Why Creation Is Right and Evolution Is Wrong.

[vlad]

13 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

An all knowing God does not change His mind.   To say otherwise is irrational.  If you know all things, and have a perfect knowledge, then you don't make errors in judgment and have to change your mind.  

We were created perfect, but we fell from that because of our sin.

 

Irrelevant.  Humans are not Gods' pets. 

We are not trying to be perfect, we headed the other direction.

 

I know Him.  I don't know everything about Him.  But I know Him.  

 

God cannot lie.  God cannot murder, God cannot die, God cannot cannot commit a sin of any kind.  God cannot compromise His holiness.   God cannot create imperfection.  God cannot deny His essential nature.   Lots of things cannot do.

You say: "God cannot murder"  There is just a different word. He can destroy, right? There are numerous examples of God's wrath in the OT and NT.

[Guest shiloh357]

4 hours ago, vlad said:

All those arguments are based on HUMAN understanding and reasoning. human logic (Rational/Irrational).

So is Evolution, but you don't seem to have a problem with human understanding, reasoning and human logic when it comes to assigning Evolution to God. 

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That is not applicable to God. What may seem rational to humans may be irrational to God and the other way round.

God created us with the ability to reason and be logical.    God transcends logic, but God is never irrational or illogical. 

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Do you agree with this? Or you think you possess the same reasoning as God?

I just think it is interesting that God you don't have a problem having the same reasoning as God so longs it agrees with something as silly and irrational as Evolution.

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 It is really irrelevant  to analyse the ways of  a supreme being and explain his ways scientifically.

But that is exactly what Christians who believe in the fantasy of Evolution do. 

 

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I always say "may be" in my arguments as I do not know the ways of God.

You would know the ways of God if you read your Bible.

 

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WHAT MAKES YOU THINK YOU KNOW THE WAYS OF GOD BETTER?

Because I read AND believe the Bible; all of it.

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Is it your scientific degrees or are you blameless? You say: "An all knowing God does not change His mind". Who told you that?

Any thinking, rational, intelligent person knows that a God who is all-knowing doesn't make mistakes in judgment that He needs to change later on. 

We change our minds when we find out something we didn't know before and are able to make a better decision.   Saying that God changes his mind means that God is limited and imperfect in knowledge, which means He would not be omniscient.

Since knows everything perfectly, He doesn't make errors in judgement that He needs to change; nor is he limited in knowledge.

[Guest shiloh357]

2 hours ago, vlad said:

You say: "God cannot murder"  There is just a different word. He can destroy, right? There are numerous examples of God's wrath in the OT and NT.

No. That is wrong.   Murder is the wanton act of taking innocent human life on purpose.  Destroying is not murdering, not even close.   God's wrath is not murder.

[Guest shiloh357]

16 hours ago, one.opinion said:

I've given 4 examples in this thread. Would you like me to list them again?

Sure, go for it.

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Although I personally agree with you on this point, it is certainly debatable according to Scripture. First, from Exodus 32, after the golden calf, the King James version reads "And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people." In 1 Samuel 15, God was displeased with Saul and said "It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the Lord all night." Regarding the city of Nineveh, Jonah 3: 10 says "And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not." Personally, I think this is a misleading interpretation, but I can certainly understand why others would disagree with me.

It's called an anthropomorphism.  

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It might be a good idea to converse and learn about opinions and beliefs of others before deciding they simply don't know God because they disagree with you.

It has nothing to do with disagreeing with me.  It's about saying things and holding positions about God that someone who really knows Him would not hold to given that they directly contradict His most essential revelations about Him and his character.  

It is no different than when we someone we know is accused over something we know to be false on the grounds that we know that person well enough to know that the accuser could not make had they known the person as well as we do.

[101G]

21 hours ago, vlad said:

O.K. How do you explain rudimentary organs? That is some animals became aquatic and some took to land. This change is the evolutionary change of the species

God can do anything. he gave an ass a human voice, he allowed a serpent to walk, and talk. and there are certain fish today with fins that are used to walk on dry ground. see, your term "became" can be a form of an adaptation over a long period of time. 

Edited January 7, 2018 by 101G

[vlad]

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

So is Evolution, but you don't seem to have a problem with human understanding, reasoning and human logic when it comes to assigning Evolution to God. 

God created us with the ability to reason and be logical.    God transcends logic, but God is never irrational or illogical. 

I just think it is interesting that God you don't have a problem having the same reasoning as God so longs it agrees with something as silly and irrational as Evolution.

But that is exactly what Christians who believe in the fantasy of Evolution do. 

 

You would know the ways of God if you read your Bible.

 

Because I read AND believe the Bible; all of it.

Any thinking, rational, intelligent person knows that a God who is all-knowing doesn't make mistakes in judgment that He needs to change later on. 

We change our minds when we find out something we didn't know before and are able to make a better decision.   Saying that God changes his mind means that God is limited and imperfect in knowledge, which means He would not be omniscient.

Since knows everything perfectly, He doesn't make errors in judgement that He needs to change; nor is he limited in knowledge.

You say: "You would know the ways of God if you read your Bible." How about Ways of God in "Far above man's' (Is. 55,8,9) and in (Rom. 11,35) Will you read it in the Bible?  Or you have some new interpretation?

Then you did not like the allusion to pets in the previous message. But Jesus Christ has a stronger allusion THE POTTER AND THE POT.

You understand perfect things created by God as final. We observe that all things are changing. Is it not rational (your term) to accept the idea that God's things are perfect FOR THE CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME  and then He creates another perfect thing. And He may destroy the previous thing. I do not agree that God creates only static things or unchangeable programs.

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, vlad said:

You say: "You would know the ways of God if you read your Bible." How about Ways of God in "Far above man's' (Is. 55,8,9) and in (Rom. 11,35) Will you read it in the Bible?  Or you have some new interpretation?

God has given us enough light about Himself that we are without excuse.   We cannot know all there is to know about God, as He is beyond our ability to know everything about Him.   But the Bible is still inexhaustible in the things we CAN know.  And we know enough about Him to know that an all-knowing, all-powerful God doesn't use Evolution.

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Then you did not like the allusion to pets in the previous message. But Jesus Christ has a stronger allusion THE POTTER AND THE POT.

Our relationship with our pets is not analogous to our relationship with God.   

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You understand perfect things created by God as final. We observe that all things are changing.

Things change and adapt to a changing environment.   That is baked into creation.   God engineered creation to adapt.    That's not the same as saying that lizards change into birds.   God created everything perfectly according to their own kind.   There are several varieties of dogs, but they are still dogs.  Dogs did not evolve from non-dog organisms.

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Is it not rational (your term) to accept the idea that God's things are perfect FOR THE CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME  and then He creates another perfect thing.

No, when God look at creation on day six, after He created man, He said, it was "very good."  The words in Hebrew are tov meod and they refer to a state of perfection that cannot be improved upon. 

And now you are adding "For the certain period of time"   which is applying the very human reasoning you complained about before.   You are trying add something that is not in the Bible through the agency of your own human reasoning.   Like I said before, you claim I am adding human reasoning about God, but you have no problem applying human reasoning to God in order to support a human construct like Evolution.   That's called "hypocrisy."

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And He may destroy the previous thing. I do not agree that God creates only static things or unchangeable programs.

Actually science is based on things staying the same.   You can't do science if everything  is always changing.   Astronomers depend on the stars and planets, black holes, nebulae and other outer space phenomenon behaving and moving in certain patterns.    They can't make predictions if everything is changing.

Science depends on predictability. You can't do science without it.

Life is always changing and adapting, but nothing is evolving. 

[vlad]

7 minutes ago, vlad said:

You say: "You would know the ways of God if you read your Bible." How about Ways of God in "Far above man's' (Is. 55,8,9) and in (Rom. 11,35) Will you read it in the Bible?  Or you have some new interpretation?

Then you did not like the allusion to pets in the previous message. But Jesus Christ has a stronger allusion THE POTTER AND THE POT.

You understand perfect things created by God as final. We observe that all things are changing. Is it not rational (your term) to accept the idea that God's things are perfect FOR THE CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME  and then He creates another perfect thing. And He may destroy the previous thing. I do not agree that God creates only static things or unchangeable programs.

You say:"You would know the ways of God if you read your Bible". May be you really know the ways of God. I can not disprove that. And there is a theoretical possibility. But then you are the first and may be the only  person after Jesus Christ to know the ways of God. 

[Guest shiloh357]

2 minutes ago, vlad said:

You say:"You would know the ways of God if you read your Bible". May be you really know the ways of God. I can not disprove that. And there is a theoretical possibility. But then you are the first and may be the only  person after Jesus Christ to know the ways of God. 

No, I am not the only one.   The ways of God are knowable through His Word.   He is not hiding from us in dark corners or playing hide-and-go-seek with us.   Truth by nature is apparent and out in the open.  God is revealing Himself, as well,  in the natural world that bears His signature as its Creator.

[vlad]

1 minute ago, shiloh357 said:

No, I am not the only one.   The ways of God are knowable through His Word.   He is not hiding from us in dark corners or playing hide-and-go-seek with us.   Truth by nature is apparent and out in the open.  God is revealing Himself, as well,  in the natural world that bears His signature as its Creator.

There is a difference "knowable" and "You would know the ways of God if you read your Bible." "Would  know" and "knowable" are worlds apart.