Politics, religion and the reason why the Christian Church was formed.

[Dennis1209]

On 12/9/2017 at 12:27 PM, Yowm said:

Not sure where we are headed here but the thought that comes to mind is if Christians become apathetic towards politics it would be like the mind ignoring the needs of it's body, besides, we don't want to end up sitting in a No. Korea type concentration camp where the Gospel is strictly forbidden. Politics is just the visible manifestation of the invisible struggle that goes on behind the scenes...we should at least pray.

I've recently obtained 2 cents, before my wife finds out and takes it from me, I want to toss it in here.  Eph 6: 12

[Mike Mclees]

Life begins once Jesus becomes the reason you live it

That's an absolute truth.   God bless  Missmufet

 

Edited December 11, 2017 by Mike Mclees

[Justmemyselfandi]

3 hours ago, Yowm said:

Maybe a bit more bible reading would be in order...

2 Corinthians 10:3-5 NASBS
[3] For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh, [4] for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. [5] We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,

 

Are we not doing just that by preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christian and by doing so undermine the very fabric of Satan's lies? People seem to have the mind  that the only way of fighting is the direct assault., when it is the sappers who take away the refuges that the minions of Satan depend on to marshall their strength. Satan can not count on those that have came to God and we, by reaching out with the Word of God are doing just that.

God has a plan and that plan includes us to do what he has sent us to do, but if we, overstep the authority he has given us, are we in effect undermining that plan  I say we might and I also say it is supremely arrogant to simply assume God will go along with us, because we feel compelled to act, because we see no other actions we are comfortable with.

I have heard arguments from fellow Christian's that God would have warned us through the Holy Spirit if we were wrong, but I say that when we propose to do something on our own are we not saying to God that were have no need of his guidance and he merely withdraws himself from us, in order for us to hit reality face first like the rest of the world, who thinks such a way.

Edited December 11, 2017 by Justmemyselfandi

[Justmemyselfandi]

11 hours ago, Yowm said:

I'm not speaking from what one would do, but from what one 'ought' to do. 

You started this thread asking questions, we answer, and now you get kind of punchy?

I apologize If my words were curt.

[Justmemyselfandi]

2 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

What you are actually saying is that Christians do not have the ability to change things in the world for the better or affect the encroachment of evil.  That God is the only one who can affect any change in that respect.    Why do you think the Apostles were commanded to go out into the entire world and preach the Gospel?  Was the only by-product of that salvation?  Is the Gospel of Christ so weak and ineffectual that all it can do is "save" people and affect no other change in the world at all?  That would be your actual position, although not well, or directly stated.  I never stated, that as Christians we should force anyone to do anything.  You can paint abortion and gay rights as something that nobody in this country could change in any way, but the fact is that if every person in this country that claimed to be a Christian had stood their ground and said in one collective voice that abortion is murder and has no place in this country, Roe vs. Wade would have failed.  That is not "forcing" anyone to do or not do anything.  It is simply upholding an inalienable right given to everyone in this country in the Constitution, including unborn children.  But people sat on their hands and we now have 10 million unborn children murdered in this country every year.  Do you think that is a good thing?

Apathy is never the way to go, for anyone.  You can try and disguise it as something else, but your actual position is one of apathy.  I can't possibly do anything about it, so who cares. 

Studying the Bible is great, but you will not grow past a certain point unless you have sound teachers to help you get further along the path.  Doing it on your own won't get it.  No one grows on their own.

There must be a disconnect somewhere in here, because I've been saying that we should restrict ourselves to the duties a functions of what Jesus gave us  and not enter into the realm of politics, which is now the bloodbath between the Republicans and the democrats. This was the entire argument and here you talk about The Apostles doing just what Christ told them to do.  That is spread the word of God and the message of salvation.

Please point out, at any time, anywhere in this entire thread where I said anything about not doing what Christ tasked us with.

You are right in saying that Christians can not do anything without the Holy Spirit behind them. That is what I truly believe, because I think it is the Holy Spirit that reaches out to those people who we talk to. The holy Spirit is the one who places the right words in our mouths as it did in the Bible, when all those people spoke in tongues. I'm I wrong here. Is there something I've missed that anyone can show me in scripture that I am wrong?

Please don't degrade my assertion with negative remarks on supposed assumptions you think I meant.  I never said anything to do with the message of God being weak., but the personal desires of his followers to go beyond that which we were tasked to do and try to police up the world, instead of reach out to those lost souls within it. It is these excursions that I don't think the Lord supports  since it might push more people away from Christ than gathers to him.

 

Rowe Vs: Wade was settled in a court of law, not public opinion and Abortion is more than murder. It is human sacrifices to the God of Hedonism and with everyone in Ameri standing up an screaming till their heads came off could not sway those who sat, at that time on the Supreme court.  Even the legislators could not do anything after that because you can't legislate morality.  The legislature are just as much a bunch of overpriced lawyers as those who set on the SC and they have not done anything, in the intervening years but fence this law in.  Gay marrage was the same thing. It had nothing to do with public opinion and certainly nothing to do with the laws of God.

 

If you want to get rid of Abortion, all you have to do is give the embryo a voice in all of this by giving them the vote, which would be afficiated by a person of legal authorty that holds life dear and the Democrats will run from their present stance as if their hair was on fire.

 

You can call being an obedient servant and not overstepping your place in his plans apathy all you wish, but you are leaving out one essential element and that might just be the will of God.  What does he say about all of this? We can't just assume that he will be good with it, just because you have good intentions. As they say the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Politics are replete with good intentions and without the approval of God, that is all that will become of it..

Who says that I haven't got a sound teacher and who is it that makes the decision on soundness of anything?

 

I've been listening to Martin Lloyde-jones. Specifically his sermon on May 30 1965 addressed Return to Christ.  He speaks volumes about what  the purpose of the Christian Church is and he speaks out about us trying to be a social or morale movement or a political one.

 

This man, with all his eloquence and his passion for Christ is phenomenal. I wish I could have met him, face to face.  He certainly had The Holy Spirit thundering through him.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Justmemyselfandi

[Guest Butero]

15 hours ago, Justmemyselfandi said:

They are not at odds with God. They are at odds with man himself since what they propose is not sustainable. It is in every way a depletion of every facility of society that will allow any society to prosper and thrive.  Man's society, not Gods. God's society is beyond this world  and those who wish to attend that society need to understand that,  The Christian Church was set up to save souls out of this world not to police it up as if those within it dob't have a choice in in matter and they need to be able to make that choice.

Those that are addicted to this world are the ones that are entrenched in the battle to save it for the glory of their own ideology because they can't see anything beyond this place. We, as Christians are responcible for our own actions and not the actions of other and if we take our eye off the ball we will be just as vulnerable to the excesses of this world as those who reject Christ. Temptation is all around us and the pull of political activism is a danger of pushing us to act in a manner that does not reflect Christianity.

The indulgences of the Democratic party can't be countered by holding signs and in front of their faces and screaming at them at the top of their lungs. It is through Gods glory and the power of the Holy Spirit that we can reach out to them. Anything else will just be us as human beings following the same pattern of activity that they have  embraced . How do we stand out enough to show the light of Jesus Christ to the world if our actions are indistinguishable from those who we oppose?

Like I said before, I gave you my feelings on this matter, and I stand by what I said.  Arguing back and forth won't accomplish anything, so if you wish to know where I stand, you can re-read my earlier posts on this subject.  My mind is made up, and my course is set.  

[Justmemyselfandi]

7 hours ago, Butero said:

Like I said before, I gave you my feelings on this matter, and I stand by what I said.  Arguing back and forth won't accomplish anything, so if you wish to know where I stand, you can re-read my earlier posts on this subject.  My mind is made up, and my course is set.  

First of all. We are not arguing. Arguing is an uncontrolled savage bickering that happens when one or both parties are so at odds with each other that they've failed to listen.  I don't know about you but I'm looking for something I can use to either validate my feelings on this or have them proven wrong.  I thirst for information that will bring me closer to understanding. I'm not just bringing this up because of my health.

 

I look at it this way. If a father has two boys who are 4 years apart and the older obeys his father and the younger does not. If the father walked in on his older boy punishing his younger sibling, would he be pleased at the older boy for confiscating his authority to punch his children or would he chastise that older child  and say to him. Vengeance is mine!

You can go ahead and do what you think you need to do. and If you aren't concerned with this question I guess you'll not be contributing to this thread any more, but I would like you to ponder this.  What is the success ratio between Christians bringing sinners to God through the work of the holy spirit and those same sinners bringing social change to the world by dabbling in politics?

I would submit to you that we have had phenomenal success in doing what God tasked us to do some 2000 years ago as we have the backing of the Holy Spirit in which to guide us. We have not had even a modicum of success in bringing social change through the political system and in fact we have lost ground. Of all that has been written here about the sickness and insanity of this world, what have we accomplished  and why is it that we've accomplished so little in the political arena when in bringing souls to Christ it is the exact opposite?

Maybe it is not tasked to us to do this and maybe it is apart of Gods plan that the casual observer see what is happening in this world and that is why so many are thirsting for something more than what is here. How will they know who has a better way when they see the Children of this world and the children of God screaming and yelling  at each other and supporting people on either side who are falling into disgrace on an equal measure?

 

In this world but not apart of this world is something that stands out as more than a catchphrase to me to use against Atheists in a debate and to me that also stands for not letting the cruelty of this world enter us through hate of what it does  and insite us to do our own vengance seeking when God stated so plainly stated whose vengeance it was.

 

That is the sum and total of my point here. If you are determined to go beyond that, then by all means tread on and see where it leads. I will pray for you.