Who are the twenty four Elders around the throne of God in Rev.4:4 ?

[angels4u]

1 hour ago, WilliamL said:

I have somewhat more than half in a formatted file, will get back to you when I'm in a library on my computer. Now at home on a tablet.

Thanks

 

[Uriah]

17 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Adding to the Word ["resurrected"]??

It refers to v.35. I emphesized "resurrection" there in case you would forget about checking the context. Did you? Plainly speaking, v.25 refers to v.40  and vice versa. 

17 hours ago, WilliamL said:

The verb is better translated "completed," which can only take place when both they and us come together in one. Includes Enoch.

The KJV translates Strong's G3346 in the following manner: translate (2x), carry over (1x), remove (1x), change (1x), turn (1x).

I didn't see "completed" there. And it can't be the same as Enoch. You said the people that came out of the graves had glorified bodies. Enoch did not die and therefore he was not resurrected into a glorified body. Furthermore, he will return and then he will be killed. 

[WilliamL]

On 7/22/2023 at 8:25 AM, Uriah said:

The KJV translates Strong's G3346 in the following manner: translate (2x), carry over (1x), remove (1x), change (1x), turn (1x).

I didn't see "completed" there.

The verb root in 11:40 is teleioō. That was the verse you quoted, which does not have a G3346.

On 7/22/2023 at 8:25 AM, Uriah said:

Plainly speaking, v.35 refers to v.40  and vice versa. 

Plainly to you. But the subject of this string is the 24 heavenly elders already in heaven on thrones, with victors' crowns. Not us and others yet to be resurrected: that is, the waiting ones referred to in Heb. 9:28 when Christ "appears out the SECOND time."

In the context, Heb. 9:28 is His coming out of the sanctuary after his SECOND sacrifice "for the people" (Lev. 16:5): the sacrifice of his Adamic nature. His FIRST sacrifice, like with Aaron in the earthly sanctuary, was "for himself...and for his house" (Lev. 16:11; Heb. 9:12). These houses being the earthly and heavenly priesthoods. Christ fulfilled this double sacrifice by Himself because He uniquely has TWO natures, divine and human.

Those 24 elders of Revelation are the leaders of the heavenly/Melchizedek priesthood. Thus again there was first an earthly antitype, when David established 24 courses of priests with their leaders to serve in the earthly temple. 1 Chr. 24. David explained his act by saying "All this the LORD made me understand in writing, by His hand upon me, all the works of this pattern.” Just as Moses "made everything according to the pattern shown [him]..." Heb. 8:5; Ex. 25:40

Both of those patterns were fashioned from heavenly ones.

[Uriah]

On 7/18/2023 at 6:25 PM, WilliamL said:

There have been and will be multiple resurrections: of Jesus,

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[Uriah]

On 7/18/2023 at 6:25 PM, WilliamL said:

The resurrected OT saints on thrones will witness the slain Lamb coming "the second time" (Heb. 9:28) in the heavenly temple to fulfill the High Priestly Day of Atonement offering

 Rom 5:11

And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Uriah
higlight/underscore

[WilliamL]

9 hours ago, Uriah said:

Rom 5:11

And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

In nearly all Bibles except the KJV here, this word G2643 katallage is translated reconciliation:

1) exchange

a) of the business of money changers, exchanging equivalent values

2) adjustment of a difference, reconciliation, restoration to favour

a) in the NT, of the restoration of the favour of God to sinners that repent and put their trust in the expiatory death of Christ.

The Greek word meaning atonement in the Hebraic sense is G2435 hilastērion, often translated propitiation:

relating to an appeasing or expiating, having placating or expiating force, expiatory; a means of appeasing or expiating, a propitiation

used of the cover of the ark of the covenant in the Holy of Holies, which was sprinkled with the blood of the expiatory victim on the annual day of atonement (this rite signifying that the life of the people, the loss of which they had merited by their sins, was offered to God in the blood as the life of the victim, and that God by this ceremony was appeased and their sins expiated); hence the lid of expiation, the propitiatory

an expiatory sacrifice

a expiatory victim.

Rom. 3:25 whom God set forth as a propitiation/atonement by His blood, through faith...

Heb. 2:17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation/atonement for the sins of the people.

1 John 2:2 And He Himself is the propitiation/atonement for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

[Uriah]

14 hours ago, WilliamL said:

In nearly all Bibles except the KJV here, this word G2643 katallage is translated reconciliation:

Wording?

atonement

[ uh-tohn-muhnt ]SHOW IPA

See synonyms for atonement on Thesaurus.com

noun

satisfaction or reparation for a wrong or injury; amends.

(sometimes initial capital letter)Theology. the doctrine concerning the reconciliation of God and humankind, especially as accomplished through the life, suffering, and death of Christ.

Christian Science. the experience of humankind's unity with God exemplified by Jesus Christ.

Archaic. reconciliation; agreement.

 

Dan 9:24- Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

John 17:4- I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

The idea of Jesus will follow the patern of the priest atoning for hHimself then for the people cannot be. The priest was to provide an atonement offering for the sins of himself, then for the people. He had NO sin.

[luigi]

They are the elders of a gentle race in the song Kashmir by Led Zeppelin.

[WilliamL]

9 hours ago, Uriah said:

The idea of Jesus will follow the patern of the priest atoning for hHimself then for the people cannot be. The priest was to provide an atonement offering for the sins of himself, then for the people. He had NO sin.

Of course He had sin: OURS. Which He bore on the cross, which caused the Father to "forsake" Him. As Jesus so stated. This is fundamental Christian doctrine; do you deny it?

[Uriah]

20 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

This is fundamental Christian doctrine; do you deny it?

Have you seen anything I wrote that warrants such a thing?

On 7/23/2023 at 5:26 PM, WilliamL said:

Those 24 elders of Revelation are the leaders of the heavenly/Melchizedek priesthood.

There is no scripture to confirm this.

 

John 3:13- And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Do you deny it?

And I already posted Heb 11:40- For God had something better in mind for us, so that they would not reach perfection without us.

So it is clear that pre/post crucifixion, NOBODY has entered heaven but Jesus!