WHAT IS THE FALLING AWAY

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Sister said:

After Christ's departure, ...the churches were set up by the apostles. With this authority, they laid the foundation of the gospel of Christ as long as time could permit.  They could not stay, as their mission was to go out to the gentiles, so they appointed ministers to tend to the flock.  They sent letters, and kept feeding the flock, checking in on them every now and then, and sending other brethren to them.  The church has been given the gospel, and in that gospel are all the instructions given by Christ.  All the letters were passed on to all the churches so that not one church was without.

As time went by, when John, the youngest apostle who was old now and also the last apostle, wrote the last letter to all the churches, ....the church had already allowed the wolves in.  These wolves in sheep's clothing starting twisting the very foundations first given.  In Johns letter to the seven churches, God harshly warns them about what has happened, and to repent.  Since then, many more false apostles have infiltrated the true gospel of Christ, and have mingled in nicely with the flock.  The duty of the flock is to check out all the instructions that Christ gave, and be not led away to fables and doctrines of men.  This has not stopped, but continues until even today.  When those who are hungry for truth go to their local church, they are expecting to be fed truth.  Because they trust their pastors so much, they don't bother to check things out themselves, but become lazy.  Their duty is to test all things whether it is from God or not.  Not all these pastors are appointed by God, for they have come in through the back door, and not through the true Shepherd who is the Word of God.

If one is sincere in his walk, he will want to know all things written in the scriptures.  If he is lazy, he will depend on someone else to give him doctrine.

Of all the people I have come accross, not associated with the church scene, I noticed they all received the same doctrine.  Some know more than others, and some of us may get things wrong at times, but if the spirit is true and willing, with a repentant heart, the Holy Spirit will teach direct from the scriptures.  The holy spirit will guide, correct, and keep feeding as long as we are eating this bread that comes from heaven.  Christ made this promise and gave us all the warnings.  The only way to check is against the scriptures. 

All those wolves, who infiltrated the churches back then and carried on today, will have the flock taken off them.  The flock will be scattered, and if their foundation was weak...built with lies upon lies, they will soon discover that their very own pastor and church deceived them.  They have only themselves to blame so, after the let-down, they are going to need some more fuel to carry on until the end.  The true doctrine, they did not receive, has to be corrected, so they are going to need some faith now, and go with what little they know.

I wouldn't call the flock who were deceived "doomed', but they definately don't have an advantage.  Christ is so merciful that he will give them a last chance to prove their faith, and this is why the big test is coming, to make things right and purify their robes.

 

 

Jesus will be coming for those who are filled with oil - representing the Holy Spirit. This means people who are in constant communication with Him - who spend TIME with Him. In other words, the opposite of "lukewarm." The lukewarm will be left behind. They are the ones you must be writing of. Those who are hot will be expecting His coming and will be "taken out of the way" and escorted to where Jesus is.

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Unfailing Presence said:

So if it is not the saved " falling away "  , by definition it can only be the lost .

These being the only two types of people on earth . 

Where exactly does a hell doomed  person " fall away " to ? 

As you say this " happening now "   it was happening yesterday ,  it was happening 2000 years ago , and it will happen tomorrow .

To say the lost must first be lost makes no sense .

An exercise in redundancy . 

I heard one preacher say, "where will I scare them off to? Hell number 2, or hell number 3?"

There is only one hell, and unsaved people are already on their way there. I think I disagree with you here. Why can't someone that was once "on fire" for God grow cold, quit attending church, quit praying, and quit reading His word? And if they did this, would they not have fallen away from being close to God? (However, I don't think Paul's intent was a significant falling away; I think it was a significant departing of the saints as in the rapture.)

[Sister]

3 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Jesus will be coming for those who are filled with oil - representing the Holy Spirit. This means people who are in constant communication with Him - who spend TIME with Him. In other words, the opposite of "lukewarm." The lukewarm will be left behind. They are the ones you must be writing of. Those who are hot will be expecting His coming and will be "taken out of the way" and escorted to where Jesus is.

iamlamad

Those who are hot can only be the 144K, for these are the only ones sealed, before the two witnesses come, and before the first angel sounds.  These are Christ's firstfruits, the first ones harvested, I believe at the 7th trump.  Can explain later, but look at this for now;

 Revelation 11:1   And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

  Revelation 11:2   But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
 

 

 

[iamlamad]

13 hours ago, Steve_S said:

Except that all of the bibles since the KJV have not copied it, only the YLT and NKJV have directly translated it as "falling away." Most translate it as apostacy or rebellion. The actual definition of the greek word is more in line with "forsake" or "defect."

Ultimately, you can use "departed" and equate that with forsake or defect. There is no context in which that word simply means "departed" in a non-rebellious manner, though.

Yes, in fact, there IS a context: the very theme of Paul's passage: His coming and the gathering of the saints. When the rapture takes place, will there be a significant "departing?" You know there will.

[iamlamad]

1 minute ago, Sister said:

iamlamad

Those who are hot can only be the 144K, for these are the only ones sealed, before the two witnesses come, and before the first angel sounds.  These are Christ's firstfruits, the first ones harvested, I believe at the 7th trump.  Can explain later, but look at this for now;

 Revelation 11:1   And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

  Revelation 11:2   But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
 

 

 

Sorry, Sister, but your chronology is off. The 144,000 will not be born again at the time of the rapture, so will be left behind. It is my belief that when they see that the rapture was real, and happened (Perhaps it will be visible?) they will turn to Jesus Christ then, and be sealed at that time. It will be JEWS worshiping in the new Jewish (Hebrew) temple. 

What will happen to cause the city to be trampled by Gentiles for 42 months? I believe it will be the man of sin arriving in Jerusalem just a few days before the midpoint of the week. He will arrive with his Muslim (Gentile) armies.

[Heleadethme]

8 hours ago, simplejeff said:

Realize that this is probably not understood correctly,  since the Apostles and disciples who were ekklesia who knew JESUS and were trained BY JESUS expected JESUS to return in their lifetimes ,   eagerly awaiting Him and looking to the Father Daily , and the Father did not tell them they were wrong , no ,  and this has been so ever since then as well. 

...alluding to a personal application to some of those scriptures, as well as a historical/corporate sense.....reminds me of where it says in Psalm  62, "One thing God has spoken, two things have I heard."  

[Heleadethme]

32 minutes ago, Sister said:

iamlamad

Those who are hot can only be the 144K, for these are the only ones sealed, before the two witnesses come, and before the first angel sounds.  These are Christ's firstfruits, the first ones harvested, I believe at the 7th trump.  Can explain later, but look at this for now;

 Revelation 11:1   And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

  Revelation 11:2   But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
 

 

 

Here is something to put in the pot with this as well.......Israel being our ensample has twelve tribes, likewise the church/New Jerusalem has twelve tribes in a spiritual sense which the apostles will rule...the different tribes I believe are probably referring to gifts/callings etc.  The 144 thousand alluding to the the city New Jerusalem.....the bride, the church.  In Revelation 21 it is measuring, describing the city/temple......which has 12 gates, 12 foundations, 12 apostles, 12 thousand furlongs.  12 x 12 = 144

[frienduff thaylorde]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Please, allow me to assist you here. You need to read more closely:

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Please tell us, do you read "day of the Lord" here? I don't. I read His "coming" and "our gathering," which matches 1 Thes. 4. He comes, the dead in Christ rise, then those alive in in Christ rise, and TOGETHER we are caught up to Him in the clouds.  This is the THEME of this passage: coming and gathering. 

What comes first - and there is only one thing that comes first - is THE apostasia or departing. Then, AFTER the departing, which will be the one restraining taken out of the way, THEN (and only then) will the man of sin be revealed. "and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;" Please tell us, how do you get Jesus out of this phrase?  It is the man of sin that will be revealed AFTER the departing of the church. Try dumping all preconceptions and then  reading it slowing over and over and over. 

Your preconceived theory is showing through: that The Day of the Lord is another way of saying "rapture." You are mistaken. Go back to the Old Testament and read ever scripture about the Day of the Lord. 

His coming , our gathering unto Him and The laying down of wrath.     ALL A ONE TIME EVENT . 

The coming of the Lord is a one time event .     Men , I know they teach otherwise.  

 

[Steve_S]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Yes, in fact, there IS a context: the very theme of Paul's passage: His coming and the gathering of the saints. When the rapture takes place, will there be a significant "departing?" You know there will.

That is not a localized or even broad context, though. That is taking a predetermined assumption and inserting it as context, instead of the scripture speaking for itself. Apostasia is used two times in the new testament and four times in the septuagint. This is the only time where anyone claims it means "departing" and it's because a developed theological assumption requires it.

[simplejeff]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

When the rapture takes place, will there be a significant "departing?" You know there will.

Not likely.   Even if it (so-called 'rapture')  is true as you think,  not many - hardly anyone will notice.