Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church

[Dennis1209]

On 12/1/2017 at 8:49 PM, Last Daze said:

Escape =/= pretrib rapture

That's exactly what I'm thinking. But Jesus was talking to His Disciples, believers, and by extension to us believers, correct? If my thoughts are correct, an argument could be made that every believer may not be Raptured? I personally believe every born again Christian will be Raptured if still alive on earth when Christ comes to get His bride, supported by numerous scripture passages. I'm trying to get my head wrapped around what this verse actually means.

[Dennis1209]

On 12/1/2017 at 10:41 PM, Quasar93 said:

Jesus had just given His Olivet Discourse to a Israeli crowd that had gathered to hear Him.  The context of His message was an amlification of Dan.9:27, covering the final 3.5 years of the 7 year tribulation.  His remarkwas specifically addressed to Israel, because the Church did not exist then, because the Holy Spirit/fulfillment of the New Covenant, had not yet arrived, nor taken place yet, according to JN.7:39 AND lK.22:20, until at Pentecost, ten days after Jesus ascended into heaven, recorded in Acts 1:9 and 2:1-3.

 

 As such, Jesus remark in: Luk 21:36  Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man:" Is being counted worthy of escaping the tribulation, He told them about in His Olivet Discourse, through belief and trust in Him, that He was/is who and what He said He was/is, the Son of God, who will give whoever believes in Him, eternal life, He promised, in Jn.3:16.

 

Quasar93     

OK, that is where my confusion might be? I'll go back and re-read it again. For some reason I'm assuming Jesus is talking to His disciples and not Israel in general. If that's the case, that clears up everything.

[Daniel 11:36]

He is speaking to Israel in His discourse and before the "church" became a realty

If you understand this then you will be enlightened related to Israel's position in the coming tribulation period

[Quasar93]

31 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

OK, that is where my confusion might be? I'll go back and re-read it again. For some reason I'm assuming Jesus is talking to His disciples and not Israel in general. If that's the case, that clears up everything.

Yes, you are correct, Jesus was addressing His disciples and in my haste, I threw you off further by saying it was a "crowd," as He did in many other places.  However, what He taught His disciples, the disciples taught the Israelites, as they had not gone out into other parts of the world, until after Jesus resurrection, and final command to them in Bt.28:18.  As He stated in Mt.15:24: " He answered, 'I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.'"
 

Jesus Olivet Discourse in Mt.24, Mk.13 and in Lk.21, is a prophecy about the coming Great Tribulation God has decreed Israel to go through, in Jer.30:7 and in Dan.9:27.  None of which involves the Church that did not exist at the time He spoke those words. because the Holy Spirit had not yet arrived, according to Jn.7:39, until at Pentecost, ten days after Jesus ascended into heaven, according to Acts 1:9 and 2:1-3.  In addition to the Scriptural fact, the Church will not be on the earth during the tribulation, according to Jn.14:2-3, 38; 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Quasar93

[Last Daze]

29 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

That's exactly what I'm thinking. But Jesus was talking to His Disciples, believers, and by extension to us believers, correct? If my thoughts are correct, an argument could be made that every believer may not be Raptured? I personally believe every born again Christian will be Raptured if still alive on earth when Christ comes to get His bride, supported by numerous scripture passages. I'm trying to get my head wrapped around what this verse actually means.

Correct.  Jesus is talking to those with whom He is confirming the new covenant, and by extension, those who believe in Jesus through their word.  It is not meant only for ethnic Israel as some believe.  That's only an interpretation of convenience. 

I think it's closely related to these verses:

• I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one.   I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word.  John 17:15,20

And this one:

• I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues."  Revelation 18:4

It's not about being taken out of the world.  It's about separating ourselves from the sins of Babylon and escaping her judgments.  That's the context of "escaping" in Luke 21:36  Notice the word "therefore".

• But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly.  For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”  Luke 21:34-36

This is in keeping with the repeated call for believers to persevere in the faith, and to endure to the end.

[Daniel 11:36]

"Jesus Olivet Discourse in Mt.24, Mk.13 and in Lk.21, is a prophecy about the coming Great Tribulation God has decreed Israel to go through, in Jer.30:7 and in Dan.9:27.  None of which involves the Church that did not exist at the time He spoke those words. because the Holy Spirit had not yet arrived, according to Jn.7:39, until at Pentecost, ten days after Jesus ascended into heaven, according to Acts 1:9 and 2:1-3.  In addition to the Scriptural fact, the Church will not be on the earth during the tribulation, according to Jn.14:2-3, 38; 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8."

 

Amen

[Dennis1209]

On 12/3/2017 at 10:15 AM, Last Daze said:

Correct.  Jesus is talking to those with whom He is confirming the new covenant, and by extension, those who believe in Jesus through their word.  It is not meant only for ethnic Israel as some believe.  That's only an interpretation of convenience. 

I think it's closely related to these verses:

• I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one.   I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word.  John 17:15,20

And this one:

• I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues."  Revelation 18:4

It's not about being taken out of the world.  It's about separating ourselves from the sins of Babylon and escaping her judgments.  That's the context of "escaping" in Luke 21:36  Notice the word "therefore".

• But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly.  For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”  Luke 21:34-36

This is in keeping with the repeated call for believers to persevere in the faith, and to endure to the end.

I've read your reply several times and thinking and pondering over it. That does make a lot of sense and I think you've pretty much answered my question. Thanks Last Daze!

[Daniel 11:36]

No it does not make any sense [Revelation 3:10]

[PeterAV]

Escape means "pre-trib rapture" to the folk that do not believe their bibles and love to opinionate over it and change it.

 escape in the bible is to flee, run for your lives. Genesis nineteen :17 - 20.

Please note that Jesus does not come until the sun moon and stars signs happen first, which is clearly after the tribulation.

[Quasar93]

On 12/9/2017 at 4:00 PM, PeterAV said:

Escape means "pre-trib rapture" to the folk that do not believe their bibles and love to opinionate over it and change it.

 escape in the bible is to flee, run for your lives. Genesis nineteen :17 - 20.

Please note that Jesus does not come until the sun moon and stars signs happen first, which is clearly after the tribulation.

The very first paragraph of the OP refutes any idea of there not being the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church, according to the Scriptures.  As postd below, for your review:

>>> The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28! From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8! Where the Church is seen in heaven later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options!<<<

 

Quasar93

Edited December 13, 2017 by Quasar93