necessary to explain this calendar in one convenient place, as they never envisaged a time when it would not be used. However, hidden amongst the scriptures of the Bible are many references to the ancient Hebrew calendar and its Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts, which can be sifted out and reconstructed. This is not an easy thing to do however, if it was then more people would know about it but then most people don't even know about all the above information either, so it is understandable if you have never heard about where and how these snippets of scripture explain the ancient Hebrew calendar. Their are various studies on the ancient Hebrew calendar as describes in the Bible and here are a few that are helpful: https://guidetothebible.wordpress.com/start-reading-the-book/ http://www.hope-of-israel.org/sabtosat.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Is Jesus Coming? Posted December 5, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 505 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 299 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/19/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 On 29/11/2017 at 10:56 PM, Sojourner414 said: Let's play "Musical Sabbaths"! The brand-new game where you gotta guess which day of the week the Sabbath is on! Get it wrong, and it's BBQ city for ya!!! Oh, I'm sorry; we can't say that!!! Otherwise, we'll get reported for not agreeing exactly with the opinion of the OP!! In all seriousness: I agree with Cobalt here; how many threads are needed to promote these two websites? And if we're going to have "rolling sabbaths", then what is the point? The way this is being made out is that God is playing games with people, trying to find a way to make them fail and miss critical worship days. 1. It is reasonable to assume that Jesus kept the Sabbath and therefore the ancient Hebrew calendar and it's Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts must have been common knowledge at this time. 2. After the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 AD the Jews no longer had a temple to sacrifice in nor a priesthood to do it, as they had all been killed. The Romans virtually killed everyone in Jerusalem and Massada where the rest of the rebels ran to. This left the Jewish population decimated and of the Jews living else where in Israel who had survived, by cow-towing to the Romans, very few return or decided to live in Jerusalem after 70 AD. The Sanhedrin however did mange to largely survive and formed a seat of rabbinic learning in the south of Galilee, where they maintained the practice of keeping the ancient Hebrew calendar and it's Sabbaths, New Moons and a Annual Feasts by travelling to Jerusalem each month to sight the new moon. 3. Over the successive generations from 70 AD onwards these traumatic events had forced the Jews to look for sanctuary within the rest of the Roman Empire and beyond, in what was called the Diaspora. They were refugees scattered in small groups and families, struggling to survive in foreign countries where they were more often than not treated as the lowest of the low. 4. Then after the Simon Bar Kokbha revolt between 132 - 135 AD and Emperor Hadrian's violent retaliation which was one of Rome's largest ever military responses to rebellion within the empire, with some 13 legions being sent (only 4 were sent in 70 AD for example). Hadrian then banned all Jews from even being with in eye sight of Jerusalem by pain of death and after this there were even fewer Jews living in Israel. This also meant the Sanhedrin could no longer visually sight the new moon from Jerusalem in order to know when their Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts were, and even though the new moon could be sighted from Jerusalem up to 135 AD this meant nothing to the poor survivors living abroad, as there was no way these monthly sightings could be sent to them quickly enough for them to calculate when the Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts were really meant to be. They could try to sight the new moon from wherever they were but then this would be on different days compared to Jews who were living further to the east or west. 5. Instead the Jews found themselves living in an empire which was being taken over by the new Roman Julian calendar, named after Julius Caesar. This new calendar that first took effect in the province of Rome had started on 1st January 45 BC and this day was named 'Friday' (each of the 7 days of this new calendar was given a new name, named after a Roman god). However, the dates and days before 1st January 45 BC were calculated by the Roman using a completely different ancient Roman calendar, that had an 8 day week, and these 8 days were simply named A,B,C,D,E,F,G & H (8 days) and which had been used for hundreds years by the Romans just in the province of Rome. The new Julian calendar's 7 day week was created by Sosigenes the Greek Mathematician and it had nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew calendar 7 day week, as they were totally separate from each other. It then took about 400 years before all the other countries within the Roman Empire were eventually forced to use the new Julian calendar with it's new 7 day week. 6. As the new Roman Julian 7 day week, which began separately from the ancient Hebrew 7 day week, began to take over the Roman Empire, the early church (that was mainly made up of non-Jews after Peter the first Pope) simply used the new Julian calendar's 7th day (Saturday) as the Sabbath, even though it had nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew calendar and its reckoning of when the Sabbath was. The Roman Catholic church carried on with this regardless of the fact that the Julian calendar was totally different from the ancient Hebrew calendar. 7. From 135 AD to 321 AD over half a dozen generations came and went, with each generation of impoverished Jews continuing the struggle to survive within the Roman Empire. As each generation lived and worked in these countries that were using the new 7 day Julian week, it meant that more and more Jews were forced to work on their Sabbath, as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar, or face becoming even more impoverished. While they tried to maintain as much of their traditions as possible most could not keep their Sabbaths, New Moons or Annual Feasts on the correct day as calculated by their ancient Hebrew calendar. As said even if they tried to sight the new moon from wherever they were living this would not be on the same day compared to Jews who were living further to the east or west, and more importantly on the day the new moon would be sighted from Jerusalem. As each generation gradually came and went it became harder and harder to NOT fit in with the new Roman Julian 7 day working week and its Saturday Sabbath. Eventually over these generations the ancient reckoning of the Sabbath, as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar was practically lost to history and the Jews living in the Empire gradually accepted Saturday as the Sabbath more and more. 8. Then in 321 AD the Roman Emperor Constantine who hated the Jews (along with most of the rest of the Roman world) changed the day of rest on the new Julian calendar from Saturday to Sunday, this forced the impoverished Jews to either work on what many thought by now was the Sabbath (Saturday) or become even more impoverished. This caused and has since caused even more confusion amongst Christians and Jews as to when the real Sabbath is, as really it has never been on Saturday or Sunday on the Roman Julian calendar but has always been calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar. 9. In response to all this in 359 AD Sanhedrin Rabbi Hillel II in Israel created the new modern Jewish calendar which uses the mathematically calculated Metonic 19 year lunar cycle, that allows Jews to celebrate all of their New Moon Days and Annual Feast Days on the same day no matter where in the world they live (even though half of the time it is a day out compared to the visually sighted new moon from Jerusalem). However, although this gives a good approximation of when the Jewish New Moon Days and Annual Feast are, Hillel appears to have not attempted to try and get the Jews to also follow the original Sabbath as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar. The reason for this was because the Jews who were scattered across the Roman Empire and beyond, were still simply struggling to survive and had become so used to the new Julian calendar and it's Saturday Sabbath, that if they would have tried to have gone back to worshipping on the correct day as reckoned by their ancient Hebrew calendar, it would have placed a further burden on them and put them at risk of being even more persecuted, because taking days off work that were calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar rather than fitting in with the Julian Saturday Sabbath would have caused confusion and more resentment towards them. 10. The Hebrew calendar and it reckoning of when the Sabbath really was drifted from human history to be almost forgotten. This calendar that was once common knowledge to the ancient Hebrews and the authors of the Bible never thought it necessary to explain this calendar in one convenient place, as they never envisaged a time when it would not be used. However, hidden amongst the scriptures of the Bible are many references to the ancient Hebrew calendar and its Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts, which can be sifted out and reconstructed. This is not an easy thing to do however, if it was then more people would know about it but then most people don't even know about all the above information either, so it is understandable if you have never heard about where and how these snippets of scripture explain the ancient Hebrew calendar. Their are various studies on the ancient Hebrew calendar as describes in the Bible and here are a few that are helpful: https://guidetothebible.wordpress.com/start-reading-the-book/ http://www.hope-of-israel.org/sabtosat.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Is Jesus Coming? Posted December 5, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 505 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 299 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/19/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 On 30/11/2017 at 12:19 AM, Marilyn C said: Hi When Is Jesus Coming? In answer to your `name` Jesus is coming when the Father sends Him....(Acts 3: 20) and that is very soon for Him to receive His Body unto Himself - Head connects to His Body. Now as to the Sabbath. We know from God`s word that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath and for us as believers our `Sabbath,` is our `rest` in Him, not doing fleshly works but resting in His Holy Spirit doing the work through us. He gets the glory and we are blessed in the process. `And God rested on the 7th day from all His works,....`They shall not enter my rest.` ...because of disobedience....There remains a rest (Sabbath) for the people of God. For he who has entered his rest has himself ceased from his works as God did from His.` (Heb. 4: 4 - 10) Marilyn. 1. It is reasonable to assume that Jesus kept the Sabbath and therefore the ancient Hebrew calendar and it's Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts must have been common knowledge at this time. 2. After the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 AD the Jews no longer had a temple to sacrifice in nor a priesthood to do it, as they had all been killed. The Romans virtually killed everyone in Jerusalem and Massada where the rest of the rebels ran to. This left the Jewish population decimated and of the Jews living else where in Israel who had survived, by cow-towing to the Romans, very few return or decided to live in Jerusalem after 70 AD. The Sanhedrin however did mange to largely survive and formed a seat of rabbinic learning in the south of Galilee, where they maintained the practice of keeping the ancient Hebrew calendar and it's Sabbaths, New Moons and a Annual Feasts by travelling to Jerusalem each month to sight the new moon. 3. Over the successive generations from 70 AD onwards these traumatic events had forced the Jews to look for sanctuary within the rest of the Roman Empire and beyond, in what was called the Diaspora. They were refugees scattered in small groups and families, struggling to survive in foreign countries where they were more often than not treated as the lowest of the low. 4. Then after the Simon Bar Kokbha revolt between 132 - 135 AD and Emperor Hadrian's violent retaliation which was one of Rome's largest ever military responses to rebellion within the empire, with some 13 legions being sent (only 4 were sent in 70 AD for example). Hadrian then banned all Jews from even being with in eye sight of Jerusalem by pain of death and after this there were even fewer Jews living in Israel. This also meant the Sanhedrin could no longer visually sight the new moon from Jerusalem in order to know when their Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts were, and even though the new moon could be sighted from Jerusalem up to 135 AD this meant nothing to the poor survivors living abroad, as there was no way these monthly sightings could be sent to them quickly enough for them to calculate when the Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts were really meant to be. They could try to sight the new moon from wherever they were but then this would be on different days compared to Jews who were living further to the east or west. 5. Instead the Jews found themselves living in an empire which was being taken over by the new Roman Julian calendar, named after Julius Caesar. This new calendar that first took effect in the province of Rome had started on 1st January 45 BC and this day was named 'Friday' (each of the 7 days of this new calendar was given a new name, named after a Roman god). However, the dates and days before 1st January 45 BC were calculated by the Roman using a completely different ancient Roman calendar, that had an 8 day week, and these 8 days were simply named A,B,C,D,E,F,G & H (8 days) and which had been used for hundreds years by the Romans just in the province of Rome. The new Julian calendar's 7 day week was created by Sosigenes the Greek Mathematician and it had nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew calendar 7 day week, as they were totally separate from each other. It then took about 400 years before all the other countries within the Roman Empire were eventually forced to use the new Julian calendar with it's new 7 day week. 6. As the new Roman Julian 7 day week, which began separately from the ancient Hebrew 7 day week, began to take over the Roman Empire, the early church (that was mainly made up of non-Jews after Peter the first Pope) simply used the new Julian calendar's 7th day (Saturday) as the Sabbath, even though it had nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew calendar and its reckoning of when the Sabbath was. The Roman Catholic church carried on with this regardless of the fact that the Julian calendar was totally different from the ancient Hebrew calendar. 7. From 135 AD to 321 AD over half a dozen generations came and went, with each generation of impoverished Jews continuing the struggle to survive within the Roman Empire. As each generation lived and worked in these countries that were using the new 7 day Julian week, it meant that more and more Jews were forced to work on their Sabbath, as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar, or face becoming even more impoverished. While they tried to maintain as much of their traditions as possible most could not keep their Sabbaths, New Moons or Annual Feasts on the correct day as calculated by their ancient Hebrew calendar. As said even if they tried to sight the new moon from wherever they were living this would not be on the same day compared to Jews who were living further to the east or west, and more importantly on the day the new moon would be sighted from Jerusalem. As each generation gradually came and went it became harder and harder to NOT fit in with the new Roman Julian 7 day working week and its Saturday Sabbath. Eventually over these generations the ancient reckoning of the Sabbath, as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar was practically lost to history and the Jews living in the Empire gradually accepted Saturday as the Sabbath more and more. 8. Then in 321 AD the Roman Emperor Constantine who hated the Jews (along with most of the rest of the Roman world) changed the day of rest on the new Julian calendar from Saturday to Sunday, this forced the impoverished Jews to either work on what many thought by now was the Sabbath (Saturday) or become even more impoverished. This caused and has since caused even more confusion amongst Christians and Jews as to when the real Sabbath is, as really it has never been on Saturday or Sunday on the Roman Julian calendar but has always been calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar. 9. In response to all this in 359 AD Sanhedrin Rabbi Hillel II in Israel created the new modern Jewish calendar which uses the mathematically calculated Metonic 19 year lunar cycle, that allows Jews to celebrate all of their New Moon Days and Annual Feast Days on the same day no matter where in the world they live (even though half of the time it is a day out compared to the visually sighted new moon from Jerusalem). However, although this gives a good approximation of when the Jewish New Moon Days and Annual Feast are, Hillel appears to have not attempted to try and get the Jews to also follow the original Sabbath as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar. The reason for this was because the Jews who were scattered across the Roman Empire and beyond, were still simply struggling to survive and had become so used to the new Julian calendar and it's Saturday Sabbath, that if they would have tried to have gone back to worshipping on the correct day as reckoned by their ancient Hebrew calendar, it would have placed a further burden on them and put them at risk of being even more persecuted, because taking days off work that were calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar rather than fitting in with the Julian Saturday Sabbath would have caused confusion and more resentment towards them. 10. The Hebrew calendar and it reckoning of when the Sabbath really was drifted from human history to be almost forgotten. This calendar that was once common knowledge to the ancient Hebrews and the authors of the Bible never thought it necessary to explain this calendar in one convenient place, as they never envisaged a time when it would not be used. However, hidden amongst the scriptures of the Bible are many references to the ancient Hebrew calendar and its Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts, which can be sifted out and reconstructed. This is not an easy thing to do however, if it was then more people would know about it but then most people don't even know about all the above information either, so it is understandable if you have never heard about where and how these snippets of scripture explain the ancient Hebrew calendar. Their are various studies on the ancient Hebrew calendar as describes in the Bible and here are a few that are helpful: https://guidetothebible.wordpress.com/start-reading-the-book/ http://www.hope-of-israel.org/sabtosat.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
When Is Jesus Coming? Posted December 5, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 24 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 505 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 299 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/19/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 5, 2017 On 30/11/2017 at 12:22 AM, Yowm said: Why would lunar cycles make a difference? Wasn't the pattern set in Genesis, 6 days on and 1 day off... equals cycles of 7, nothing lunar about that. 1. It is reasonable to assume that Jesus kept the Sabbath and therefore the ancient Hebrew calendar and it's Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts must have been common knowledge at this time. 2. After the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 AD the Jews no longer had a temple to sacrifice in nor a priesthood to do it, as they had all been killed. The Romans virtually killed everyone in Jerusalem and Massada where the rest of the rebels ran to. This left the Jewish population decimated and of the Jews living else where in Israel who had survived, by cow-towing to the Romans, very few return or decided to live in Jerusalem after 70 AD. The Sanhedrin however did mange to largely survive and formed a seat of rabbinic learning in the south of Galilee, where they maintained the practice of keeping the ancient Hebrew calendar and it's Sabbaths, New Moons and a Annual Feasts by travelling to Jerusalem each month to sight the new moon. 3. Over the successive generations from 70 AD onwards these traumatic events had forced the Jews to look for sanctuary within the rest of the Roman Empire and beyond, in what was called the Diaspora. They were refugees scattered in small groups and families, struggling to survive in foreign countries where they were more often than not treated as the lowest of the low. 4. Then after the Simon Bar Kokbha revolt between 132 - 135 AD and Emperor Hadrian's violent retaliation which was one of Rome's largest ever military responses to rebellion within the empire, with some 13 legions being sent (only 4 were sent in 70 AD for example). Hadrian then banned all Jews from even being with in eye sight of Jerusalem by pain of death and after this there were even fewer Jews living in Israel. This also meant the Sanhedrin could no longer visually sight the new moon from Jerusalem in order to know when their Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts were, and even though the new moon could be sighted from Jerusalem up to 135 AD this meant nothing to the poor survivors living abroad, as there was no way these monthly sightings could be sent to them quickly enough for them to calculate when the Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts were really meant to be. They could try to sight the new moon from wherever they were but then this would be on different days compared to Jews who were living further to the east or west. 5. Instead the Jews found themselves living in an empire which was being taken over by the new Roman Julian calendar, named after Julius Caesar. This new calendar that first took effect in the province of Rome had started on 1st January 45 BC and this day was named 'Friday' (each of the 7 days of this new calendar was given a new name, named after a Roman god). However, the dates and days before 1st January 45 BC were calculated by the Roman using a completely different ancient Roman calendar, that had an 8 day week, and these 8 days were simply named A,B,C,D,E,F,G & H (8 days) and which had been used for hundreds years by the Romans just in the province of Rome. The new Julian calendar's 7 day week was created by Sosigenes the Greek Mathematician and it had nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew calendar 7 day week, as they were totally separate from each other. It then took about 400 years before all the other countries within the Roman Empire were eventually forced to use the new Julian calendar with it's new 7 day week. 6. As the new Roman Julian 7 day week, which began separately from the ancient Hebrew 7 day week, began to take over the Roman Empire, the early church (that was mainly made up of non-Jews after Peter the first Pope) simply used the new Julian calendar's 7th day (Saturday) as the Sabbath, even though it had nothing to do with the ancient Hebrew calendar and its reckoning of when the Sabbath was. The Roman Catholic church carried on with this regardless of the fact that the Julian calendar was totally different from the ancient Hebrew calendar. 7. From 135 AD to 321 AD over half a dozen generations came and went, with each generation of impoverished Jews continuing the struggle to survive within the Roman Empire. As each generation lived and worked in these countries that were using the new 7 day Julian week, it meant that more and more Jews were forced to work on their Sabbath, as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar, or face becoming even more impoverished. While they tried to maintain as much of their traditions as possible most could not keep their Sabbaths, New Moons or Annual Feasts on the correct day as calculated by their ancient Hebrew calendar. As said even if they tried to sight the new moon from wherever they were living this would not be on the same day compared to Jews who were living further to the east or west, and more importantly on the day the new moon would be sighted from Jerusalem. As each generation gradually came and went it became harder and harder to NOT fit in with the new Roman Julian 7 day working week and its Saturday Sabbath. Eventually over these generations the ancient reckoning of the Sabbath, as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar was practically lost to history and the Jews living in the Empire gradually accepted Saturday as the Sabbath more and more. 8. Then in 321 AD the Roman Emperor Constantine who hated the Jews (along with most of the rest of the Roman world) changed the day of rest on the new Julian calendar from Saturday to Sunday, this forced the impoverished Jews to either work on what many thought by now was the Sabbath (Saturday) or become even more impoverished. This caused and has since caused even more confusion amongst Christians and Jews as to when the real Sabbath is, as really it has never been on Saturday or Sunday on the Roman Julian calendar but has always been calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar. 9. In response to all this in 359 AD Sanhedrin Rabbi Hillel II in Israel created the new modern Jewish calendar which uses the mathematically calculated Metonic 19 year lunar cycle, that allows Jews to celebrate all of their New Moon Days and Annual Feast Days on the same day no matter where in the world they live (even though half of the time it is a day out compared to the visually sighted new moon from Jerusalem). However, although this gives a good approximation of when the Jewish New Moon Days and Annual Feast are, Hillel appears to have not attempted to try and get the Jews to also follow the original Sabbath as calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar. The reason for this was because the Jews who were scattered across the Roman Empire and beyond, were still simply struggling to survive and had become so used to the new Julian calendar and it's Saturday Sabbath, that if they would have tried to have gone back to worshipping on the correct day as reckoned by their ancient Hebrew calendar, it would have placed a further burden on them and put them at risk of being even more persecuted, because taking days off work that were calculated by the ancient Hebrew calendar rather than fitting in with the Julian Saturday Sabbath would have caused confusion and more resentment towards them. 10. The Hebrew calendar and it reckoning of when the Sabbath really was drifted from human history to be almost forgotten. This calendar that was once common knowledge to the ancient Hebrews and the authors of the Bible never thought it necessary to explain this calendar in one convenient place, as they never envisaged a time when it would not be used. However, hidden amongst the scriptures of the Bible are many references to the ancient Hebrew calendar and its Sabbaths, New Moons and Annual Feasts, which can be sifted out and reconstructed. This is not an easy thing to do however, if it was then more people would know about it but then most people don't even know about all the above information either, so it is understandable if you have never heard about where and how these snippets of scripture explain the ancient Hebrew calendar. Their are various studies on the ancient Hebrew calendar as describes in the Bible and here are a few that are helpful: https://guidetothebible.wordpress.com/start-reading-the-book/ http://www.hope-of-israel.org/sabtosat.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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