Question for literal interpretation of Revelation

[Guest shiloh357]

3 minutes ago, listener24 said:

@Diaste @shiloh357 @GandalfTheWise  @Daniel 11:36 @missmuffet @7trumpets @Rick_Parker

How would you see different "literal" options when it comes to the numbers? Like the 144000, the 1000 years etc. 

Could an interpretation that accepts there is a certain number of elects, but not necessarily 144000 (and not 139999, or 144001) still be "literal"?

Again, could this be said also for the very rounded numbers? (like 144000). Looking for the meaning of 144000.

Or is it more likely that God makes His decision on who is saved and who has a place of honor, just to obtain cool and rounded numbers? 

The Bible always uses rounded numbers.  That has nothing to do with taking it literally.   I mean, the Bible says that Jesus fed 5,000.  That is probably more of an estimate than someone actually counted heads and arrived at exactly 5,000.   Same with large numbers in other places.  The numbers given as to the size of armies are usually just rounded or estimates.    That has no bearing on whether the core meaning of the text should be taken literally.   You're looking for the meaning the author supplies.  

There are no special or symbolic meanings of 144,000 or 1,000  they're just numbers and unless the Bible TELLS you a particular object is symbolic, it is unwise to assign symbolism to it, yourself.   The reader does not get to decide what is or is not symbolic.  The author does that, and if the author doesn't assign symbolism then we do not understand the text or object in the text as symbolic.

Sometimes a rock is just rock.  Sometimes, a number is just a number.  It's important that don't try so hard to make everything symbolic.

[listener24]

19 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

There are no special or symbolic meanings of 144,000 or 1,000  they're just numbers and unless the Bible TELLS you a particular object is symbolic, it is unwise to assign symbolism to it, yourself.   The reader does not get to decide what is or is not symbolic.  The author does that, and if the author doesn't assign symbolism then we do not understand the text or object in the text as symbolic.

 

I see your point, makes sense.

What puzzles me a bit is that, while to the human eye a super-rounded number like 144000 or 1000 makes a lot of sense, with our human way to measure time for instance, and it seems more interesting and majestic than a random 875 or 439, to an Omnipotent being who has to consider into His decision free will, Souls' destiny, righteousness, physical variables, historical variables, etc. etc., it seems unlikely that the result of His decisions is a number that's very cool to look for the human eye. Especially considering that humans measure time based on a very arbitrary approach that I'm not sure is adopted in Heaven: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time

It's like the probability to obtain 10000000000 in picking a random number between 0 and 9999999999999999999. Except, it's gazillion times more unlikely, because the variables involved are far more. Unless the Lord's primary decision criteria is to obtain a certain number and the other criteria are subdued to that, in that case it's not anymore a random occurrence; but in this case, it must be explicitly in His plan to obtain a rounded number (in the human conventions system), otherwise is to be treated as a random variable. 

But don't get me wrong, I don't exclude that.

I don't have a clear position on the issue, nor I'm particularly interested on feeling sure about one. Thanks for explaining that point of view.

 

Edited December 5, 2017 by listener24