What is the Mark of the Beast

[Heleadethme]

11 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Moses walked a hill at one hundred and twenty,  so at sixty five you still just a pup.  

Well at 60 I would like to have that gift too if I had my druthers.........but some have a gift of weakness instead, the Lord in His wisdom.   

[Mike Mclees]

2 hours ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

NO we arent. Because the antichrist has not shown up yet and the 7 year treaty has not been signed (Daniel 9:27)

At least the man of sin has not been revealed yet. Pre tribulation . Where in scripture is that supported. Also where in scripture is it said there are pre trib saints who do not have to suffer and there are tribulation saints that missed the first train out so they suffer?

I know Dan 9:27 Dan 7:25. I want you to tell me where is there arrogant believers that don't go through any suffering for Christ because they go the right church that believes that. Go to the Middle East and pick up the severed heads of Christians and ask them about that  peace treaty and that they are suffering no tribulation for Christ. Go back to the early church  and tell them its to early for tribulation and suffering for Christ yet while there lifeless bodies are dragged out of the coliseums.  There is nothing about suffering tribulation only in the tribulation period. Great Tribulaion begins mid week of the peace when the antichrist commits the Abomination of desolation. Jesus said "then shall there be great tribulation".   You don't have a free ticket to escape. I invite you now to go to Rev 15 see the true bride of Christ who got the victory over the antichrist after the suffered great tribulation and not loved there life to the death

Edited December 27, 2017 by Mike Mclees

[Heleadethme]

1 hour ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

There is a pre tribulation Rapture. The pre tribulation church was never meant to suffer through the reign of Antichrist. Sure there will be many martyrs for Christ during the 7 year Tribulation but those will be people who were NOT saved before the Trib but had to come to the truth the hard way. 

I havent forgotten my history. YES the church has suffered tribulation but that was nothing compared to the final 7 years. And that is NOT specifically what Jesus was speaking of.

Rev 3:10

Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The proper sense here is not about being preserved through the Trib but being saved from it. And that is how the greek translates as well.

2 Thess 2

7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. (<--- the church being taken away BEFORE the appearance of antichrist)

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

1 Thess 4

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

People often misinterpret that as meeting the Lord in Jerusalem but that is wrong. Note it says Meet the Lord IN THE AIR, meaning IN HEAVEN.

There are more proofs as well but I dont have much time

Hmm.......just wondering what is the word of His patience.......why the need for patience.......enduring what to the end......?  There is tribulation, but then there is the wrath of God which is something else.......we are not appointed to wrath but we are appointed to suffer for His name.......Jesus promised that in this world we shall have tribulation, but to fear not because He has overcome the world.  Scriptures in Revelation speak about saints coming out of great tribulation having made their robes white.  The prophecy of the two witnesses also give us a picture of enduring tribulation before being caught up.

Consider whether there might be at least a couple of things involved with the restrainer being taken away........one is the people casting off restraint (which Jesus warned against in Matt. 24:44-51), and the other is God's glory departing the temple....His Spirit departing which is what leaves them wide open to deception/delusion/error.

[Heleadethme]

On 12/25/2017 at 11:43 PM, brakelite said:

Hi. First, I agree with you re adultery. And so does my church. But I am not going to defend the sins and wrong attitudes of individuals within my church. That many individuals have mistaken views and practices within the church doesn't mean the church agrees with them. Nor do I. That so many tolerate and gloss over the sin is not right. That does not however provide me with an excuse or reason to leave. There are such sins in every denomination. Where would I go? And if I dug deep enough, likely a lot worse. But it isn't my work to dig into the private lives of individuals and use them as the basis for my decisions. It is what the church teaches as Bible truth. I have much I could and do protest against as far as behaviour and lifestyles among the people in my church. But it isn't my work to uproot tares. I will continue to uphold Bible truth...and if it offends those next to me then that is on them. Tolerating adultery among church members without counselling and clear instruction in what the scriptures teach is wrong...and wherever this is happening, even if the pastor himself is guilty, there needs to be open rebuke. God will have a holy church when He comes to take it home. 

I know someone in the SDA........and also know someone else who rented a room in the house of an SDA person........believe me there are unclean spirits in the SDA church......however much they may in mouth say they are against certain sins, whatever they are doing there is not having an effect....the people are not being healed and cleansed.  I don't want to repeat the unseemly things that I came to know of that go on with SDA people......no better than the world, shocking.  The Adventists are much more worried about what day is what, and what to eat or not eat, than they are about iniquity.....those minor things are just like  fig leaves of self-righteousness covering their worse kinds of unrighteousness. Please, please, I entreat you to seek the Lord about your church and whether it is time to come out of her so that you do not receive of her plagues and sins......meaning to hopefully not receive of worse sins  than you had to start with.

[Mike Mclees]

I just want to say has anyone read Rev 15. anyone?. Lets look at

Rev 15: 1,2  ¹ And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. ² And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. ^{3 Re 15:1-3}

The angles have the bowls of Gods Wrath to punish the earth for unbelief. But just before they do John sees The true Bride of Christ standing on a sea of glass being honored of  God. and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name

Now paul says the church is taken up to heaven. Pre- Trb says this happens at the signing of the 7yr peace agreement with Israel and its enemies. But that is just what they say and no smoking gun that it will happen then. The word peace means peace. They also say the Temple must be rebuilt. so there would be no wrath and tribulations  during this time.

Look at Dan 7:25 now.

⁵ And he the (antichrist) shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they (the church)shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. ( which is interpreted 3 1/2yrs)    Da 7:25

So we see a peace agreement Dan 9:27

⁷ And he shall confirm the covenant^f with many ( Israel's enemies) for one week: 9 interpreted 7 yrs) and in the midst of the week (3 1/2 yrs) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

So we have 3 1/2 yrs peace and 3 1/2 yrs  Great tribulation of the saints at the hand of the antichrist.

Now lets see what Jesus said ch 24 Matt,

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Mt 24:15

Matt 24:21

¹ For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. ²² And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shorten

Now what we have is the abomination of desolation mid week 3 1/2 and then Great tribulation final 3 1/2yrs

This will happen because the antichrist is at full power he will declare he is god. He can't share that with Jesus so he seeks to destroy all that is Christian.

Rev 15 the church is in heaven so the catching away is after suffering the antichrist because scripture dose not support 2 raptures.

 

[frienduff thaylorde]

3 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

Well at 60 I would like to have that gift too if I had my druthers.........but some have a gift of weakness instead, the Lord in His wisdom.   

Yes , the LORD gives us these earthen vessles.    When old age and infirmities are allowed upon it,  even that is a realization that the POWER in all things

IS OF GOD.   not us , not in the physical nor spiritual.   and harships and sufferings are the tool in which cause HUMILITY .   paul knew it .

Many are the afflictions of the righteous but out of them all THE LORD delivers us.  AND even on the sickbed HE MAKES that bed still.

As david lay dying ..............HE KNEW the LORD had not abandoned HIM.   Nor will he any who suffers .    So while many wont make it to the age MOSES did

STILL GOD is with them and doing all to work all things , all sufferings , all persecutions , together for the good of those who love Him.

David suffered the loss of much.   and HOW it drew Him only closer to GOD.   a total dependence on GOD and not SELF.   yes KNOWN to GOD alone

is what is best for each individual.  and believe me , we would rather have been chastened , then LEFT on our own

God knows , man don't .  GOD KNOWS what is best for us all, far better than we THINK we know.   AND that is a fact .

[frienduff thaylorde]

3 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

Hmm.......just wondering what is the word of His patience.......why the need for patience.......enduring what to the end......?  There is tribulation, but then there is the wrath of God which is something else.......we are not appointed to wrath but we are appointed to suffer for His name.......Jesus promised that in this world we shall have tribulation, but to fear not because He has overcome the world.  Scriptures in Revelation speak about saints coming out of great tribulation having made their robes white.  The prophecy of the two witnesses also give us a picture of enduring tribulation before being caught up.

Consider whether there might be at least a couple of things involved with the restrainer being taken away........one is the people casting off restraint (which Jesus warned against in Matt. 24:44-51), and the other is God's glory departing the temple....His Spirit departing which is what leaves them wide open to deception/delusion/error.

AND WHAT CAUSES PATIENCE.     TRIBULATION.    Read james, paul,  etc.   THEY KNEW .    You right sister .

Their is something very interesting about the wording of the two witnesses.    And guess what GOD gave one of the prophets of old the same message.

The enemies being burned with fire is NOT LITERAL.  we wont see men burning up from two witnesses from real fire from their mouths.

NO,  the reason the enemies will burn.................IT is because they rejected the message of repentance that these preached.  AND THE LORD GOD

will burn them at the end.    The more we read old test , the more parts of revelation makes perfect sense .  

[frienduff thaylorde]

57 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said:

I just want to say has anyone read Rev 15. anyone?. Lets look at

Rev 15: 1,2  ¹ And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God. ² And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. ^{3 Re 15:1-3}

The angles have the bowls of Gods Wrath to punish the earth for unbelief. But just before they do John sees The true Bride of Christ standing on a sea of glass being honored of  God. and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name

Now paul says the church is taken up to heaven. Pre- Trb says this happens at the signing of the 7yr peace agreement with Israel and its enemies. But that is just what they say and no smoking gun that it will happen then. The word peace means peace. They also say the Temple must be rebuilt. so there would be no wrath and tribulations  during this time.

Look at Dan 7:25 now.

⁵ And he the (antichrist) shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they (the church)shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. ( which is interpreted 3 1/2yrs)    Da 7:25

So we see a peace agreement Dan 9:27

⁷ And he shall confirm the covenant^f with many ( Israel's enemies) for one week: 9 interpreted 7 yrs) and in the midst of the week (3 1/2 yrs) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

So we have 3 1/2 yrs peace and 3 1/2 yrs  Great tribulation of the saints at the hand of the antichrist.

Now lets see what Jesus said ch 24 Matt,

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Mt 24:15

Matt 24:21

¹ For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. ²² And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shorten

Now what we have is the abomination of desolation mid week 3 1/2 and then Great tribulation final 3 1/2yrs

This will happen because the antichrist is at full power he will declare he is god. He can't share that with Jesus so he seeks to destroy all that is Christian.

Rev 15 the church is in heaven so the catching away is after suffering the antichrist because scripture dose not support 2 raptures.

 

Pre trib HAD to invent TWO comings of the LORD.  they were being misproven so often.   SO instead of repenting ,  they grew worse

and received what THEY THOUGHT was new revelation of TWO comings.  When really , it weren't .   never did the early church preach TWO comings.

IT was preached as THE DAY of the LORD , ONE COMING . ONE.     ONE.   

[Heleadethme]

56 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

AND WHAT CAUSES PATIENCE.     TRIBULATION.    Read james, paul,  etc.   THEY KNEW .    You right sister .

Their is something very interesting about the wording of the two witnesses.    And guess what GOD gave one of the prophets of old the same message.

The enemies being burned with fire is NOT LITERAL.  we wont see men burning up from two witnesses from real fire from their mouths.

NO,  the reason the enemies will burn.................IT is because they rejected the message of repentance that these preached.  AND THE LORD GOD

will burn them at the end.    The more we read old test , the more parts of revelation makes perfect sense .  

Amen!   Romans 5:3  And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience

Yes,  it's wonderful how the book of Revelation is all confirmed in the old testament.........and yes, I agree that it's not a literal fire......burning later at the judgment, and also maybe having to do with the word of God from their mouths burning up, so to speak, the false doctrine and lies being spewed by those enemies of God........Elijah fire!

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 minute ago, Heleadethme said:

Amen!   Romans 5:3  And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience

Yes,  it's wonderful how the book of Revelation is all confirmed in the old testament.........and yes, I agree that it's not a literal fire......burning later at the judgment, and also maybe having to do with the word of God from their mouths burning up, so to speak, the false doctrine and lies being spewed by those enemies of God........Elijah fire!

Onward in the LORD peoples , onward in Him.    The days long foretold are upon us .    Praise the LORD and fear not what man can do.  

Yes sister we too shall enter into tribulation , doing what many others have long done before us,  only this will be the great tribulation hour .

Be blessed and praise the Lord.