Church and abusive marriages

[Heleadethme]

17 minutes ago, TickledPinkinChristWoot! said:

No, God doesn't ordain bad marriages being He is omniscient and omni-benevolent. 

And perhaps you're not married. Or you don't realize that thinking someone has to stay married to someone they separated from because that someone was trying to beat them to death on a regular basis, means that survivor of their abuse has to never marry again in order to please God. 

There are plenty of Christians who are re-married and are blessed in that union. God forgives. God also does not tell us to remain yoked to unbelievers. In fact, he states the opposite. We shall not be. An unbeliever, someone who is not in Christ, is someone who abuses their spouse and ultimately that violent spouse has potential in their deviant violent behavior to violating the 6th commandment.  

Such a one as that isn't in Christ. Even if they call themselves Christian. Thinking they are is to say the Holy Spirit of God compels that sin of spousal abuse. And that is blasphemy.

You seem to think a woman, for example though men are also victims of spousal abuse, has to remain married to a husband who assaults her physically. Or if she leaves, has to remain separated and unmarried till she dies. You're wrong. That's legalism. And that's not the doctrine of the new covenant. God forgives. Even divorce.  

 

People are not omniscient.....and they enter into marriage by their own free will, which the Lord ratifies.  God does not forgive willful sin........someone keeps on willfully sinning there is no more sacrifice for sins.  The ways of the world and flesh are contrary to the ways of God, and sexual purity is paramount with Him........adulterers and fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of heaven, any more than idolaters and murderers etc.  What's so terrible about living singly anyhow, if it came to that......Paul said in his opinion they would be happier to remain single and free of all the concerns that come with marriage.  We need to lift our vision higher and realize we are not living for this life, we are living to please God and be accounted worthy of eternal life.

[appy]

A person can NOT be both an abuser and have Christ like actions and qualities at the same time. Any individual who claims to know and serve Jesus but abuses his or her spouse and / or family is a hypocrite of the worst kind. Abuse is not just limited to physical damage but also emotional distress by using abusive language or behavior with specific intent to demean, intimidate, threaten and tear down. A victim should never be accused of setting an abuser off. There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for that kind of behavior. NONE. There is absolutely no justification for physically or emotionally abusing someone.

Spousal abuse violates not just one or two things in scripture, but several and thus the abuser has already abandoned the marriage through thought, words, deed and actions. The hard and sad part of the church getting involved is that an abuser is so cunning, that they manage to convince admonishers that there is change when in reality they are not really committed to change. They just are very good at lying and getting admonishers off their back about it. They can put on a very convincing counterfeit repentance to appease admonishers.

The fact is, that if an abusive person truly, truly desires change; it will happen long before admonishers get involved or a divorce is necessary. They either can not or are not willing to control their emotions and the call to repentance. In this situation a divorce is very valid and necessary, because the abuser is resistant to and refuses to exercise self control and true repentance. Doesn't mean the victim is going to remarry, but that divorce is necessary for the victim and the children's safety by removing all means of contact and getting away from the abuser completely.

[TickledPinkinChristWoot!]

On 1/7/2018 at 10:38 PM, Butero said:

The Bible actually teaches that if we are unequally yoked to an unbeliever in marriage, if that person is content to remain married to us, we are to remain married to them.  If they choose to leave, then the believer is not in bondage in that situation.  The Bible does not list abuse as grounds for divorce and re-marriage, and I am going by the New Testament.  The Old Testament appeared to be much more liberal when it comes to divorce and re-marriage than the New Covenant.  Of course, that is just because it was misapplied, but it is New Testament teaching that reveals that divorce and re-marriage for any cause other than fornication is adultery.  

Legalism isn't a Biblical word.  It is amazing how it is thrown around all the time.  You kind of contradicted yourself in your last paragraph.  First, you state that it is wrong to say that a woman who is a victim of abuse, if she separates, must remain unmarried till she dies.  How is that wrong, if it is not grounds for divorce according to the New Covenant?  Then you say that "God forgives.  Even divorce."  If a person needs forgiveness for divorce, they sinned.  You don't need forgiveness if you did nothing wrong.  I am not arguing with you over whether or not their is forgiveness for divorce and re-marriage.  There is only one unpardonable sin, blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, but we are still talking about sin, and willful sin.  The person is doing something they know is not allowed in scripture with the hope that they will find forgiveness after they sinned.  

Nor is Trinity a biblical word and yet it is used quite often. 

Question: "What does the Bible say about legalism? How can a Christian avoid falling into the trap of legalism?"
 

[Guest shiloh357]

On 1/7/2018 at 2:56 PM, TickledPinkinChristWoot! said:

No, God doesn't ordain bad marriages being He is omniscient and omni-benevolent. 

 

Just a side note, God is not omni-benevolent.  That is not biblical and the Bible makes no such claims about God.   Just an aside...  Carry on.

[TickledPinkinChristWoot!]

On 1/7/2018 at 4:22 PM, Heleadethme said:

People are not omniscient.....and they enter into marriage by their own free will, which the Lord ratifies.  God does not forgive willful sin........someone keeps on willfully sinning there is no more sacrifice for sins.  The ways of the world and flesh are contrary to the ways of God, and sexual purity is paramount with Him........adulterers and fornicators will not inherit the kingdom of heaven, any more than idolaters and murderers etc.  What's so terrible about living singly anyhow, if it came to that......Paul said in his opinion they would be happier to remain single and free of all the concerns that come with marriage.  We need to lift our vision higher and realize we are not living for this life, we are living to please God and be accounted worthy of eternal life.

Someone who keeps sinning willfully is not in Christ. That is why there are so many passages in the Bible that tell us those who are in Christ do not make a habit of sinning. And those that are redeemed in Christ are no longer sinners because the spirit of God is not in them. 

The Hebrews 10 verse that says there remains no sacrifice for sins for those who keep sinning means, those who claim Christ and yet think eternal salvation is a license to sin are not only not in Christ, 1 John 3, but there is no other sacrifice for sins than Jesus. So they're doing themselves a disservice making such a display while claiming themselves to be Christian. When they are not so. As God's word says of those type persons. 

1 John 3:6-7 But you know that Christ appeared to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as Christ is righteous.

 

Romans 6:14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace. 15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law, but under grace? By no means!

 

There is no reason to live single after leaving an abusive spouse. The mere fact that that one is abusive, which doesn't always show itself during the dating stage that can last years often enough, means they are not in Christ. God does not ordain a spouse to be physically assaulted in a union of marriage. 

And being that abuser is therefore an unbeliever we are entitled to remove ourselves from their presence being we are in Christ. Some abusers are even more violent when the object of their assault clings to Christ and their faith during the attack. We cannot lead such a one to Christ. And we should not ever have to risk our life in order try. Because that is not Biblical . 

 

"None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him." Psalms 48:7

[TickledPinkinChristWoot!]

12 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Just a side note, God is not omni-benevolent.  That is not biblical and the Bible makes no such claims about God.   Just an aside...  Carry on.

Do you believe God is perfect? 

[TickledPinkinChristWoot!]

On 1/8/2018 at 10:15 AM, appy said:

A person can NOT be both an abuser and have Christ like actions and qualities at the same time. Any individual who claims to know and serve Jesus but abuses his or her spouse and / or family is a hypocrite of the worst kind. Abuse is not just limited to physical damage but also emotional distress by using abusive language or behavior with specific intent to demean, intimidate, threaten and tear down. A victim should never be accused of setting an abuser off. There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for that kind of behavior. NONE. There is absolutely no justification for physically or emotionally abusing someone.

Spousal abuse violates not just one or two things in scripture, but several and thus the abuser has already abandoned the marriage through thought, words, deed and actions. The hard and sad part of the church getting involved is that an abuser is so cunning, that they manage to convince admonishers that there is change when in reality they are not really committed to change. They just are very good at lying and getting admonishers off their back about it. They can put on a very convincing counterfeit repentance to appease admonishers.

The fact is, that if an abusive person truly, truly desires change; it will happen long before admonishers get involved or a divorce is necessary. They either can not or are not willing to control their emotions and the call to repentance. In this situation a divorce is very valid and necessary, because the abuser is resistant to and refuses to exercise self control and true repentance. Doesn't mean the victim is going to remarry, but that divorce is necessary for the victim and the children's safety by removing all means of contact and getting away from the abuser completely.

Question: "What is the biblical perspective on domestic violence?"

Question: "What does the Bible say about spousal/marital rape?"

 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

11 minutes ago, TickledPinkinChristWoot! said:

Do you believe God is perfect? 

Yes but "omni-benevolent"  isn't biblical.  It is often understood as God being "all-loving."  But God is not all-loving. The Bible never makes that claim about God.  

If you mean something different by that term, I would be interested in knowing what you mean by that.

[TickledPinkinChristWoot!]

27 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Yes but "omni-benevolent"  isn't biblical.  It is often understood as God being "all-loving."  But God is not all-loving. The Bible never makes that claim about God.  

If you mean something different by that term, I would be interested in knowing what you mean by that.

Omni, means , eternally. Benevolent means, kind, good, loving. 

Mark 10:18And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Question: "What does it mean that God is omnibenevolent?"

 

 

 

1 John 4:8 

⁸ Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

Edited January 10, 2018 by TickledPinkinChristWoot!

[Guest shiloh357]

3 minutes ago, TickledPinkinChristWoot! said:

Omni, means , eternally. Benevolent means, good.

Mark 10:18And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

 

 

 

 

 

No, "omni" means "all."   Omnipotent means "all powerful."  "Omniscient" means "all knowing."   Benevolent does not merely mean good unless you are speaking in humanitarian terms. Benevolence or goodness, theologically, with respect to God is charitableness, kindness, love, etc.   But God is not "all" any of that.   He is also a God of wrath, discipline, judgment, and punishment.