Will The " Holy Place " Really Be Holy ?

[Unfailing Presence]

3 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Could be.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, as I'm writing from memory. But, where does it say the 'man of sin' allows the Jew's to build their Temple? The Antichrist signs a seven year 'covenant' with many to include Israel. My thinking from scripture is Israel has no choice but to sign the 'covenant' because a "consuming scourge' is heading their way. I seem to recall the Antichrist allows them to resume the sacrifices, it seems as if they were doing that in the not so distant past? 

I get the impression the only thing holding back the Jews from erecting their 3rd Temple, is its correct and proper location over the 2nd Temple. 

With my age and memory I could be easily wrong on this though.

Any attempt by Israel to lay even one stone on the Temple Mount today would be lighting a fuse to a powder keg .

The extreme violence that everyone knows would result is the thing  " holding back the Jews from erecting their 3rd Temple " .

It surprises me that you do not seem aware of the extreme volatility involved in the Temple Mount  ?

As it stands today Temple  tourists caught making any attempt to pray openly on their  temple tour are  immediately dragged away by police .

Only Satan's man will be able to bring  " peace "   to this situation . 

[Dennis1209]

16 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

Any attempt by Israel to lay even one stone on the Temple Mount today would be lighting a fuse to a powder keg .

The extreme violence that everyone knows would result is the thing  " holding back the Jews from erecting their 3rd Temple " .

It surprises me that you do not seem aware of the extreme volatility involved in the Temple Mount  ?

As it stands today Temple  tourists caught making any attempt to pray openly on their  temple tour are  immediately dragged away by police .

Only Satan's man will be able to bring  " peace "   to this situation . 

Oh I'm well aware of the problems alright!

However, there's mounting credible evidence accumulating and starting to convince the Jewish authorities that the Temple Mount is not located where 'tradition' has it. The 'traditional' Temple site and Wailing Wall has pretty much been proven to be a Roman fort to house a legion of Roman soldiers to overlook Jerusalem. There's much scriptural and archaeological evidence to support Solomon's Temple 600' South and in the city of David. Just follow the running water. 

It's also not stated that the 3rd Temple has to be a brick and mortar Temple. Why couldn't it be a tent or tabernacle to resume sacrifice immediately, as they desire to do?

[Revelation Man]

On 1/20/2018 at 9:03 AM, Unfailing Presence said:

When Jesus speaks of " holy place " during the tribulation , is He saying there will once again actually be the physical presence of God with the Jews in the holy of holies as there was in Solomon's Temple when the high priest entered in once a year ?

The power of the physical presence being  so Almighty that a rope had to be attached to the high priest when he entered , should he screw up and be struck dead his body could be retrieved without further loss of life . 

Or is Jesus implying that this will be  a place that will be called  " holy " by the Jews of the tribulation in their mistaken belief , but in actuality  having no physical presence of God ?

 

                                                                         " When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet                                                                                                                                                                           stand in the HOLY PLACE . "        ( Matthew 24 : 15 )

 

People don't know how to put the clues together because they allow in CLUTTER. This is the reason the Prophets separated themselves and went into he Wilderness to hear God.grow close to God. 

The facts are very evident. It is Holy because the Jewish peoples have repented BEFORE the Day of the Lord comes upon them, so says Scriptures.

Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

So God sends the Two-witnesses back to turn Israel back to God BEFORE the Day of the Lord (Gods Wrath which starts at the First Seal). 

Israel repents and starts serving Jesus Christ/God. They worship Jesus in the Temple of God and some maniacal/hateful/spiteful Rabbinical leader (who becomes the False Prophet) stops all worship of God in the Temple and places an Image of the European President in the Temple, thus that is the Abomination of Desolation. Thus it is defiled. You can not defile that which is not holy. 

Daniel says the Daily is taken away, the word SACRIFICE was added by the English translators, thus the Daily is what Daniel was doing when Gabriel came unto him during Prayer at the EVENING OBLATION (Tribute/Honoring). Its called the Daily Oblation or the Evening and Morning Oblation, instead of 2300 Days its 1150 Evenings and Mornings.

So they took away the Daily tribute to SOMETHING and since they have repented by this time lets guess who they are honoring, paying tribute to or worshiping............JESUS CHRIST their Messiah.

The Temple is Holy and gets defiled, just like Jesus who CAN NOT LIE says !!

Addendum:  2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Edited January 22, 2018 by Revelation Man

[Unfailing Presence]

4 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

21 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

Any attempt by Israel to lay even one stone on the Temple Mount today would be lighting a fuse to a powder keg .

The extreme violence that everyone knows would result is the thing  " holding back the Jews from erecting their 3rd Temple " .

It surprises me that you do not seem aware of the extreme volatility involved in the Temple Mount  ?

As it stands today Temple  tourists caught making any attempt to pray openly on their  temple tour are  immediately dragged away by police .

Only Satan's man will be able to bring  " peace "   to this situation . 

Oh I'm well aware of the problems alright!

However, there's mounting credible evidence accumulating and starting to convince the Jewish authorities that the Temple Mount is not located where 'tradition' has it. The 'traditional' Temple site and Wailing Wall has pretty much been proven to be a Roman fort to house a legion of Roman soldiers to overlook Jerusalem. There's much scriptural and archaeological evidence to support Solomon's Temple 600' South and in the city of David. Just follow the running water. 

It's also not stated that the 3rd Temple has to be a brick and mortar Temple. Why couldn't it be a tent or tabernacle to resume sacrifice immediately, as they desire to do?

If you look at the long historical muslim record of hijacking  religious sites of other faiths and turning them into mosques  , no one does it better . 

They are very accurate . 

They did not build that mosque on the Temple Mount based upon a best guess . 

And it was not ground under a roman fort they were obsessed with building upon .

They wanted the spot were Abraham committed to sacrificing his son as God told him , and they knew the Jews had it right  .

[Unfailing Presence]

6 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

People don't know how to put the clues together because they allow in CLUTTER. This is the reason the Prophets separated themselves and went into he Wilderness to hear God.grow close to God. 

The facts are very evident. It is Holy because the Jewish peoples have repented BEFORE the Day of the Lord comes upon them, so says Scriptures.

Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

So God sends the Two-witnesses back to turn Israel back to God BEFORE the Day of the Lord (Gods Wrath which starts at the First Seal). 

Israel repents and starts serving Jesus Christ/God. They worship Jesus in the Temple of God and some maniacal/hateful/spiteful Rabbinical leader (who becomes the False Prophet) stops all worship of God in the Temple and places an Image of the European President in the Temple, thus that is the Abomination of Desolation. Thus it is defiled. You can not defile that which is not holy. 

Daniel says the Daily is taken away, the word SACRIFICE was added by the English translators, thus the Daily is what Daniel was doing when Gabriel came unto him during Prayer at the EVENING OBLATION (Tribute/Honoring). Its called the Daily Oblation or the Evening and Morning Oblation, instead of 2300 Days its 1150 Evenings and Mornings.

So they took away the Daily tribute to SOMETHING and since they have repented by this time lets guess who they are honoring, paying tribute to or worshiping............JESUS CHRIST their Messiah.

The Temple is Holy and gets defiled, just like Jesus who CAN NOT LIE says !!

That does not hold water from a Christian perspective .

Once you have Jesus you have  no need for any " holy place "   because you have the only one who is holy  . 

That is  why we as Christians  neither have ever had a " holy place "    or desire a " holy place " .

Jesus will occupy the millennial Temple after the tribulation but  the gates of hell will not defile or desecrate that Temple , and there will be no need for a " holy place " with Jesus 

there , for He is holy .

[Dennis1209]

20 minutes ago, Unfailing Presence said:

If you look at the long historical muslim record of hijacking  religious sites of other faiths and turning them into mosques  , no one does it better . 

They are very accurate . 

They did not build that mosque on the Temple Mount based upon a best guess . 

And it was not ground under a roman fort they were obsessed with building upon .

They wanted the spot were Abraham committed to sacrificing his son as God told him , and they knew the Jews had it right  .

Well U.P. I'll disagree with that just a bit. 

Not one stone was left upon another at the Temple site after A.D. 70, from probably retrieving all the melted gold, and as Jesus foretold. There are eyewitness accounts and historical accounts of the Temple stones being removed and taken and used for other construction in the area. That makes logical sense. Because nothing was left above ground at the site, and because of the diaspora, continuous construction and modifications and time, the actual true site of Solomon's Temple was lost to history. 

The current suspected remains of the Wailing Wall are at best tradition of men and best guesses. Same with the Dome of the Rock. Just my opinion based on everything I'm reading and the facts and finds that are coming to light. Again, I could be wrong along with those finding the discoveries, time will tell. And I suspect the true site will be found through archaeology discoveries.

Edited January 22, 2018 by Dennis1209

[Revelation Man]

4 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

That does not hold water from a Christian perspective .

Once you have Jesus you have  no need for any " holy place "   because you have the only one who is holy  . 

That is  why we as Christians  neither have ever had a " holy place "    or desire a " holy place " .

Jesus will occupy the millennial Temple after the tribulation but  the gates of hell will not defile or desecrate that Temple , and there will be no need for a " holy place " with Jesus 

there , for He is holy .

Yes you can still have a Temple of God, Jesus isn't lying. Neither is Paul who says he will stand in the most Holy Place. You seem to confuse the Church and Israel like a lot of people do. The Church will be in Heaven, the Temple of God will be built again before Israel repents, once Israel repent the Temple is cleansed.  The Little Horn defiling the Temple is shown in Daniel ch. 8.

Daniel 8:11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily [sacrifice] was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down. 12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily [sacrifice], and the transgression of desolation (Abomination of Desolation), to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Verse 14 is wrong, the word should not be day, in the Hebrew text there are TWO WORDS there hence we get two numbers in STRONG'S when checking it. The Hebrew word EREB (6153) means DUSK and the Hebrew word BOQER (1242) means MORNING so we have 1150 Days or 2300 Evenings and Mornings. Not 2300 Days !! This fits into Gods time frame of 1260 Days that the Beast troddens under foot the holy place just as Rev. ch. 11 says. 

God deals with Israel in a whole different manner than with us. God Himself is the Husband of Israel, Jesus is married to the Church. You do understand that God still can not be looked on lest men would die. Jesus is God, the Holy Spirit is God bit the Father has the FULLNESS OF THE GLORY !!

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by Revelation Man

[Unfailing Presence]

35 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

1 hour ago, Unfailing Presence said:

That does not hold water from a Christian perspective .

Once you have Jesus you have  no need for any " holy place "   because you have the only one who is holy  . 

That is  why we as Christians  neither have ever had a " holy place "    or desire a " holy place " .

Jesus will occupy the millennial Temple after the tribulation but  the gates of hell will not defile or desecrate that Temple , and there will be no need for a " holy place " with Jesus 

there , for He is holy .

Yes you can still have a Temple of God, Jesus isn't lying. Neither is Paul who says he will stand in the most Holy Place.

I never said there would not be a Temple , in fact I said there would be ? 

What I said is that with the Messiah present on earth  the   there would no possible need for a "holy place " , for anyone  ?

That is why  you can't name a single need for having a " holy place " with Jesus in your presence .

Do you desire to go to a  " holy place "  ? 

 

 

 

 

[Unfailing Presence]

1 hour ago, Dennis1209 said:

Well U.P. I'll disagree with that just a bit. 

Not one stone was left upon another at the Temple site after A.D. 70, from probably retrieving all the melted gold, and as Jesus foretold. There are eyewitness accounts and historical accounts of the Temple stones being removed and taken and used for other construction in the area. That makes logical sense. Because nothing was left above ground at the site, and because of the diaspora, continuous construction and modifications and time, the actual true site of Solomon's Temple was lost to history. 

The current suspected remains of the Wailing Wall are at best tradition of men and best guesses. Same with the Dome of the Rock. Just my opinion based on everything I'm reading and the facts and finds that are coming to light. Again, I could be wrong along with those finding the discoveries, time will tell. And I suspect the true site will be found through archaeology discoveries.

The  Muslims took over the site with their mosque over a 1000 years ago for a very good reason 

They were much , much , more knowledgeable & much closer to  the   site than anyone around for last few hundred years at least . 

And if you know anything about muslim takeover of other faiths religious sites they do not make mistakes .

Their whole purpose in taking over the religious site is to rub the nose of the vanquished in the excrement .

If they had taken over the wrong place they would have been laughed out of Jerusalem to this day , and the Jews would be laughing at them from the grounds of their new Temple on the proper site . 

I suggest you might read up on the long detailed  history of muslim takeover of other faiths religious sites and you will better understand .

[Dennis1209]

13 minutes ago, Unfailing Presence said:

The  Muslims took over the site with their mosque over a 1000 years ago for a very good reason 

They were much , much , more knowledgeable & much closer to  the   site than anyone around for last few hundred years at least . 

And if you know anything about muslim takeover of other faiths religious sites they do not make mistakes .

Their whole purpose in taking over the religious site is to rub the nose of the vanquished in the excrement .

If they had taken over the wrong place they would have been laughed out of Jerusalem to this day , and the Jews would be laughing at them from the grounds of their new Temple on the proper site . 

I suggest you might read up on the long detailed  history of muslim takeover of other faiths religious sites and you will better understand .

I'm not ignorant of Muslim history. I suspect the answer to those questions will be resolved in the not too distant future.