Who are the twenty four Elders around the throne of God in Rev.4:4 ?

[Quasar93]

The twenty four Elders around the throne of God, represent the twenty four courses of the Levitical priesthood, with one priest for each course seated on each of the twenty four thrones.

As recorded in 1 Chr.24:7-18. In Jer.33:17-18: "For this is what the Lord says: 'David will never fail to have a man to sit on the throne of Israel, NOR WILL THE PRIESTS, who are Levites ever fail to have before me continually to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings and to present sacrifices.'" See also 2 Sam.7 for God's promise to David.

There are many who attempt to identify them as the twelve apostles and twelve of the old testament patriarchs, but there is nothing in the Bible to support this theory or any of the others, except the one above.


Quasar93

[missmuffet]

They are the Church. Those who were raptured before the seven year tribulation.

[Daniel 11:36]

"There are many who attempt to identify them as the twelve apostles and twelve of the old testament patriarchs, but there is nothing in the Bible to support this theory or any of the others, except the one above."

 

These are the leaders of the "raptured church" .... both old and new testament 

The others are found here [Revelation 7:9-17] 

Edited December 1, 2017 by Daniel 11:36

[rdclmn72]

24 temple musicians are also mentioned.

[AdHoc]

On 12/1/2017 at 6:43 AM, Quasar93 said:

The twenty four Elders around the throne of God, represent the twenty four courses of the Levitical priesthood, with one priest for each course seated on each of the twenty four thrones.

As recorded in 1 Chr.24:7-18. In Jer.33:17-18: "For this is what the Lord says: 'David will never fail to have a man to sit on the throne of Israel, NOR WILL THE PRIESTS, who are Levites ever fail to have before me continually to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings and to present sacrifices.'" See also 2 Sam.7 for God's promise to David.

There are many who attempt to identify them as the twelve apostles and twelve of the old testament patriarchs, but there is nothing in the Bible to support this theory or any of the others, except the one above.


Quasar93

2nd Peter 1.20 forbids private interpretation. We must interpret scripture with either scripture or nature. The number 24 only appears in connection with the service to the Temple planned by David and the Tabernacle. The Church is founded on 12 Apostles. This precludes that interpretation. Let us look at the facts;
1. The 24 are Priests because they take the prayers of the saints
2. the 24 are Elders. They are older than the rest
3. The 24 already have crowns. They carried authority and rule earlier than Christ
4. The 24 already have thrones. They carried rule before Christ
5. the 24 are already sitting, but then cast themselves down before Christ
5. The 24 are already in heaven when John is called to heaven
6. The 24 are different to John. He is not one of them although he is a leading Apostle
7. In Revelation 14 the 24 Elders are CONTRASTED to the 144,000 firstfruits from among men
8. No Christian can receive his/her throne and/or crown BEFORE Jesus. Jesus must have preeminence in ALL things

Our Lord Jesus, Who sits in the Father's Throne during the Church age (above the highest heaven) now receives His throne in Revelation 4. But it is not for heaven. It is for the earth and is set up ON EARTH to judge the Nations (Matt.25:31-46). Thus, the Elders are for heaven and the Man Jesus is for the earth. But Jesus, Who created all things, created the Principalities to govern. In Job 38 the angels rejoiced when the foundations of the earth were laid. That is, angels, principalities and the heavenly Tabernacle were all there before the earth. Thus, those serving the heavenly tabernacle would truly be the OLDEST of God's creatures - Elders, with thrones and crowns. But our Lord Jesus is declared by the Father to head up all things and for every knee to bow to Him. Thus, the Ancients, or Elders, cast down their thrones and prostrate themselves. When Christians are raptured they do not sit on thrones. They do not all receive crowns. The do not prostrate themselves. They "stand" (Lk.21:36). And they do not stand before Christ's throne. They stand before the Bema - a traveling throne.

All evidence suggests that they are the 24 courses for the heavenly Tabernacle. David received instructions on the "pattern" of the Temple/Tabernacle in heaven. They would have 24 courses too.

[WilliamL]

19 hours ago, AdHoc said:

3. The 24 already have crowns. They carried authority and rule earlier than Christ
4. The 24 already have thrones. They carried rule before Christ

Shortly after His resurrection and ascension to heaven, Jesus told His disciples,

Matt. 28:18 ... “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth."

There is no evidence at all that these 24 came into their heavenly authority before Jesus came into His. On the contrary, they could not have been redeemed from their sins until after Christ's resurrection and ascension unto the Father.

[AdHoc]

3 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Shortly after His resurrection and ascension to heaven, Jesus told His disciples,

Matt. 28:18 ... “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth."

There is no evidence at all that these 24 came into their heavenly authority before Jesus came into His. On the contrary, they could not have been redeemed from their sins until after Christ's resurrection and ascension unto the Father.

If a man is crowned and enthroned, and 24 other men who already possess crowns and thrones, abdicate in his presence, then what else shall we say? The Lamb has neither been crowned not found worthy to open the scrolls. This only happens when the Elders have cast down their crowns, left their thrones and prostrated themselves.

I gave evidence dating to Job 38 and the laying of the earth's foundation. This you have not mentioned. I stated that there existed Principalities and Powers BEFORE Revelation Chapter 4. What are these for if not for government? And we both know that the authority given to our Lord Jesus, is not to overthrow human government - let alone angelic government. The Holy Spirit, in inspiring all the New Testament writers only speaks of Satan, a "Prince", stripped of His rank right at the end of the age. Our Lord Jesus commanded us to SUBJECT ourselves to wicked men as He has installed them into human government. The Elders had crowns and thrones in the presence of Jesus. Men only receive crowns when Christ returns and JUDGES (2nd Tim.4:8)

Consider this; You say that that all authority is given Jesus, but Luke 4 gives Satan possession of the earth's kingdoms and their glory. This must be true to make it a temptation. But our Lord only rips these Kingdoms from Satan in Revelation 11 which deals with events at the very end of the age. Is it not then clear that our Lord Jesus has all authority, but used it for something else. Or did He fail the martyrs?

But now I have a question for you: In the scene in heaven we have Christ, 24 Elders, 4 Living creatures, the angels and John. According to the grammar, the 24 Elders carried the prayers of the saints (5:8). If the 24 Elders are saints, on what authority do they carry the prayers of the saints? Is not Jesus our High Priest? Are we not to pray in His Name - not some other saints? Why was John not one of them? Where were the saints that prayed? And if you say that the song came from the Elders, but are different to John AND the 4 Living Creatures, who are the 4 Living creatures that they sinned?

Okay. That's more than one question, and I don't expect you to answer. But you can see that the evidence makes then priests and kings, while the 4 Living Creatures have been around since Ezekiel. The only difference is that they had wheels because it was a divine judgment OF EARTH. In Revelation it is a divine judgment of heaven, thus the extra pair of wings. Sinners? I think not. Saints? I think not. There is not a wit of evidence that they are sinners and saints. All evidence suggests the 24 Elders of an angelic priesthood serving the heavenly Tabernacle and administrating heaven.

[MichaelSnow]

On 11/30/2017 at 11:52 PM, missmuffet said:

They are the Church. Those who were raptured before the seven year tribulation.

https://textsincontext.wordpress.com/2023/07/12/revelation-4-no-rapture-of-the-church/

[Diaste]

On 6/12/2023 at 4:22 PM, AdHoc said:

The Elders had crowns and thrones in the presence of Jesus. Men only receive crowns when Christ returns and JUDGES (2nd Tim.4:8)

Only? So there is a prohibition in scripture of receiving a crown before the 2nd advent? And it would apply to anyone and everyone, no matter where and when?

And isn't Jesus God, preexistent and the creator? 

 

[George]

I believe the 24 Elders in Heaven are simply ELDERS in Heaven! 

Oftentimes, we want to define something that is not defined in Scripture and if it's not defined in Scripture, we should leave the text as it is and recognize that it's 24 Elders!