A Headcovering Question

[TheMatrixHasU71]

30 minutes ago, Celtic Baptist said:

Sounds interesting, may I ask where in scripture this is found?

 

God Bless

Argh....I typed it all out and then x-ed out of the site by mistake....

1 Cor 11:3

3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ isGod.

4Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

5But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

6For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. (This is saying here that if it a shame for a woman to expose her head in such a manner then her hair should be covered.

7For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

8For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.

9Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

10For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels. <-- look at Ezek. 1 here where the angels covered their glory with their wings

11Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

12For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

13Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?

14Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

 

[Heleadethme]

2 hours ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

On 12/1/2017 at 11:40 AM, simplejeff said:

So there is no true testimony in wearing a covering as directed by Scripture,

That is actually not true, as the scriptures do say that a woman should cover her hair as an outward symbol of her submission to God through her husband. I cover my hair either with short scarves or with longer veils. 

I would love to be able to wear hats except I am cursed (lol) with an oversized head. I swear for the life of me every ladies' hat I have ever found is 2 sizes too small.

Matrix....just to point out a possible misunderstanding with this, I believe simplejeff was saying that if a woman is not actually in submission in her heart THEN there is not a true testimony in her wearing a headcovering.  I didn't take it that he was saying it is never a true testimony.

That makes me wonder if it is also not a true testimony where there is not true authority, as well.  And what does true Godly authority even look like.  It would be nice to see some clues as to what Godly submission is and is not, and what Godly authority is and is not, since it is so badly needed in the church. 

[Sanctum]

20 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

Matrix....just to point out a possible misunderstanding with this, I believe simplejeff was saying that if a woman is not actually in submission in her heart THEN there is not a true testimony in her wearing a headcovering.  I didn't take it that he was saying it is never a true testimony.

That makes me wonder if it is also not a true testimony where there is not true authority, as well.  And what does true Godly authority even look like.  It would be nice to see some clues as to what Godly submission is and is not, and what Godly authority is and is not, since it is so badly needed in the church. 

This I also wonder... as the whole reason I asked this question is because I've left my church (unsubmissive) and don't have another. 

For those of us who are single, I do think it can include the men in our families.

[Heleadethme]

1 hour ago, Sanctum said:

This I also wonder... as the whole reason I asked this question is because I've left my church (unsubmissive) and don't have another. 

For those of us who are single, I do think it can include the men in our families.

I did wonder why you left your church Sanctum.....nothing would surprise me these days, as we are living through dark days of the falling away.  You just follow the Lord's leading when it comes to finding a church......He has led many to come out of the churches because deception and false doctrine has gotten so bad, it's just not safe spiritually speaking to continue in most of them.

just my opinion, but I don't see why male family members couldn't provide protection and covering if you are living in an extended family, though I don't see how that can be practical if you're living on your own.  I am sure it's not necessary that a single woman go out of her way to seek out male covering and authority unless her circumstances make it necessary due to poverty or danger etc.  Even for the single woman, if she is submitted to Christ she is certainly not uncovered......when there is no human male covering, if we are in Christ, He is our covering and He makes up for any lack.  If you are in a situation with no men around, then there is no need to be in submission to anyone but Him, that requirement just becomes a moot point as the saying goes.  In other words, submission to male authority is only necessitated by the presence of male authority, so if there happen to be none present in your life circumstances, then that just doesn't apply......and you just be submitted to Christ Jesus and He is your covering and faithful shepherd of your soul.  Paul even considered the unmarried to be better off....and I'm sure he was telling the truth.     

 

Edited December 4, 2017 by Heleadethme

[books]

 

Doesn't even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him?

But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her, for her hair is given to her for a covering.

But if any man seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither do God's assemblies.

1 Corinthians 11:14-16

I've understood this to mean a woman's long hair is her covering, and it's a shame for a man to have such a covering (long hair), however, if anyone wants to argue about it, we don't hold with the custom of covering. Have I misread these scriptures?

[Sanctum]

10 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

I did wonder why you left your church Sanctum.....nothing would surprise me these days, as we are living through dark days of the falling away.  You just follow the Lord's leading when it comes to finding a church......He has led many to come out of the churches because deception and false doctrine has gotten so bad, it's just not safe spiritually speaking to continue in most of them.

just my opinion, but I don't see why male family members couldn't provide protection and covering if you are living in an extended family, though I don't see how that can be practical if you're living on your own.  I am sure it's not necessary that a single woman go out of her way to seek out male covering and authority unless her circumstances make it necessary due to poverty or danger etc.  Even for the single woman, if she is submitted to Christ she is certainly not uncovered......when there is no human male covering, if we are in Christ, He is our covering and He makes up for any lack.  If you are in a situation with no men around, then there is no need to be in submission to anyone but Him, that requirement just becomes a moot point as the saying goes.  In other words, submission to male authority is only necessitated by the presence of male authority, so if there happen to be none present in your life circumstances, then that just doesn't apply......and you just be submitted to Christ Jesus and He is your covering and faithful shepherd of your soul.  Paul even considered the unmarried to be better off....and I'm sure he was telling the truth.     

 

It is a long story, and I've gotten into it elsewhere on this site already, but it was literally due to unsubmissiveness to the standards and practices of my church that I left. Doctrinally they were sound; in practice very holy. But in my situation certain extra-Biblical practices of the church were causing me to be stuck in life and become a drain on the church as a whole, and God seemed to be leading me to move on. It's been a hard decision and I've lost much. But I am drawing closer to God through it.

You're right that it depends on the situation for single women, but I believe all of us have authority figures over us in various roles that are set there by God, to whom we can show submission and respect. Of course, ultimately, we submit to Christ.

[Celtic Baptist]

16 hours ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

1 Cor 11:3-6

4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. (This is saying here that if it a shame for a woman to expose her head in such a manner then her hair should be covered.

 

I hate it when I type it all out and somehow delete it. lol

 

I was under the impression that this meant the women should cover their head with their hair only. I guess we will have to agree to disagree here sister.

 

God bless, thanks for the reply

[Heleadethme]

6 hours ago, Sanctum said:

It is a long story, and I've gotten into it elsewhere on this site already, but it was literally due to unsubmissiveness to the standards and practices of my church that I left. Doctrinally they were sound; in practice very holy. But in my situation certain extra-Biblical practices of the church were causing me to be stuck in life and become a drain on the church as a whole, and God seemed to be leading me to move on. It's been a hard decision and I've lost much. But I am drawing closer to God through it.

You're right that it depends on the situation for single women, but I believe all of us have authority figures over us in various roles that are set there by God, to whom we can show submission and respect. Of course, ultimately, we submit to Christ.

Sorry for what you've been through sister......you are right to be concerned over anything extra-biblical.....and amen we submit to Christ first.......being in submission to authority doesn't mean we are to allow any authorities to lead us to disobey Him in any way, and nor does it mean we are no longer to be led by the Holy Spirit..........and nor does authority mean anyone is to exercise authority upon others like the pagans do.  Anyway, it sounds like you were right to leave them, hopefully they'll think about why you left and change their ways.  The Lord bless and keep you.

[TheMatrixHasU71]

6 hours ago, Celtic Baptist said:

I was under the impression that this meant the women should cover their head with their hair only

Actually no. 1 Cor 11:6 is saying that a woman's hair is her glory and if its a shame for a woman to cut her hair or shave it off then her hair should also be covered. Churches over the centuries have always interpreted that passage to mean just that, by the fact that they have always had their women cover their hair.

[Celtic Baptist]

4 minutes ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

Actually no. 1 Cor 11:6 is saying that a woman's hair is her glory and if its a shame for a woman to cut her hair or shave it off then her hair should also be covered. Churches over the centuries have always interpreted that passage to mean just that, by the fact that they have always had their women cover their hair.

Quote

 

1 Corinthians 11:6 KJV

For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

 

It is a shame for a woman to have a shaved head, let her be covered by her hair.

That is my interpretation of it