Legalism

[Justin Adams]

14 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

WE should be teaching and reminding each other to keep JESUS sayings.

NOT trying to justify why we don't .    I teach KEEP JESUS sayings.     I remind KEEP JESUS sayings

but some try and fault to how we cant keep them.   because THEY wont keep them , not all anyway.

JESUS is the only one who can save us. SO that is WHO I will POINT to and HIS sayings .    But not all do that .  instead they try and justify why we cant .

That SHOWS exactly where our heart TRULY IS.    I know I have made errors,   but REPENT when you do.  NEVER JUSITFY why you do as you do.

This is so well said. Thank you!

[Heleadethme]

5 hours ago, simplejeff said:

YHWH says a few things about law breakers vs sinners. Everyone , realize, is a sinner.  What did the law breakers do though?

"Men of Isra’el! Listen to this! Yeshua from Natzeret was a man demonstrated to you to have been from God by the powerful works, miracles and signs that God performed through him in your presence. You yourselves know this. 

This man was arrested in accordance with God’s predetermined plan and foreknowledge;

and, through the agency of persons not bound by the Torah,

you nailed him up on a stake and killed him!"

As long as we become slaves (bound) to righteousness and not to the letter of it.

[Justin Adams]

1 hour ago, brakelite said:

Making up rules that need not be? That is the trinitarian doctrine, of whatever flavour or colour your particular interpretation may be. Legalism to the very core...and pure Romanism.

Yeah. Rome really did a number on all of Christendom by taking so much and weaving a set of LEGALISTIC rules. Any doctrine of rome's blood-soaked path can be summarily dismissed - want 'doctrine' read your scriptures for yourself. So many Scofield Bibles were sent free to Baptist and other seminaries, that acres and acres of pastors were infected with Darby's pre-trib ideas.
Thousands of people brought up with a bible that was EDITED in favor of man-made doctrines.
This is so sad. So annoying, and so hard to convey to people whos heart is hard and unmovable. 

Rome is the worshiper's nightmare, because it becomes self evident that by adhering to rome's dictates they are actually subjecting themselves to rome's authority. Why they cannot read those plain words and understand them beats me! 
 

Rome's curses against protestants:

“I . . . knowing that no one can be saved without that faith which the Holy Catholic Apostolic Roman Church holds, believes, and teaches . . . I [firmly] believe all the articles that she proposes to my belief, and I reject [and condemn] all the articles that [which] she rejects and condemns, and I am ready to observe all that she commands me. And especially I profess that I believe . . . everything else that has been defined and declared by the Sacred Canons and by the General Councils, especially by the Holy Council of Trent and by the Ecumenical Vatican Council [Council of the Vatican]. With a sincere heart therefore, and with unfeigned belief [faith], I detest and abjure every error, heresy, and sect opposed to the said Holy Catholic and Apostolic Roman Church.”

“I also undoubtingly receive and profess all those other things which have been delivered, defined and decreed by the Sacred Canons and the General Councils, and especially by the sacrosanct Synod of Trent; and at the same time all things contrary thereunto, and all heresies of whatsoever sort, condemned, rejected, and anathematized by the Church, I in the same way do condemn, reject, and anathematize. This true Catholic Faith, out of which no one can be saved, which I now profess of mine own accord, and truthfully hold, I do promise, and vow, and swear, most constantly to retain and confess whole and inviolate until the last breath of my body; and I will take care, as far as in me lies, that it shall be held, taught, and preached by those under my government and care.”

“By the authority of Almighty God, and of His holy Apostles Peter and Paul, we strictly forbid under the pain of anathema, that anyone shall draw away these present virgins, or holy nuns from divine service to which they have devoted themselves under the banner of chastity or that anyone purloin their goods, or hinder them possessing them in quiet. But if anyone shall dare attempt such a thing, let him be accursed (maledictus) at home, and abroad; accursed in the city and in the field; accursed in waking and sleeping; accursed in eating and drinking; accursed in walking and sitting; accursed in his flesh, in his bones, and from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head let him have no soundness. May the malediction come upon him which the Lord hath laid on the sons of iniquity by Moses in the Law. May his name be blotted out from the book of the living and not written with the just; may he have his portion and lot with Cain the fratricide, with Dathan and Abiram, with Ananias and Sapphira, with Simon the sorcerer and the traitor Judas, and with those who have said to God: Depart from us, for we will not know Thy ways. May he perish in the day of judgment; may perpetual fire devour him with the Devil and his angels, unless he make restitution and come to amendment.”

[Justin Adams]

12 minutes ago, Heleadethme said:

As long as we become slaves (bound) to righteousness and not to the letter of it.

...if you are a slave, then you will follow your Master's commands...

[Heleadethme]

1 hour ago, Justin Adams said:

This is so well said. Thank you!

Jesus came to teach and show us a more excellent way than the old way of the letter..........His sayings and commands taught and demonstrated what that Way would look like, the fruits of the more excellent way.......how I understand it, that His sayings weren't intended to be more letters to kill, but that He came teaching them in the new way of the Spirit, and we likewise are to follow them in the new way of the Spirit.

Edited January 21, 2018 by Heleadethme

[Heleadethme]

12 minutes ago, Justin Adams said:

...if you are a slave, then you will follow your Master's commands...

Yes brother, just not in the old way of the letter. 

[Justin Adams]

The scriptures are not null and void by the Passion of our Lord Yeshua.

He expects obedience. It is really simple to give honor and glory to the Father.

[Heleadethme]

1 hour ago, Justin Adams said:

The scriptures are not null and void by the Passion of our Lord Yeshua.

He expects obedience. It is really simple to give honor and glory to the Father.

Amen brother.  And He expects us to learn obedience the same way He did.  Yes, it is simple in a way.......though it might not appear simple on the outside how we work out our salvation in the details of our lives...we are a peculiar people and our lives can be hard to explain.  Here is how I understand it......we obey the Holy Spirit and live out His nature within us, as it is progressively unveiled, through the breaking of our carnal nature/flesh (who falls on the Rock will be broken).  Following His leading, where and how He leads us on the race that is marked out for each one, and try not to take too much thought about it (don't let left hand know what right hand is doing), and that way Christ is glorified rather than ourselves.  Thankfully it doesn't all depend on us, this is the reason we will lay our crowns at His feet.  It is the Lord who leads us through His word and the learning of it, He walks us through the chastisement and suffering by which we learn obedience, and a lot depends also on our gifts and calling...........etc.  Our part is to keep looking to Him, be humble and teachable and walk faithfully according to what we receive, striving and labouring to enter into sabbaoth (promised land), and little by little, ceasing from our own works (dead/sin). 

[Wayne222]

4 hours ago, brakelite said:

At least the Sabbath commandment is in scripture...it is your personal opinion that claims it doesn't apply to Christians, because nowehere does it say it applies only to Jews. Remember, the Gentiles met on Sabbath in response to Paul's preaching.

As to the trinity. Yes, we believe the Godhead is comprised of 3 persons. The Father, the source of all things...the Son, through whom all things were created, and the Spirit of God or Christ by whom the power and life of God is dispensed throughout creation. But the trinity doctrine, as taught and made a test of fellowship and salvation throughout Christendom, goes way beyond what the Bible teaches and is an assumed doctrine and a man-made definition of the nature of God which all admit is a mystery. No man by searching can find out God. No creature can understand the Almighty to perfection. The finite man cannot comprehend infinity. Therefore in discussions about the trinity, about the nature of Christ, and the holy Spirit, are manifestations of gross presumption. Yet we make the belief in the trinity doctrine a test of fellowship. Now THAT is legalism. 

If I knew what you meant by the term trinity, I may or may not agree with you...everyone has different interpretations as what the trinity actually is. From the days of Athanasius until now all discussion and debate has been an attempt to define the incomprehensible. Thousands have been put to death for not professing belief in a formula which even its professors could not comprehend, nor state in terms that anybody else could comprehend. And yet even on this very forum it is made a test or criteria for being a Christian! That is way way more legalistic than any person could ever be in recommending obedience to a specific commandment of the Most High. 

Making up rules that need not be? That is the trinitarian doctrine, of whatever flavour or colour your particular interpretation may be. Legalism to the very core...and pure Romanism.

I did not know your a Sabbath keeper.  Yes it's commandments of the old covenant. I don't believe in the Sabbath rest for new covenant Christians. You believe it If you want to. You will be judged for putting a yoke on Christians on the last day. Too bad this board has fallen to this. 

[Justin Adams]

54 minutes ago, Butero said:

That way my point.  The word legalism isn't in the Bible, so why do we care about the definition of something that doesn't exist?

Yes, this is quite sad really. It is a straw horse for the 'freedom in grace' people to saddle with misconceptions and ride upon into a lawless sunset. All the while arguing that the commandments are done away with even though Saul said...'..God forbid, I uphold the law'. And just to prove it to them he took the Nazarite vow.